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Old 07-09-2015, 12:46
oilman
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I have still got 2 machines running XP, basically because of its incredibly good reliability. I have just retired one of them and it will be my backup, the other still works 24/7 running an online radio station, its never gone off air unintentionally at any time in the 18 months its been running, although I've restarted a couple of times after upgrading some of the software. XP is still an excellent system if you are only running legacy software and the machine will run until it runs into hardware problems.
Fundamentally, this is the whole point about upgrading or not.

If 7, Vista etc. meets your needs, and your needs do not change, then upgrading for the sake of it is pointless.

However, people should be under no illusion, 7 etc are in a technological cul-de-sac.

10 is not just about what it does now, but what it will be able to do in the future.

If you want to embrace the (Windows) future, then 10 is the way forward. Sure 10 is not perfect yet, but it is evolving - eventually 10 will be replaced with something else, but that new product will only arise out of stimulating imagination. Sticking with 7 etc. does not encourage that.
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:56
Superwomble
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Fundamentally, this is the whole point about upgrading or not.

If 7, Vista etc. meets your needs, and your needs do not change, then upgrading for the sake of it is pointless.

However, people should be under no illusion, 7 etc are in a technological cul-de-sac.

10 is not just about what it does now, but what it will be able to do in the future.

If you want to embrace the (Windows) future, then 10 is the way forward. Sure 10 is not perfect yet, but it is evolving - eventually 10 will be replaced with something else, but that new product will only arise out of stimulating imagination. Sticking with 7 etc. does not encourage that.
Well I will stick with 7 on my main pc, until I do a hardware upgrade, my experience of having 10 on it was not good. 7 is supported for a few years yet, and I take your point but even 10 will have a limited lifespan. 7 works and works well and reliably on my system.
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Old 07-09-2015, 13:39
oilman
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Well I will stick with 7 on my main pc, until I do a hardware upgrade, my experience of having 10 on it was not good. 7 is supported for a few years yet, and I take your point but even 10 will have a limited lifespan. 7 works and works well and reliably on my system.
Horses for courses.
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Old 07-09-2015, 14:24
Grumpy_Alan
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... but even 10 will have a limited lifespan. ...

But, isn't the whole point about Win10 that it will always be Win 10 with updates and tweaks as and when needed. As MS have said, (in various techie outlets), there will never be a Win 11.
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Old 07-09-2015, 14:52
oilman
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But, isn't the whole point about Win10 that it will always be Win 10 with updates and tweaks as and when needed. As MS have said, (in various techie outlets), there will never be a Win 11.
For Windows you are correct, but its an absolute certainty that something will replace Windows completely (provided mankind does not stagnate or regress as a species).

eg I could imagine a holographic computer/interface (not that imaginative really - just watch Agents of Shield).
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Old 07-09-2015, 14:56
oilman
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But, isn't the whole point about Win10 that it will always be Win 10 with updates and tweaks as and when needed. As MS have said, (in various techie outlets), there will never be a Win 11.
For Windows you are correct, but its an absolute certainty that something will replace Windows completely (provided mankind does not stagnate or regress as a species).

eg I could imagine a holographic computer/interface (not that imaginative really - just watch Agents of Shield). This may seem far fetched now but many Star Trek ideas are now facts 100 years earlier (tablets, mobile phones, medical diagnostic tools etc).
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Old 07-09-2015, 15:14
hyperstarsponge
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Upgrading Windows 7 starter to the free Windows 10 home is a great idea, As you couldn't do a lot on that anyway as it was a cut down Windows 7 home edition. You couldn't even change the desktop background on that if I remember it right.
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Old 07-09-2015, 15:43
Superwomble
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Upgrading Windows 7 starter to the free Windows 10 home is a great idea, As you couldn't do a lot on that anyway as it was a cut down Windows 7 home edition. You couldn't even change the desktop background on that if I remember it right.
True, but it didnt really bother me, as I was only using it for my diary, and to run some legacy software. I wanted to do it to see how Windows 10 performs on a far simpler system than my main pc, and it does seem to have worked well. The only thing that doesnt work is my screen brightness control, and as the old Samsung software would drop screen brightness when I didnt want it to, its actually a blessing in disguise as far as I am concerned.
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Old 07-09-2015, 16:25
alanwarwic
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It is 10 that is the cul-de-sac. With 7 its yours to do what you want with, with 10, if you do something that stifles MS profits, they will simply nuke it.
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Old 07-09-2015, 16:32
oilman
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It is 10 that is the cul-de-sac. With 7 its yours to do what you want with, with 10, if you do something that stifles MS profits, they will simply nuke it.
Believe what you want - I defend your right to do so.
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Old 07-09-2015, 16:43
alanwarwic
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7 -user can do as user please. 10 - user can do until MS says otherwise.

It is part of the user agreement, no belief system is needed.
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Old 07-09-2015, 17:00
call100
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Luckily you don't use it........So I'm not understanding exactly why you are constantly moaning about it.
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Old 07-09-2015, 18:07
noise747
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It is 10 that is the cul-de-sac. With 7 its yours to do what you want with, with 10, if you do something that stifles MS profits, they will simply nuke it.
They could do it with Windows 7 if they want to or in fact any version of Windows that is connected to the net.
Like if they really get fed up of XP hanging around they could in theory send a bit of code to Window XP machines to make then stop working.


