The start button or lack of was a failure as MS thought at the time to standardize the UI to work from the lowest phone to some copy of windows DC running on serious iron. The problem was they never gave an option so if they'd of given a tick box of old UI or new UI people would of ticked what they'd of liked and none of the crapfest would of happened.

MS did listen when it got released and the execs who ordered it got the royal order of the boot so thats why we have what we have now which is much better.

MS has learned as it spent ages on the win 10 beta and took a metric crapton of opinions so theres one thing you can say if theres a fact you don't like its probably that more beta testers liked it than hated it.

The Start button is a good way of opening a program that's not on the desktop without having to go to another screen. Not everything needs to be removed. Some things only need improved and not taken away. 8.1 had a tablet feel to it. Microsoft should have made two versions. It's good that the Start menu has come back.

It's back because MS were getting a load of grief from befuddled Windows users who didn't know how to access files and programmes without it. It's return is a commercial decision.

There isn't a start button on a Mac but I don't notice Mac users (myself included) complaining about the lack of said button.

I'm regularly reminded of this quote from Charles Babbage in 1864:

And here we see an example of the kind of arrogance that got Microsoft into the Windows 8 mess in the first place.

Yes, its return is a commercial decision, driven by the wishes of Microsoft's customers. That's a Good Thing.

Whilst the problems may be caused by user error the best software minimises user error. Something like an operating system should be simple to use for less advanced users but also allow advanced users to do more if they require it.

I use Classic Shell on W7. The reason is that I prefer it, that does not mean I can't adapt to change just that I will take what I feel to be the best from the past and the present and I don't accept that change is always for the better.

ive used it for some time on win7 and know of others who've put classic shell on win10. its all each to their own, i suppose

Yep. It's always best to listen to your customers and ask them what they like/don't like in order to try and keep them happy. Never do anything that you'll assume that they'll like.

The fact so many of us are still not quite tempted to upgrade to W10 permanently suggests they're still not listening to their customers. I've moved up to every major Windows version since W95 (even Vista) but have stopped at W7 after the debacle over the interface in W8.

It's not even difficult to resolve the bigger issues, just give the users simple control of what their computers are doing without the need for hacks or third party mods. Most people won't bother with the settings and will be happy to put up with whatever M$ default with, but there's a significant number of 'advanced' users who don't want to be dictated to.

M$ really are a mess in recent years. The negative feedback causes even novice users who otherwise wouldn't know about the issues to also become wary and reluctant to upgrade because 'it breaks everything and you have no privacy'.

It says it all when my dad won't let me upgrade his W8 PC to W10 due to all the negative feedback on the internet. Someone who barely knows how to use a computer. Until he gets the green light from the internet community (wherever he happens to be getting his info) I'm not touching it. Wouldn't be worth the hassle if I 'broke' his PC by upgrading to W10.

This all stems from the bad experience of W8 with the UI changes. M$ lost a lot of trust when they removed the familiarity of an interface that had been around 'forever'. So when issues are still reported with W10 normal people are put off.

No one volunteers for a second kick in the balls.

The problem here is you are being swayed by internet opinion. People post to say they have problems but rarely post to say things are fine. Believing the internet is like believing the news in the tabloids.

For the vast majority the upgrade has been fine. I have done over 30 pcs without any significant issues that could not be sorted (in one case I had to clean install).

The safe way to upgrade is to make an image backup of your current pc, then install Windows 10 (preferably a clean install), try it and if problems you can revert.

I don't find anything compelling in W10 over W7 to risk the hassle, regardless of the truth.

It will probably be hardware changes that force my hand but for now I'm happy with my current PC and W7.

Guys can you advise please?
If I get a new Dell desktop and want to imemdietly replace the hard drive with an SSD with a fresh (non Dell branded OS) then all I need do is install SSD, install fresh ISO of Win10 and it'll activate OK because that machine was already licenced as W10 activation is hardware ID based or is there anything else to do?

Am I right in thinking W10 computers don't come with a COA sticker on them?

I recently acquired a W8 laptop with failed drive, I installed a new SSD and loaded W10 and it activated fine without me entering anything (and there was no w8 COA sticker on the machine)

This is me exactly. It's all very well to say that there are usually no problems upgrading (though some people do have them) but there are no problems for me with W7 so why upgrade?

It would be different if W7 security updates were ending next year but they're not.

Windows 10 is better.

For a new machine, I would do the following. The duplication and precautions might only be necessary in case of problems much later or before passing the machine on to someone else.

1. Make a note of the exact Windows version supplied. eg W8.1 Home x64 and Install Language, say, English-GB
Belarc Advisor will show this.

2. Make a note of all numbers on packaging and any labels on the machine or in the battery compartment.
Put Scotch Tape over any important labels where information might get rubbed off in time.

3. Check the machine is showing as Activated via Control Panel > System.
Use Advanced Tokens Manager to display and backup what it thinks the License Key is.

4. Use Double Driver to backup all MS and 3rd Party drivers.

5. Download latest W10 iso file. Make DVD or USB Flash, as you prefer.

6 Use Macrium Reflect Free or Easeus Todo Free to make a full System Image Backup of all Main Drive Partitions.
Verify the Image.
Make and Test Macrium/Easeus Recovery WinPE CD/DVD.

