No I was just playing, although I did consider it a 'revenge' thing for a minute.

I'm almost certain it would be the Master teaming up with the Daleks. It's exactly the sort of thing he would do.

And it not only establishes the two characters as the Doctor's mortal enemies, it establishes why they are.

Daniel Craig or Mark Strong gets my vote.

Was just thinking I bet somewhere in these threads someone is deliciously close to the truth in what they have posted and we don't realise it and won't until the final 3 eps by which time this debate will have long been archived.

Have we strayed way off topic or are our speculations too close to being regarded as spoilers as I don't want to offend those who don't want to know too much...

The Master has been "despatched" on more than one occasion, so there's hope that the Doctor's Nemesis will be back at some point.

The Master was a mainstay of villainy throughout the 70s & 80s; it would be unfair not to bring him back in some way, shape or form.

It really depends on how much "retro continuity" the new DW team wants to include. From reading posts here and at Gallifrey One, there are mixed feelings about whether (as one poster put on GO) too much "baggage" should be carried forward.

IMHO there HAVE to be links back to the "classic" series for the sake of all us oldies (and the younger ones who have fallen in love with the series post cancellation).

RTD knows that many of us are aware that the TARDIS is sentient, that the Doctor can regenerate, that the Daleks are his No. 1 enemies etc. He also has to introduce theses concepts to a new audience.

He also knows that many fans got quite excited at the idea of the Great Cosmic Chess Game that emerged in Doctor #7's final (televised) adventures. Suddenly we were getting a Doctor with a purpose.

Our new Doctor seems to have a purpose but (like #7), it is not clear to us. Yet.

The constant guessing and second guessing over where this new incarnation is taking us is making the series one of the most talked about TV events ever! Forget "Who shot JR" or "Guess the next bastard child of Dirty Den" - this is television history in the making, and we - in our own little way - are a part of it.

I feel privileged to be taking part in these debates. I know they will never feed the world's hungry or find any great cures, but the sheer enthusiasm & sense of fun is exhilarating!

Thanks a lot Guys & Gals (and Multiforms)!

No, you cannot be criticised as 'spoiling' when you are simply voicing an opinion.

If you know something as fact that nobody else does then you're supposed to put spoiler tags around it, or post [spoilers] in the thread title. Then you can post without the tags.

As one of the new people on the forums I don't want to upset the regulars as still getting to grips with what is good form and what isn't. I am enjoying the debates but don't want to alienate myself or spoil it for others either...

Yes, this has been my opinion all along. Nods to the original series for the lifelong fans, snip away at the baggage for everyone else. But we still have to reintroduce concepts for the new audience.

That's why I love this series even more. It's got more layers than a multi-story car park!

We're all enjoying this so I echo those thanks.

Ditto...I pay homage to you all..."with the breath from my body".....

I was going to use that when I added to my last post

Oh - Alrightmate, thanks to you I am now firmly convinced that Bad Wolf is referring to the Tardis.

I have just remembered reading something many years ago bout the Hartnell years.

William Hartnell suggested a story where the Doctor would meet his evil son. The idea was that WH would play both roles.

The idea obviously never took off, but it gives one to think furiously (as Poirot would put it)

With the FX available to the production team, it would be no problem at all to have CE play both parts convincingly.

The Master's chameleon circuit works perfectly - he has used it to imitate the Doctor's TARDIS before.

That way RTD can say that yes, CE is the Doctor, but we don't get to see him until episode **.

Otherwise we could get a delicious Who's Who episode when the Master is re-introduced.

Oh the possibilities, the possibilities!

Yes - maybe the Master has regenerated to look like the Doctor, and disguised his Tardis to look like a police box!

CE IS the Doctor, but everyone is confused because the Master looks like him.

In that way, the Master could slip into Gallifrey and lower the transduction barriers for the Daleks. Neither the Doctor's or the Master's biodata is in the matrix, so they would have difficulty proving he wasn't the Doctor if he simply turned up and said he was..

<claps hands in glee!>

You are way ahead of me...can't keep up. lol!

OK, I'm getting a little excited so let me try and explain it a bit better.

I still stick by everything I said about needing to establish concepts 'we' all take for granted to a whole new audience.

I'm right there with Alrightmate about Bad Wolf referring to the Tardis and not the Doctor - but what if it's referring to both?

We know the Doctor's and the Master's biodata has been removed from the matrix, so both of them would survive if Gallifrey was destroyed.

We need another time-travelling race to be able to defeat the Time Lords, as only a time-travelling race would have the capability.

"The Doctor meets up with someone from his past who he thought was long dead" in a future episode.... since the final two-parter features heavily on the Daleks, and we have to establish both the Daleks and the Master as the main nemeses of the Doctor (we also need a reason why they are).

What better way for the producers to pull all this off with the minimum of fuss than by having the Master and the Daleks team up to destroy Galllifrey?

It's a very 'Master' thing to do - same goes for the Daleks.

The Master, having regenerated to look like the Doctor, is now going round in his own Tardis masquerading as the Doctor. But instead of being a force for good, he's creating chaos.

The Master, looking to all intents and purposes to be the Doctor, slips into Gallifrey with forged ID and is accepted as him. He then lowers the transduction barriers to allow the Daleks to invade. CE could easily play both parts.

And it fits the Bad Wolf story quite nicely.

Have we managed to figure it out?