I did say in theory, in practice I doubt it would happen.
windows 7 was fine to be honest, before all this MS account connection thing came about.
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Old 07-09-2015, 19:09
WhatJoeThinks
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I have Windows 10, but I don't have any 'MS account connection'.
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Old 07-09-2015, 19:43
hyperstarsponge
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I have Windows 10, but I don't have any 'MS account connection'.
They think Windows 10 has no local account option.
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Old 07-09-2015, 20:02
oilman
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That's why I'm waiting for some clever bod to errrr ummm produce the stand-alone full install and try that out on a separate hard drive.
You can install it easily - the full install media exists. Of course it will not activate.
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Old 07-09-2015, 20:10
oilman
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They think Windows 10 has no local account option.
Use google but do not login to a google account - cannot get full range of google benefits.

Use Windows 10 but do not login to MS account - cannot get full range of MS benefits.

Hmmmm.....



Actually I use a local account as I cannot be arsed to use passwords. I could not get the methods to login to MS using login credentials to work but tbh I never tried that hard.
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Old 07-09-2015, 20:40
alanwarwic
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This is part example of what could happen.
http://m.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne...efox-or-chrome

Similarly, long term, if you use something non Microsoft, there is nothing stopping MS nagging you to death. More likely regular updates will cat and mouse like hinder 3rd party competitors.
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Old 07-09-2015, 21:04
noise747
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I have Windows 10, but I don't have any 'MS account connection'.
They think Windows 10 has no local account option.
The problem is Windows 10 and Windows 8 for that matter push you into connecting it to a MS account and many people will think they have no choice.
My next door neighbours soon gfot himself a nice little Asus laptop yesterday and setting it up, the bit about not having to use a MS account was hidden.

You install Windows 8 and 10 from scratch and you have to go through multiple clicks to go for a local account. That should not be, it should be on the same screen as where you are asked to put in your MS account username and password.
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Old 08-09-2015, 02:08
WhatJoeThinks
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Use google but do not login to a google account - cannot get full range of google benefits.

Use Windows 10 but do not login to MS account - cannot get full range of MS benefits.

Hmmmm.....

Actually I use a local account as I cannot be arsed to use passwords. I could not get the methods to login to MS using login credentials to work but tbh I never tried that hard.
Visit the library but do not hold a library card - cannot borrow library books.

Living in the UK but not on the electoral register - cannot vote.

You seem to have made your choices. Your point escapes me.

This is part example of what could happen.
http://m.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne...efox-or-chrome


Similarly, long term, if you use something non Microsoft, there is nothing stopping MS nagging you to death. More likely regular updates will cat and mouse like hinder 3rd party competitors.
Microsoft might offer you their products and services?! ..Seriously though, did you post the wrong link?

As for them 'nagging you to death', that doesn't strike me as good business acumen, but I suppose time will tell.

The problem is Windows 10 and Windows 8 for that matter push you into connecting it to a MS account and many people will think they have no choice.
My next door neighbours soon gfot himself a nice little Asus laptop yesterday and setting it up, the bit about not having to use a MS account was hidden.

You install Windows 8 and 10 from scratch and you have to go through multiple clicks to go for a local account. That should not be, it should be on the same screen as where you are asked to put in your MS account username and password.
I have no memory of being 'pushed' into connecting Windows 10 to a MS account, or of struggling to opt out of anything. I'm used to installers prompting me to install additional software, change my default browser, etc. and I simply untick all of the options. I didn't install W10 from scratch though, I just upgraded from W7, with no difficulty.
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Old 08-09-2015, 11:24
Javier_deVivre
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Back when Windows 10 was released I created a Windows 10 Pro installation DVD using the tools posted on here.

I have now upgraded to Windows 10 Pro for 8.1Pro using 'Get Windows 10', will that DVD act as a reset disk and allow me to reset W10 to factory conditions without needing to input product keys?
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Old 08-09-2015, 11:28
TheBigM
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Back when Windows 10 was released I created a Windows 10 Pro installation DVD using the tools posted on here.

I have now upgraded to Windows 10 Pro for 8.1Pro using 'Get Windows 10', will that DVD act as a reset disk and allow me to reset W10 to factory conditions without needing to input product keys?
Activation won't be an issue as it is tied to the hardware and then stored in MS servers.

But you don't even need to use that DVD - windows has built-in refresh and reset options you can use.
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Old 08-09-2015, 12:24
oilman
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Activation won't be an issue as it is tied to the hardware and then stored in MS servers.

But you don't even need to use that DVD - windows has built-in refresh and reset options you can use.
Just some caveats to add:

One problem that is frequently encountered is that people do a clean install using a downloaded iso from MS but then find things don't work due to missing drivers.

Many find out too late their PC uses special 3rd party drivers not included in release iso (tablets especially).

Really, you should only do a clean install if you are getting issues, or you have malware/virus issues not easy to clean up.

I have posted this link about exporting 3rd party drivers before, but once you have upgraded (in fact before is even better), follow this guide. Don't think it works on 7 but not sure. Works on 8/10.

http://woshub.com/how-to-export-driv...indows-8-1-u1/

The other good plan is to make a full system image backup everytime just before you make major changes, using Macrium Reflect Free or similar.
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Old 08-09-2015, 12:35
IvanIV
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Having a recovery image for each of one's Windows devices is the least one can do even without too much knowledge or expertise. Create it on USB stick, label it, possibly create a copy, put somewhere safe. Even if you have to clean install from a generic ISO, using the USB recovery stick to reset the device will bring back all individual settings and drivers.
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Old 08-09-2015, 13:03
oilman
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Having a recovery image for each of one's Windows devices is the least one can do even without too much knowledge or expertise. Create it on USB stick, label it, possibly create a copy, put somewhere safe. Even if you have to clean install from a generic ISO, using the USB recovery stick to reset the device will bring back all individual settings and drivers.
Agreed - even more important for tablet/hybrids upgrades with the 8.1+Bing OS as these are special versions not available to public. The standard 8.1 generic iso does not work on these devices (unless you buy a new licence).

Also make sure you have a note of your install keys.
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