"Talk to the face....."
Cassandra O'Brian

I can't believe that I actually visited your forum for the first time when I logged on a few hours ago, and that was one of the first threads I had a look at.

But it says nothing about Gallifrey being destroyed at the end of the two parter.
It just says that The Doctor survives a massacre by the Daleks, as told by Chris Eccleston on the radio.

There's nothing about Gallifrey being destroyed there.
I'm not saying that eventually it isn't, but at the moment we don't know this yet.
We don't know what happens to Gallifrey in the final two-parter.
If the Doctor suceeds in whatever he is trying to do right now, then Gallifrey may not be destroyed in the last episode.
And even if he isn't successful, it still doesn't mean Gallifrey is destroyed in the last episode. We don't even know if the battle with the Daleks is the final battle for Gallifrey or anything.

Only 17 hours to go until the next discussion can start

Yes, it's possible.
I haven't read the books, so are there any discrepencies so far?

Ok, I get ya.

Stuart62 is The Doctor is he?

Well I do have a Scottish accent!

I usually make the post a 2/3 hours before and ask for a poll to be setup. The poll usually appears a couple of hours after the episode finishes.

As I said before, a new thread each week allows us to "reboot" and has a better chance of getting others involved.

..by the way I don't see myself as the "poll" guy so if anyone else wants to do it, please do. I am quite interested in comparing the polls for each episode so perhaps the questions can remain the same.

I don't think anybody will have anything against you doing the same again tomorrow - consistency is a good thing.

thanks, thats another line taken up on my CV then
"DS Doctor Who poll requester"

Well, at the end of that book, the Doctor is removed to Earth (very early 20th century) where it is said he [and his Tardis] are in such a state of shock and trauma, both of them will need around 100 years to recover.

This fits in with Clive's photo's and the 'sightings' people had of CE's Doctor throughout the 20th century i.e. the 'Titanic' family, his appearance in the crowd during Kennedy's assassination etc etc etc.

So no, it all fits so far.

The Doctor survives because his biodata is removed from the matrix - (he is the only one this has happened to as far as he knows) so he assumes he is the last remaining timelord. (However, I'm 99% certain the Master also removed his biodata from the matrix to make it harder for the Timelords to catch him, so he would have survived also).
[Can anyone else corroborate this?]

As for Gallifrey not being destroyed by the Daleks, the Doctor has already said it has been.

As you said, the only thing we don't know is that the battle with the Daleks is the final battle for Gallifrey. But if not, why bother to go back and try and change the outcome?

where was this? books??

Steady on deaddog - I was amending my post.

Another Bad Wolf Scenario (apologies if someone has already said this)...

In the Three Little Pigs, the Wolf huffs and puffs and he blows the house down...

Lets just say that the wolf huffed and puffed using the "breath from his lungs"

Yep - I said this/agreed with this - it's hard to know who said or agreed with what now, this thread is too long.

Quote from aforementioned book:

The Doctor needs just as much time to recover from the trauma of destroying Gallifrey

at least it proved I'm paying attention.

I've been doing even more thinking, and think I can define a "Bad Wolf Scenario"

It's when something evil takes the place of something good. However, good always wins in the end. In Little Red Riding Hood (LRRH) did granny not burst out of the wolf killing it? And in the three little pigs, the wolf was killed because it landed on the fire.

So perhaps the bad wolf isn't so much the TARDIS, but what is inside it (someone mentioned it further back, that something is inside the TARDIS, controlling it).

Perhaps Rose has seen whatever this thing is, the evil that is hiding behind the good (we never saw her go and find the wardrobe). That's why Gwyneth says that she's seen the "Big Bad Wolf".

Oooooooohhhhh!!!! Good spot! There did seem to be a fair bit of significance to that scene!

I knew the "air from my lungs" bit had significance - I posted it further up. Why did that go past me, when I've just posted about the 3 little pigs

Edit: just to let you know, that I slapped my head as soon as I read that!!!!!

As I haven't read the books, do you mean that The Doctor actually destroys Gallifrey himself then?

Be interesting to see if RTD ignores the books and goes and does his own thing or if the unfolding storyine will reflect what has been established in print.

Sounds good - the soaps thread has been having some stick lately because of people posting an episode thread a couple of hours before the episode aired.


Quite. I think we need to take what we know from this thread, not the speculations, but the facts so far, and take them onto a new thread, seperate from the epsiode thread.

Yes, deaddog, seeing the ratings on a week by week comparison is very useful - I was surprised that you did that, but very pleased. Saved a lot of messing about searching. I wonder if tomorrow's episode will be up after the newspaper reports of last week's episode being 'too scary.'

But he surely wouldn't have been looking like Chris Eccleston for nearly a hundred years, and then just after he meets Rose, notices that he's just regenerated in her mirror a hundred years later.


I didn't say that Gallifrey wasn't destroyed by the Daleks.
That's completely different to what i was saying.

Your original point 4 was that the Daleks destroy Gallifrey in the final two-parter of the series.

We don't know this yet (In this series that is).
We don't know if this happens in the final episode at all.
So I just think it wouldn't be something you'd put in a thread establishing what we know.
As far as what we are seeing on the show, it's something yet to be established and confirmed.
Anything could happen in 10 episodes that changes the course of events.

If he's trying to change history then maybe Gallifrey survives....so in that eventuality Gallifrey would not be destroyed in the final episode.

The Dalek battle in the last show is set on earth. That doesn't mean that Gallifrey is destroyed in the final show, and the battle could be set at a time well before the Daleks would normally destroy Gallifrey.

Do you see what I mean?

The Doctor may well have just survived the destruction of Gallifrey by the Daleks at the start of episode one,...but in this series, if he is to succeed, then Gallifrey is not necessarily destroyed in the final two-parter episodes at all.

If in a thread about we do already know, you wouldn't put in something that was speculative probabilty.

Of course since, you have explained that it was just a brief summary of thoughts in this thread to Dundee-Mark, and not intended to be part of a thread based on what we already know.

Yes - becuse there are two competing timelines causing a paradox, each trying to be the 'main' one.


Yes, this is the dilemma I've been trying to reconcile all along.

On the one hand, we have the books where the new series seems to carry on from The Ancestor Cell. On the other, we have the need to establish certain basic concepts such as the Dalek's being the Doctor's nemesis, and CE's confirmation that the Daleks invade Gallifrey at the end of this new series.

My gut feeling is that he will still go with the Daleks being the destroyer of Gallifrey.

Having just done a quick search on Amazon, 3 out of the 5 writers for this series have had Doctor Who books published (Mark Gatiss, Robert Shearman and Paul Cornell) so you'd have to assume that at least some of the ideas from the continuing/expanded adventures will be used/kept to

The Doctor Who site has now been updated with stuff for tonight's episode.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episo...oflondon.shtml

You can see the full fake news report and some wallpapers.