Well, *Duncan* said that Cassandra is a mythical figure whose warnings were never heeded.

Rose proclaims herself the last human... but going along with current theory, is she?

I need to be less subtle when I post.
Last edited by DenWatts : 16-04-2005 at 02:09

I think to solve this one, we need to do one of two things:

Be like the TARDIS and get inside RTD's mind

or

What's he written in the past? Any analogies with other stories etc.?

Could lead us somewhere.....

OK, 3 things - we could just watch!!!!!!

If it is a trap then it would be the kind of thing would do.

He has played the long game before with the Keeper of Traken/Logogolis/Castrovalva scenario.

It could be the trap of all traps....

I'm inclined to think both as well. It just feels right somehow.

That was my original theory.
Mr. Watts didn't originally agree with me

I was the first one to say that The Doctor might be the Master in disguise,..but he doesn't know it.
I also said that if that wasn't true, then it might not be the Master, but that something or someone else id affecting him.
I said that there's something not quite right about this Doctor, and that he might not be the Doctor that we think he is.
Did you not read my thing a few pages back where I said I could imagine a final scene that could be similar to the end of the film "Angel Heart" where it dawns on the Mickey Rourke character who he is when the devil reveals his true identity to him in flashback.
I said I could imagine a final scene similar to this where the truth that the Doctor is possibly in denial with, could be made aware to him in a scene involving flashbacks that points to all the clues that were left along the way.

Mr. Watts didn't agree with me about the Doctor not being the Doctor.

He said he didn't think they would do that.

Although now Mr. Watts thinks that the Doctor and The Master may be both played by Chris Eccleston, but as seperate entities.
Which at this point of time is as equally valid as anything I might have suggested.

I've said all along that I had doubts about this Doctor being who he thinks he is, and that it looks like something's "wrong" with him, or he could be a "bad" Doctor who makes very reckless mistakes due to poor judgement.

More recently I have offered that he may be controlled by the Tardis itself. And some of us believe that this could be due to the Master being inside the Tardis, or something or someone else controlling the Tardis.

Just thinking aloud...

In episode one, as Rose and the Doctor are walking past some garages, there is graffiti on one door saying "Luxton Lives". In an old series of Doctor Who called "The Myth Makers" an actor called John Luxton plays the "Messenger". In mythology the Greek messenger was called Hermes. While Rose is making coffe for the Doctor, you can see Hermesetas sweeteners. Incidentally, a character called "Cassandra" also appears in that story.

So, in the first episode Clive could be described as a "messenger", and maybe he isn't dead after all.

Also, the store where Rose worked, Henrik's, is the name of the famous Norwegian poet, Henrik Ibsen. In one of his most famous stories, Peer Gynt, the main character "...comes up before the Button Molder, who tells that "Friend, it's melting time," and tries to melt him in his ladle. Peer asks what is "to be yourself" and the Button-Molder answers: "To be yourself is to slay yourself."

So maybe, the Doctor will "kill" himself if he feels he's to blame in some way for the destruction of his planet...

No offence was meant or inferred Alrightmate as you know much I like your posts too with such varied and interesting theories and ideas.

I must confess that as this thread has gone on for so long I have got lost as to who posted what idea, where and when. At the end of the day we are all pulling on the same rope even with our different ideas and theories. I am full of admiration for everyone who takes the time to join in and pitch their corner as well as the occasional posters who pop on now and again to add their tuppence worth.

So hats off to all...you are all too numerous to mention but you know who you are.

Why thank you

I must thank whoever managed to get me into this thread. It's because of them, I'm getting ever-closer to the 500 posts mark

You're quite right - I do think the Doctor is who he says he is.

I also said that I thought it would be a neat idea if CE played the part of the Master too, but he wasn't introduced until episode 11. Neat way of hiding the Master's reappearance, and someone else commented that CE could do guest spots as the Master in future series.

Apologies all round if that didn't come through clearly.

AAARGH....Everything I intend to write about in that post I mentioned a few pages back, well everyone's coming out with what I was going to say now.

(notepad out)

Doctor picks up a copy of Heat magazine..."It won't work, he's gay she's an alien"...pause....Doctor reads something..."Rose Tyler"

When you watch that bit again, yes, it looks like a throwaway joke, but it's said as a stream of words that might be have written to subtely join without interruption.

Who says he's just reading from what he picks up?

Rose's conversation with Cassandra.
Rose maintains that she is the last human...not Cassandra.
"I was born on that planet, so was my mum, (slight hesitance and a tiny pause), so was my dad"
Watch that bit again.
The hesitation is subtle, but it's there. It's almost as if Rose isn't quite sure if her dad is human.

And Cassandra is supposed to provide warnings that nobody heeds?.....

Cassandra arguing with the Doctor...."I'm the last human, not that freaky little kid of yours"

And again.....

The Doctor rematerialises Cassandra back to Platform one after Jabe has died.

The first thing the Doctor says when she comes back is..."The last human"......but Rose is stood a few feet behind the Doctor.

Hmm..let me run this line to you again as well........"I'm the last human, not that freaky little kid of yours"
I don't know, I have no thoughts about this line one way or another,....it's a bit much to read into this that the Doctor is Rose's father at the moment....... but it's there in the script should the idea crop up again in a future episode.

You'll probaby call me a lying git, but I was thinking that had relevance as well.

When I'm bored, I'll go through this and all the other threads, marshalling the facts, and try and piece everything together.

It's okay Den, you don't need to apologise to me, I noticed you credited me in your theory post.
It's just a case of the thread itself causing confusion, and people forgetting what each other has said.

Another great night debate and discussion with a good crowd.

Off to my bed but I will look forward to continuing this as well as discussing Aliens of London.

Night all!

I'm nearing a third regenertion already

No I don't think you're a lying git, because I know exactly where you're coming from.
People have beaten me to posting what I intended to post but didn't get round to saying it.
It's happened to one or two others too, and I don't think they lied either.

I have a long post to write tommorrow, I just hope that by the time I post it everyone else hasn't just posted the same things before I do.

And it was an oversight on my part not to recall who said what, when etc....

So hopefully I haven't offended you.

It's strange - there are a couple of things that have cropped up tonight that I thought had relevance, but couldn't think in what way.

Maybe we have mind readers on here

Goodnight Black Guardian.
I look forward to tommorrow night.
Should be interesting.

No, not at all.

It's going to be hard to remember who exactly said what in such a long and winding thread.

I'm away as well.

Got to have a fresh brain tomorrow!!!

Only trouble is, I can't watch it at 7, so it might take a while for me to add my tuppence worth

I'll be here, though - you can guarantee it

I think it may be that due to this thread coming to an end tommorow night, most of us are getting the more obscure stuff out of the way before it's forgotten, just in case.

Because we do know that due to one or two things such as the "appearance of the repeated meme" bit, that the writers are prepeared to put in very subtle, obscure clues into the script.
Now we know this, it opens things up to us that weren't considered before, but now they are fair game.

Must echo that - scintillating stuff and very entertaining, but I'm in need of a few hours in the zero room myself.
Goodnight all.

Just before everyone goes, can anyone still here write just 3 more posts so that we can get this thread to 1000 posts?

got in from work with a few ideas and had to spend ages catching up!!!

Maybe I'll get a chance to do the same as Alrightmate & put my ideas (along with many other worthy ideas from the last week) into a coherant whole.

We could then compare notes without having to flick through forty-odd pages!

BTW - I sent a message to the Powers That Be asking for our own little space here at DS - they wil be in touch.

Looks like we made it to the 1000!


Just to make it legitimate - I still think that this Doctor is only an avatar - i.e. Doctor # 8.5.