<cjumping up and down in glee>
Last edited by DenWatts : 12-04-2005 at 16:01

Love it! That is one hell of a theory but a good one at that. I am astonished and amazed that a comment I posted the other day when I picked up on the Big Bad Wolf remark has generated so much debate...think you were one of the first to comment on it too. We may be labelled as conspiracy theorists but I bet someone is pretty close to nailing it....

I think it's pretty damn close from the clues we have so far.

Oh, and I amended it (so far, a dozen times) to flow much better. Poor little typo's... consigned to oblivion
Last edited by DenWatts : 12-04-2005 at 16:07

Who's to say they are? Remember thim isnt lineer &!thy culd be bk @ any m0m4^t?#~_!"

<<<Waits for aka_lucifer to amend his post

Am off out tonight so will look forward to seeing how the debate is going on my return.

So far I am totally hooked on Mr Watts theory...

This is an excellent theory and a perfect explanation of CE's Doctors early regeneration as a returned Galifrey somehow grants the Dr a free regeneration to get away from the Master guise as the Master would obviously escape for future adventures and wouldn't it be neat if CE were to pop up once a series as the Master.

Thinking back to Episode 1, the Dr resuces Rose in the basement and then goes to the roof and blows up the store - at this point the Dr is in CE guise. Latter on in the episode at Roses flat the Dr looks in the mirror an coments on this look and stuff is the line "could have been worse", it was implied that this form of the Dr had been around a while (teh Titanic, JFK etc) but there was also a nod in that bit to regeneration - but it was the same person !. What if the Dr in the flat and the one rose is travelling with is a regenerated Master ?

The Daleks have had rudimentary time travel for quite a while, as have the Sontarens and the Cybermen.

The War Lords also had knock-off TARDISes (SIDRATS).

The Tharils of E-Space we "time sensitives" who could ride the time winds.

And let's not forget the Black & White Guardians of Time.

I'm sure there are more.

One of the self-styled roles of the Timelords was to prevent effective time travel by other races. It was always assumed that other races could not be trusted to obey the First Law of Time (which, interestingly became the Prime Directive of Time in Star Trek - and people accuse DW of being derivative!).

So, either a cartel of time-savvy races (led by the Daleks) have got their cranial cases together and found a way of transcending the time and relative dimension barrier, OR a rogue Timelord has leaked the secret, OR the Doctor was somehow duped into revealing the secret.

Either way the result was a Time War.


Many years ago I submitted a draft to Virgin Books for a Dr Who story. It was called The Time Healer and it involved all (7 at the time) Doctors.

The basic premise was that, because of all the "illegal" time travel, a chronofracture had occurred. Time started leaking all over the place and chaos was ensuing.

The White Guardian calls on the Doctor once again to put things right.

The idea was to create a tidy time line for the Doctor's stories. It meant that some stories "never happened" and opened the door for a whole new set of adventures with a solid canon to work from.

Sadly the idea was rejected (I'm sure a lot of wannabees were submitting at the time - I was just one of them!).

Perhaps part of the "reboot" that RTD has mentioned is to crate a similar situation. Yes, things will return to normal, but it will be a new normal - a template for future stories and a tidier mythos to deal with.

BTW

Den, I love the way you picked up on my concept and ran with it - sheer brilliance!

Thankyou - but do you mean the need for another time travelling race in order to be able to defeat the Timelords?

If so, I posted this in last weeks thread, and I think the first week's thread too. At least, as soon as we knew Gallifrey was destroyed.

But this theory I proposed is using all of the contributions that have been made by everyone on the thread, sifting through and trying to bring them to a logical conclusion, so everyone deserves credit.

Agreed. I've said this might happen all along.

Anyway, after all that excitement, I need a lie down in the zero room!

Shame it was jettisoned.
Last edited by DenWatts : 12-04-2005 at 17:10

What are you basing the specualtion on that the master looks/looked like the doctor?

Sorry to be thick but are you also saying that what we are currently watching is the master (ie the "doctor isn't the doctor" hypothesis)?

Oh, go on then - five more minutes!

Yes, the Daleks had timetravel way back in the Hartnell story "The Chase" so I would think their crude implementation should be much more sophisticated by now.

I think this new series has to deal with the problem of the original canon - it got way too tangled and complicated over the years. I don't want RTD to get rid of too much, but I think he has to simplify it enough to stop things being too confusing for a new generation of viewers.

And your idea for the book sounded a good one - very plausible, and neat. I think it may have probably been a case of getting so many scripts that they couldn't possibly read through them all. A great shame!

I seem to remeber reading that someone wrote one of the books where the timeline did change, and Pertwee didn't end up regenerating because of the Metebelis Three incident, but a completely different story. I should check for plagiarism!

Of course, my theory might end up being be a load of old boll*cks, but I don't think so and I'm happy for someone else to change my thinking.

All adds to the fun.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Not shouting, but trying to stress how much I think we ARE watching the Doctor on screen at the moment.

I believe the Master will be revealed in episode 11 as the person the Doctor thought was long dead. All of his evil shennanigans will have happened off screen, and we get snippets of information as to the Bad Wolf and the Timewar each week until it's pretty much revealed who's behind it. Cue the Master, looking like CE.

Rose is travelling with the real Doctor, and the Master won't appear until episode 11.

Sorry, I was a bit unclear there - I meant the Doctor/Master bit.

who is that blond guy that says "hello doctor, time traveller" doctor replies, what are you talking about.
It was in the trailer that was on Jonathon Ross, is that the new master or a new type of master (no relation)