7. Copy the backups and Image to an additional location, if possible.


Now you can do whatever you want since you will always have recovery routes in case of problems.

Why?

This is a genuine question so I'm not arguing and if you can give a good reason for upgrading then I will.

For my home PC I use it for internet banking and shopping etc, to surf the internet and email, I also use it to "listen to the radio". This all works fine so what do I gain by upgrading other than getting rid of the annoying prompts?

Not going to quote everybody who asked, but I mentioned bugs & lack of functionality.

Well for a start, a recent bug I discovered after the latest updates - errors popping up when opening Group Policy Editor. Also, ironically, one of my systems point blank refuses to install one of the updates and as a consequence will no longer update at all - wish I knew how to replicate THAT!

I'd also consider forced botched driver updates to be a bug. Yes, the botched drivers aren't Microsoft or Windows 10's fault, but forcing them to install is Windows 10's fault and the only way to stop them is to first uninstall them and then run a tool to block them from reinstalling. A novice user is not going to know how to do this. One example of a botched driver that I've seen often and indeed experienced myself is a faulty Synaptic Touchpad driver - it either breaks functionality (in my case, loses scroll capabilites) or in some cases stops working altogether.

As for lack of functionality - A lot of that is tied to the same issues Windows 8/8.1 had, namely that the so-called "Modern UI" is hopeless, particularly the horrible Settings app, which is just a mis-mash of new vs old settings via links and stuff buried in odd places. They've had all this time to fix it and still failed miserably. Some basic configuration options (ie. Printer settings) have to be done via the old Control Panel, despite there being a similar less-functional option in the Settings app. They don't even make that easy to access for non-savvy users.

As for Windows 10 specific lack of functionality - tell me how to turn off Windows Update without breaking modern apps? Hint: Microsoft have gone out of their way to make this practically impossible for those of us not on WiFi. I need a system running 24/7 without forcing mandatory restarts by schedule. I should be able to update when I'm good and ready and not when Microsoft dictate that I should be.

As for still using Classic Shell on 8.1 - well 8.1 wouldn't be very usable without it, the Start Screen is a joke. 8.1 may have horrible UI decisions, but under the hood it is a much sleaker more optimised OS than Windows 7 and with Classic Shell it's actually quite nice to use. Windows 10 too has many improvements, including UI improvements, but the lingering problems mean that I maintain my view, that this glorified Beta OS is not ready yet!

Thanks for the detailed response, very much appreciated.

But other than all those absolutely genuine comments and issues, Windows 10 is still better right?

How anyone can honestly say how it's superior compared to W7 overlooks these terrible UI issues, 2 distinct operating system UI's have been mashed together here, as a beta it's pretty good, as a final release it should be a bit of an embarrasment for MS.

I don't mind it now I've learnt the quirks but do feel for those that want a consumer product that's polished rather than slight mishmash we've got here.

Are you kidding? Everything about the commercial software product "Windows" is a commercial decision. If you are selling a product to people, it makes sense to make it a product that the majority wants. The majority of people want the Start button - that's the end of the story. You're trying to make an argument where none exists. If you don't personally like the Start button - tough luck. The majority's preference is what matters in business.

Windows 10 uses much less power. Noticeably so. And because the processor isn't making the fan spin up all the time the battery lasts longer still. And when I want to do some heavy lifting, like Photoshop or Premiere Pro, it goes like the clappers and gets the job done. It seems to have much better control over my dual graphics cards too.

You may have gathered that I'm using a laptop. If you use a desktop PC your mileage may vary, but I've been quite impressed with Windows 10. It's like having a new, leaner, more powerful laptop.

It is possible to stop updates for W10 Pro via gpedit.msc, but all it does is require a prompt to be clicked before continuing. It's not very satisfactory. ie You still have to use the Hide Updates Tool as well.

(I can't use the latest Synaptics driver either on my main laptop, I get BSODs)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fksnplyral...41.41.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4jdmlhpfn...54.21.png?dl=0


If gpedit is broken since latest updates, do a System Restore to before then.

You did remember to re-enable System Restore didn't you? It's Off by default now and turned off again when you are not looking

I wonder how many of those users will think it's a good thing that support for Windows 7 & 8.1 will cease in the next 18 months for all those using the OS with a Skylake CPU?

If you think the 'start button' was restored because a group of customers wished it you are living in cloud cuckoo land. It was pressure from the manufacturers of PC's that changed the game i.e. their bottom line was hurting due to a small but vociferous anti-W8 campaign by tech journalists, plus Enterprise said it would never work with much of their bespoke software.

I don't think I've ever said I don't like the start button - unless you know different? I have said Mac owners use their computers without one and it doesn't seem to be a problem. Perhaps that makes Mac users brighter - I don't know, what do you think?

I would like to see the source for your assertion that the 'majority' of Windows users want the Start button. Last figures I saw were 1.5 billion users worldwide - I certainly haven't been asked my views (officially) on the Start button, have you?