All I know that this Doctor is not like previous incarnations - apart from the sixth maybe. He seems to have very little regard for people. For instance, when he blew up the department store in the first episode, he didn't seem bothered about the passers by who may get injured or killed; having said that, when it came to the Nestene Consciousness, he didn't want to kill it, he wanted to give it a chance first. He also seemed pretty determined to take Rose with him, even though he knew the dangers she would face; for some reason, he needs her.

In the second episode, although she was the villain of the piece (like the Nestene was) he made no attempt to help her and he almost looked like he enjoyed watching Cassandra die.

In the third, he pretty much (in my opinion) sacrificed Gwenyth to save the Earth from what was pretty much HIS mistake. He was too easily duped by the gas people (forgot their names!).

This Doctor is too full of himself, makes mistakes, has no regard for other people and seems to be verging on insanity.

Really enjoying the new series and this forum!

I have a headache now!!!!!

Fascinating all this speculation is, can we just not enjoy the return of Dr. Who for what it is and stop trying to be a bunch of clever clogs and second guess just what exactly RTD intended/wanted/thinks/actually has done with Dr. Who.

Has any one considered the fact that RTD has pruposely put in really daft references to get the obsessive fan going insane, whilst surely he realises that thay are never going to be enough to keep interest and viewers to compete on a Saturday night and as many of these specualtions refer to novels that noone is officially trying to plug, I have not seen any mention after a programme about enjoying the Dr's. previous adventures in this fine range of books, the only reference in any build up was to the radio shows with Peter Davidson.

As has been mentioned if CE isn't the Doctor, one heck of a lot MORE viewers are gonna be very p****d orf at all the hype to be told 'haha, after all the fuss and stuff and nonsense and lots of hype, its a con, the REAL new doctor can bee seen from Autumn next year'.... Michael Grade could only have dreamt of thinking of that way of killing Dr. Who off.

All these clever references to Bad Wolf/Wolves or Big Bad Wolf... OK very clever but has anyone considered that it could be a private 'joke' amongst the crew and writers. Heck they may be lurking here now and laughing their heads off cos so many people are speculating about a silly reference they stuck in cos some clipboard clutcher's second cousin was in a band called 'whatever'

I am sorry but in tv today there is no way there will be such subtle references left fermenting for anything more than two episodes and ceratinly only reffering once in each episode. IF there is going to be any great revelation it is going to have to be flagged up one heck of a lot more than Jabe's fascination in episode 2 and Big Bad Wolf in episode 3, noone can get away with that....

Why doesn't Micheal Grade want Dr Who?? It's getting amazing reviews and ratings

Because he was the one that axed it in the first place!!

I think he's the one that cancelled the series back in the 80's when he was controller of BBC1 - or something like that; I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I saw the Sunday repeat and it was in there.
x

Oh right in fairness the McCoy was pretty weak

<waiting for all the Whovians to jump down my throat>

Um...Buffy managed it very successfully...


Um...Buffy managed it very successfully - that show skillfully integrated huge story arcs with massive cliffhangers, plus subtle signposts to future events - eg the Buffy/Faith dream Dawn references.

I'm thinking, with every episode so far mentioning the 'bad wolf', that this is a metaphor for death, and if Rose has seen the 'bad wolf' then could it be in the upcoming episode...

Hi jimbo_bob - like your analysis of the series so far but personally don't buy your conclusions.


I think you reading too much into his actions. He knew the store was empty and as the news reports stated there were no injuries so he must have known there were no real risks. Also, plenty of other episodes in the past have had situations like this whereby people could have got hurt from destroying the enemy.

No different from any of the other companions. Also at the end of ep 2 he gives her the choice of staying home. Although I have a feeling there is more to Rose than meets the eye.

Hmm - difficult one. Don't think he enjoyed it but i think after the deaths she caused and the fact that she had existed beyond her time he felt compelled to let her die. She became a victim of her own crime. He's killed or let the villains die before - no different to the other doctors.

He said she died when she entered the arch. At that time everyone was trying to help the Gelf and didn't know their true intensions. To say he sacrificed her is a bit harsh. She had been in contact with them all her life and wanted to help her so called 'little angels'. He even said to her 'you don't have to do this'. Again, this has happened in previous Doctor whos as well. Adric (one of the 5th doctors companions) dies helping to get rid of the cybermen. The doctor then refuses to go back in time to save him.

I don't think he's verging on insanity, and as for being full of himself - all the doctors have! Remember Tom Baker and even Jon Pertwee years- the doctor was really, really full of himself. That is part of the fun!

My personal view is that the War has had an effect on him (in episode 1 he says he fought in the war and tries 'to help them, but couldn't'). But i don't think its made him anymore reckless or 'insane' as any of the other doctors. I think the mistakes he made in episode 3 were more related to the war than anything. The gelf say they lost their home due to the war. As being part of the war the doctor tries his best to help - blinded by the gelfs true intensions.

I'm loving it too - best thing on tv for years!

Jim

Excellent episode. After the first weeks scene setter and last weeks weak episode I was fearing for the Doctors shelf life.

This episode puts it right back on track. Scary for the little 'uns, humour for us all. Reasonably good plot if a little simple. Good stuff.

