Yes, I can't draw many conclusions just yet. Over the weeks, some of the possibilites will probably become more likely, while others may be discarded.

It's hard to tell yet as it's early days, but it's obvious now that there's a story arc going on now, so loads of clues are going to be littered all over the place, so we can hold on to some possibilities, and reject others.

I'm enjoying this whodunnit element to the series. And it's only just past 3 episodes. 10 more to go. Lots can happen.

On the subject of the mysterious actions of CE, I'm sure he lied to Rose. He said that Gwen was dead as soon as she walked under the arch, this was clearly not the case.

I'm wondering if these gas based aliens come back in Episodes 9 and 10.
Because gas mask wearing zombies are supposed to feature in one particular episode set during the Blitz.
And the Blitz episodes are a two-parter. Episodes 9 and 10.

I think it shows he was desperate to make amends to the Gelth for his actions during the war, even if it meant sacrificing someone to save them. (The needs of the many etc.)
Last edited by DenWatts : 10-04-2005 at 18:13

I was wondering that myself.
I know he checked for a pulse on her neck,..but when he told Rose that she was probably dead as soon as Gwen became a conduit,..it just sort of sounded as though he was trying to convince himself more than Rose.

It's not the only time so far that i think that the Doctor has been trying to believe in a version of the truth that he would like to believe.
Back in episode one I got the sense that he was in denial to his involvement in the destruction of the Nesetene Consciousness' homeworld.
It's like when somebody is desperate, they will believe what they want to believe, try to justify their own actions and try to blank out their own conscience telling them they've done wrong.

There was a point where he asked Gwen if she was sure about what she was doing, but he didn't really seem as though he wanted her to change her mind and accepted her first answer in an instant and was out of the room before she'd hardly said anything.
It was like "Okay, bye, thanks, seeya".

Absolutely - he desperately wanted to help the Gelth whatever the cost.

I've been reading this thread on and off for most of the day and finally got to the end of it, so far...

Many thanks for all your thoughts, it is making watching the series more enjoyable when others point things out, Alrightmate seems to have a lot to say, although I agree with most of what is said

Here's my thoughts on why I think the Doctor is not WHO he apears to be...
[list][*]No regeneration at the start, maybe because CE is not the Doctor?[*]Jabe in episode 2 seemed to understand CE - a little too much, so he waited so long in the wind tunnel that he kept looking back until she burned![*]The maid was reading Rose's mind when all of a sudden she said "Big Bad Wolf", and thou and behold CE was on the scene![*]"Bad Wolf" painted on the TARDIS in next weeks episode![*]Lots of references to CE "Who are you?".[*]Also I've heard the BBC never intended CE to last beyond the first series. Why would they waste another regeneration, knowing it would upset loyal Dr Who fans?[/list]I still miss the cliff-hanger and feel they are cramming too much into one episode, however with these continuing war and "Bad Wolf" themes it does make one want to watch the next one (and watch the episode again to see if you've missed any plots/hints).

Again, I absolutely agree. Although he says he tried and nothing could have been done [to change what happened] he is saying that more to convince himself than to convince others. He's feeling a hell of a lot of guilt, and at the moment he hasn't got a clue how to put things right.

(We need Rose to help him work that out, later in the series I think).

It's this guilt, coupled with the enormity of what has actually happened, that is clouding his judgement and leading him to make mistakes.

Maybe this doctor isnt the finished article yet?

Because of the *time wars *etc ,maybe he couldnt fully regenerate
due to the loss of his homeplanet ?
AND the doctor we are seeing is not complete yet ?

Or maybe hes a clone built by the daleks ? and the real doctor is being held hostage or something ?
and eventually the 2 meet up .....

Oh well i will watch it again at 7 on bbc3 and see if
i can make any more sense on it lol !

Yes perhaps he's really the 'new master' and needs Rose's confidence to attempt to destroy the 'real' Dr??

Nicola xx

Yes, Alrightmate suggested something along these lines in the thread for last week's episode, when he mentioned a possible 'Watcher' scenario.

(See? I was paying attention )

As someone mentioned, can't see them spending a whole series building up interest in the show only to reveal CE isn't the Doctor afterall. The criticism could ruin future plans.

On a slightly off topic subject: Was there ever an episode which featured multiple Doctors (ie. not regeneration eps, but some of the different actors)?

For some reason I think there was and my search for info has been fruitless so far.

Yes, many stories where he crossed his own timeline and met up with his previous selves. The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors etc etc. etc. They even had an Eight Doctors story in the novels.

Nothing wrong with your assumptions, but I can't see RTD spending a whole series introducing us to the doctor only for us to find out it isn't. The same argument applies if it is the doctor, but he is "bad". I don't think a new audience would "get" "the twist", and it would mean the next series we would have to start all over again getting to know the "real" doctor .... as much as the "bad wolf" thing intrigues me I'm not buying the fact the doctor is not the doctor idea.

Cheers, but was actually referring to tv stories, when multiple actors were on screen together. The Five Doctors rings a bell.....

