All the viewer did was ask for more entertainment, the best possible. All the producers did was give it to them the best way they could. They identified that arguments we're loved by viewers and easily solicited through manipulation, rinse repeat, and so here we are.

The real question imo is why the hell is a broadcasting company getting away with such irresponsibility.

I don't disagree, so u feel it was the producers then?

I think a minority of people in general will always be as you described them. "wanting their entertainment in bite size chunks" I describe them as impatient to get their cocaine fix of entertainment. "Cocaine" because i perceive an inherant danger in getting what you want all of the time without considering concequenses (remembering pavlov's dog experiment) I think Producers via input from C5 have aimed the show at this blind minority of addicts, which gives the rest of us the feeling that we are not the target audience any longer. We'll we're not, a bunch of cretins are.

It seems to me the only logical cause for the disgruntled viewer is to stop watching, complain to the regulators or get with the program, literally because this year isn't the start of something bad, all this "attracting a new audience" and "focusing on social media output rather than live feed" started on day one and was further strengthened in BB13 when C5 announced the show would become "more Machiavellian" We are at the end of an evolutionary process so, if left to continue next year will be more of the same. Honestly C5 have the broadcasting license and the buck stops there imo.

I must admit I've have seriously considered not watching this year but I'm a huge BB fan and not quite ready to let it go just yet but unfortunately I think that day be fast approaching. As you correctly point out, I'm not the target audience anymore and I probably need to move on but there is always that " maybe this year it'll be different" thought in my mind

I have to wonder though how much further are the producers willing to go so that the audience can get their pound of flesh.

I don't mean to suggest there is no value left, i watch it and still enjoy parts of it, i'v just changed the way i consume the show. I badly try my best not to get caught up in the vilification or fandom aspects because it seems crazy to talk about Marc for instance in moralistic absolutes, whilst recognizing he's been encouraged to be a manipulating control freak by a show that dangles 150 grand in front of his face and supports him with advantage (immunity from noms etc) Maybe it's all an act?!. But then i think i can see behind the "stage presence" to the real person and perhaps it's ok to judge him on his intrusive style of banter or his chosen method of game.

Shhh!...don't tell anyone this but i'm rather conflicted by the show, and i wouldn't expect anyone to agree, however i think many of us are and why wouldn't we. What we watch every night is a performance of reality. The blurring of lines are limitless. Was Nikki crying for the cameras or not? - either, what a bitch! or poor love. Either is possible and reasonable lol.

It can't get much worse can it, we're already in Jerry Springer "ding ding round 3" territory as it is The OP mentioned if it was too late to turn things around and it really isn't because imo we had an old school Big Brother for the first 18 days of this series, much less manipulation and house-mates that Big Brother found difficult to provoke

Harriet - look at how we're arguing and we're letting it happen

Then of course the 4 in 4 out twist came along to fix the happy house vibe. All the producers need to do is pick the right house-mates and let them get on with it, i can't believe the ratings would go southwards, we'd just have a different audience demographic tuning in.

Speak for yourself, it never works for me, it just bores.

You can have arguments and it still being fun. The arguments isn't the problem, it's the way they go about trying to create them.

Yes i think this is the case for me as well.

I have been thinking, this is rubbish i need to stop doing this to myself for about 3 years now but something in the name of Big Brother means I just hang in there. It might be time to admit to myself that the show I loved isn't coming back and sticking with what BB is now is really just winding myself up.

It's not real - it is pantomime with goodies and baddies, set plays, pratfalls and (occasional) audience participation. Oh no he didn't - oh yes he did seems to be the level we are operating at and it really isn't for me, and if I tell myself that enough sooner or later I might actually do something sensible like stop watching this tripe.

Btw thank you very much PatsyLimerick for an excellent OP. Summed up very articulately what I feel a lot of us old BB lifers are feeling.

Sad Times

Well I'm still watching it and yes I do enjoy some parts The ironic thing is this had the potential to be a good series. There was a nice diverse mixture of personalities and relationships both friendly and not so friendly were developing nicely. Then the four in four out happened and that was the end of that.

I totally agree that if u get the right mix of people in there the story lines will unfold naturally, it's human nature after all and far more interesting than the contrived mess Ch5 have presented us with.

That's a good point. I feel they aren't fans at all; so blasé are they about the central tenets of the original show.


Thank you!


I feel a bit 'dirty' watching it, tbh.