Would like to see a couple of 2 parters though....

Where abouts??

I missed the ref in Ep 1, and have deleted it.

Not gonna jump down your throat but for me McCoy was one of the better Doctors. Once he got out of the comic side of it and settled down he became a much darker character. I like dark, that's why I don't open my curtains.

To be honest, McCoy is the only Dr I truly remember well, apart from Paul McGann because of my age but my whole family who had loved Tom Baker/Peter Davison era stopped watching him and said he was pants, which kind of spoilt it.

No need to wait to long - This Saturday and the following Saturday is a 2 parter

I wouldn't expect you to buy my conclusions 'cos I'm not sure that even I have! I got up a bit earlier than I normally do this morning - Fiancee's gone out to buy her wedding shoes - so I'm not sure whether they're a thought out prognosis of the series so far or the ramblings of a tired man who had to get up really early so his ball and chain to be can spend all his money.

No - he did not cancel it - he told JNT and the production team to go away and sort it out which led to the 18 month break during Colin Bakers time. It came back with The Trial Of A Time Lord and this was followed by the now legendary Good News/Bad News story

Good News - "It's coming back"
Bad News - "We have to recast the Doctor", which led to Sylvester McCoy getting the role.

By the time the original series ended (it was never cancelled) in 1989 Michael Grade was in charge of Channel 4 and had no say.

To a point Grade gets blamed for this but a little unfairly - he did try to save the programme as he realised it's value even though he did not like it, but the production team had completely lost their way.

However they were starting to turn it round by the time of McCoy's last season but it was up against Coronation Street and they could not win. If you see some of the unedited stories (such as Curse Of Fenric) which have been released since it proves the point.

It was just after the Nestene Consciousness revealed the Tardis. The Doctor said something like, "No, no. Oh no...Yes, that's my ship."

Now, I've watched this again and again. If you look at the Consciousness, I'm absolutely certain it mouths 'bad wolf', and if you listen VERY carefully I think you can hear the 'olf' of 'wolf'. The Doctor looks at the 'Police public call box' sign and says "That's not true. I should know, I was there. I fought in the war, it wasn't my fault!"

Now, it's possible I'm wrong, but I find it strange that they would show the Consciousness clearly mouthing something at that point when they didn't anywhere else, although you can clearly hear it say 'Tiiiimme Looord' at one point. Plus if the references are getting more and more obvious then the first one was probably going to be a 'blink and you'll miss it' moment, and that certainly was.

I knew I'd probably got it wrong. Hey ho.

Jim_bob - I pressed the submit button in a bit of premature posting and have amended my post with more detail.

So there is a pattern emerging...if it was just a in joke thought up by the production team then I guess they would have used it once and that was it. The big bad wolf reference has appeared across 3 episodes now so my feeling is it's of some significance.

Thanks Urban Bassman. The thing iis, even after the added bits my comments were still wrong. I really must learn not to say anything until I know what I'm talking about!

It's just part of the fun watching and then speculating as to what could happen next. No-one is really trying to be a clever clogs, as doubt any of us could second guess what RTD has got in store for the rest of the series but the fact it is generating this kind of interest again must be all to the good.

It's back bigger and better than before and people are talking about it, rather than slagging it off as they once did.

I hadn't noticed the Bad Wolf references! How exciting!

A glorious episode, and just the kind of thing to send the kiddoes scurrying behind the sofa (has anyone ever REALLY done that?). The end of the pre-titles sequence, with the dead woman walking up to the camera and screaming, was very extreme for teatime(ish) telly.

Lots of laughs. "What the Shakespeare?!" was a good one, the Sneed struggling to get the lid on the coffin and shouting "We've got another one!"both amd me chuckling.

Gwyneth was a great character, and very likeable. Very sad that she wound up dead but ... really ... how could the Doctor have fallen for it? The Gelth were obviously evil. It seems the Doctor sacrificed Gwyneth.

Rose's wonder and awe is very infectious. Her excitement at stepping into the snow was a lovely moment.

BY THE WAY:
My SkyPlus should be recording DW on a series link, but didn't record Saturdays, so I had to watch the Sunday BBC3 repeat. I mentioned this to a friend, and his SkyPlus missed the first fifteen minutes of the Sat showing. Any thoughts, anyone, or just a coincidence?

chuff.x.

Wasn't my favourite, I'm not as much of a fan of the ones set in that time period to be honest. Its a bit of a cliche and I found the addition of Charles Dickens to be a tiny bit tedious.

On the plus side, it was still humourous, the relationship between the doctor and Rose was still interestign to watch. And the special effects are still spot on the money. I don't think I've seen anything as good as this on British TV in a long time. If you think about it, the FX are as good as those on American shows. Star Trek for example relies on ship externals and make up. Its really easy to do CGI space ships. But CGI monsters and stuff like that is a lot harder to pull of and look convincing.

Dr Who brings the bad guys alive in a way Star Trek hasn't for a very long time.

Dr who also has the advantage of not having to "be friends" with everything like those soppy Americans Every Star Trek ends up with people not being quite as bad as they first seem (the Xindi anyone?).