My thoughts entirely.

All of those were on-screen adventures with the exception of the Eight Doctors (obviously).

The Three Doctors featured Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee.

The Five Doctors were the above three along with T.Baker and Davidson (Richard Hurndall replaced Hartnell as he'd died by this time).

Oh, and the Two Doctors featured C.Baker and Troughton.

Remember, vaguely, seeing the Five Doctors as a kid. Will have to track down the others sometime.

Sat watching the repeat, trying to peice together links, and the housekeeper is the same person that played Rufalo (or however it was spelt) the plumber in last weeks episode!

there was at least 2, the three doctors (the first three docs) and the five doctors (first five docs, original William hartnel was replaced with a look alike)

Raffalo in "The End of the World" was played by Beccy Armory, where-as Gwyneth in "The Unquiet Dead" was played by Eve Myles, so they weren't the same actress.

It wont be the first time in DW history that someone has done this, there is no info of any use on the later actress could it be an AKA compare the chat with Rose and Raffalo and the Chat with Gwyneth they are practically identical, look at the look when they thank rose. I could be way off, but who knows! Just a suspicion

altohugh people are saying he didn't regenerate in the first episode (Rose) he looks in a mirror before he gets attacked by the arm and says "not bad apart from the ears" this meant to me regeneration its just we didn't see it so we could become fully attached to the new Doctor straight away

This is true.
It could be a risk.

But I myself didn't just say that he might not be the real Doctor. I offfered up a couple of alternatives.
1)He is the real Doctor.
2)He is not the real Doctor
3)He is the real Doctor AND The Master. I.E, they could possibly be one and the same person. The Master is The Doctor in a future incarnation.
4)He is The Doctor in a later regeneration who has come back to this timeline.
5)He is The Doctor, but he is the kind of Doctor who becomes evil, or wrong, or bad, or a mistake,.....much like the Doctor that Colin Baker played that needed to be "killed" and replaced with the Sylvester McCoy Doctor in the novels.
This wasn't how it was described in the television version of events, but it was described as such in the novels. So it could work.

Ideas from the novels are already being borrowed, and the writers for the series would have gotten together to brainstorm ideas.

Science Fiction needs to allow the audience to take a leap of faith, and cannot play too safe. You always run the risk of losing viewers, whatever you do. You have to inject new energy into something from time to time, so that the audience can be wowed, and experience awe and wonder.

But Russell T Davies is a writer who's known to take risks with his stories.
There was a storm to ride after "Queer as Folk".

And Chris Eccleston is leaving anyway. So whatever happened, there was always going to be a new Doctor that the public would need to accept.

And as for new fans accepting such a twist,..well by the end of the series most people won't be new fans anymore.
It was always the start of the franchise that was the real hurdle. It looks like the show has got the viewers it needs. By the end of the series it should be okay to try some ideas out that the audience may not have accepted right at the start.
By the end of the series, you'd expect most people who enjoy the show will be involved enough with the Doctor Who universe, and will have the intelligence to accept daring ideas.
If they lose a few viewers to ITV, then maybe they are better off watching ITV and allow the people who enjoy Doctor Who to let the writers surprise us and keep us interested, as opposed to playing safe all the time because they are too scared to lose viewers.

There looked to be trouble when it was revealed that Chris Eccleston was leaving. All it took was one episode of Doctor Who the following week and everybody calmed down and enjoyed the show again.
No matter how you look at it, they are going to change to a new actor after Chris Eccleston at the end of this run. So the risk would be there anyway. They may as well make the changeover interesting, and a way of using Chris's relatively short stint as the Doctor as part of a story.

Viewers will already be wondering what the show will be like in the future with a new actor in the title role. If they were hooked in and thoroughly enjoyed the previous 13 episodes, then I doubt that people will dwell on the past too much and criticise what they already enjoyed for the previous 3 months. They will be more concerned about the future and hoping it will be as entertaining.

Any controversy over a radical storyline is probably going to cause a lot of people talking about the show. Much like they have been over the last 2 weeks when Chris was revealed to have left the role behind.

It's apparent now that they have a story arc developing. So whatever they are doing, it's not going to be like Bobby Ewing appearing out of the shower,..it's an ongoing story.
If it is written well, then it can be created in a way to make perfect sense, and won't come across as a weak cop out. It will be as a consequence of a carefully constructed well developed storyline.
It would depend on the skill of the writers to make any ideas work I suppose.

I'd say that the show would need to have some sort of climax, as this whole series has a long story arc to it, and we know that Chris is leaving after the final episode. So if it just ended conventionally, you could say that an end like that might be risk, and the viewers may say "Is that it?...The way this series is constructed looks like it's building up to something climactic, so something like a mystery with a twist at the end revealed to us is possibly going to be more readily accepted.

I was never a Dr Who fan, but this new series has captivated me.
Finally something actually worth watching on a Saturday night again.

When you can't think of anything new, go back to the trusty greats.
{Note to BBC:- Give Noel's House Party a chance again sometime soon, please!}