Yep, I think if it wasn't for the forum, I'd have stopped watching ages ago. It all you guys' fault!


Bit in bold - love it!


Bit in bold - exactly! It's a case, for a viewer, of 'oh God, not another bloody twist!'. They just do it for the sake of it now. Almost rubbing our faces in their disingenuousness.


They don't give the content a chance; the normal conversations that can be so interesting and intriguing. I've no problem with conflict, to be honest, so long as it occurs some bit organically. It's all so contrived now.


I didn't know that! Sorry. I assumed from the little I saw that they knew each other outside because of what Aisleyne said when she gave Simon basic rations.


Thank you.


Great post, Muggs. I agree completely.


Bit in bold - that's exactly my issue with the current incarnation of the show.


Awww. Thank you! x


POTS! How the heck are ya? Agree with you and Muggs. It must be reflecting something; nothing we should be proud of, though.

So true! I wish they'd sod off and watch TOWIE though!

I have noticed that the forum has changed just as much as the show has too. A few years ago, a HM like Marc or Helen would not have gathered any support whatsoever. I'm guessing it's just a newer generation of viewers that have come to the forum and replaced the older ones? Can't explain it.

I'm good thanks my lovely, hope all is well with you and yours x

Well when housemates like Mark and Helen are lauded as saviours of the series then something must be wrong somewhere surely? in my opinion of course

I think there has hardly ever been an interesting conversation in BB.

Which is not to say people aren't ever interested by conversations when they're interested in the HMs involved.


Do you agree that "Boredom doesn't exist"?

I have to wonder what people think "boredom" means, if they think boredom doesn't exist.

Do you think the manipulation is "purely for the sake of engendering nastiness" or 'for ratings"?

I said right at the beginning that C5 had appeared to cast this series as if there was a live feed - the slower burn relationships and situations works best when you are privy to the build up and context - and then dipped out, leaving us with a series with a limp. We had the cast, just not the opportunity for them to grow and then C5 blinked and gave us the series/events they were comfortable with.

I think the producers believe that engendering nastiness leads to ratings. Which for them is the benefit of HM's who could start an argument in an empty room. if the viewer is aware that HM X is likely to have hissy fit over nothing at all then there is no need to put it into context - they can just show the hissy fit as a stand alone event and that the audience will assume it's just X being X.

People seem to have a total fantasy of what Big brother used to be like.

The most talked about ones and favourites are the ones with conflicts.

It has never been high culture. It is not Shakespeare. It has never been socially responsible. It attracts wannabees and attention seekers.

The introduction of past housemates has saved the show from poor casting decisions.

But the conflict had context - you had seen the build up, often over the course of a few days. It wasn't just people randomly yelling at each other for no apparent reason (often in fancy dress. Mainly clowns) and you also saw the aftermath.

Also, even the most angsty C4 series had light and shade and weren't wall-to-wall with ill humour.

I don't really understand all this, when I said this exact same thing, about 3 years ago, I was shot down in flames by some on this thread, and told to not to bother watching if I didn't like how it was going. So I thought about it, and decided to try taking it as a scripted reality thing. I'd still prefer it to be as it was, but I recognise that there's no real way that they can actually go back now, it's way too late for that because of the culture now, everything has to be immediate for most youngsters today and that is their chosen demographic. I doubt you'd get many of the old BB stalwart viewers back now and they'd lose many of the viewers they have if they tried to change it back, so we're stuck with this format. I think the worst thing about it now though is the way that some HM's are completely vilified for playing their part in trying to win the game, from those that are still trying to watch it as it used to be. I recognise that because I was the same to start with, but I've slowly started to take it as it is and now I don't get quite so riled up, and I can see when HM's are playing a designated part, when some are just being themselves, and when some are properly trying to play the gameshow that is now BB. I could have just given up on it, but I am an avid people-watcher so it still interests me in that way, watching body language, watching eye contact, or not, listening to what they say etc. I just don't take it seriously any more, and it's much easier to watch now most times.

Three years ago it was still fairly new to C5 and there was still a glimmer of hope it could change. Now, even that faint glimmer has been extinguished. I think last year was the watershed for a lot of people. Just be grateful you're further down the line than some of us!

Great post and I agree with every word. All the producers are doing is giving us what they think we want.

I think some wear very thick rose tinted specs.

I have noticed that my tolerance to BB tactics has evolved since the beginning. I used to be shocked and annoyed at much less than now. So I'm sure I'm getting desensitised and immune!