Quite right.

I would also like to add that Helen is no worse than Nikki or Aisleyne who have both behaved like low lives during this and previous stints on BB.

I'm sure that anyone who has watched since the beginning - or regularly - knows there has always been some degree of manipulation. In his book, Dean from BB2 says that the HM's characters were defined from the start - right down to the indent picture of them that was chosen. He was given the grass seeds by Big Brother (real grass in the olden times!) and asked if he would reseed and water the garden. When he came out he saw this had been put together to help his 'boring' tag with the request omitted.

I've always said that I don't mind conflict - if it happens organically. But taking someone like Helen Wood - and an 'enemy like Brian - and shoving them back in JUST to cause conflict is a very new and unwelcome approach to the game.

I've never considered it high culture; it's a guilty pleasure and a bit of escapism. But the re-introduction of former hms has completely swept away the no outside contact principle which has often been messed with in the past; but never completely dispensed with as it has been this year.

Everyone knew what was going to happen when they put Helen back in. So yes, it was done to engender nastiness IMO.


I thought this until this year. Even last year, I though 'oh, well - it's a different kind of approach to BB'. It's the re-introduction of former hms that I have a real issue with.

It's purely a personal opinion, in MY opinion you cannot be bored - it's a state of mind. There's always something to do, thoughts to think.

When I was a teen my Dad would see me staring into space and say 'if you're bored, do something'. I would reply that I was not bored, I had my thoughts to entertain me

Surely nobody should ever be bored - there are books to read, films to watch, games to play, there's music to listen to, washing-up to do, letters to write, e-mails to send... whatever, there's always something that needs doing, something to do.

Perhaps my definition of boredom is different. I would say, though, that I'm never bored in the 'there's nothing to do' kind of way. When people say they are bored, with regard to BB - how can they be, they choose to watch it, it's either entertaining you (in a pleasurable or an aggravating way ... in SOME way) or you turn it off, or find something else to watch. There's a plethora of channels available these days, plus the internet.

If a person's easily bored, doesn't that say something about their state of mind, that the choose to be bored rather than finding something that doesn't bore them?

In a world with more options than any other time in even my 52 years, how can anybody be bored? It's a state of mind, one I choose not to indulge in.

In BB terms, I realise that when people say a housemate is boring they don't really mean boring, they mean they don't like them, or they aren't wild and wacky enough for them, or argumentative/scintillating/unusual/(insert description) enough for them... they aren't providing them with the level of entertainment that require from that housemate for them not to be 'boring'.

Anyway, obviously my post was my own personal opinion, and in my life I don't use the term 'I'm bored' or somebody is 'boring' because I have options ... not to be bored.

I think maybe this is why we agree on this Muggs; my parents always told me 'you make your own entertainment'. And so we did. We used to stage plays and all for the neighbourhood when we were kids! As long as there are books in the world - I would never be bored. That's why if I was on BB I think I might be bored for the first time in my life.

My own three know fine well not to tell me they're bored - whatever else they say to me! I wouldn't be long finding them something to do.

Either that, or I'd develop a hitherto unknown cleaning passion and run amok with the Flash just for something to do - and end up branded as boring and controlling

Maybe its the ahem 'older' viewers amongst us who prefer to sit back and watch it take shape organically because in 'our day' thats the way life was. Today it all seems to be instant gratification, telling it like it is, being wild and wacky or downright rude that is considered entertaining.

Then your opinion that "Boredom doesn't exist" is incorrect. Perhaps you cannot be bored, but plenty of other people can be and sometimes are.

I don't know what you mean by "it's a state of mind". How would that mean it doesn't exist? You seem to be thinking that minds have states (so that something can be a "state of mind") but also that the states don't exist (so that boredom, which you say is a "state of mind", can be nonexistent).


Perhaps no one ever should be bored; but that doesn't mean no one ever is, or that boredom doesn't exist.

Beides, when people talk of boredom in a BB context, they're usually saying it's the show that's boring them. That there are completely different things they could be doing instead of watching BB doesn't mean BB isn't boring or that they aren't bored when watching it.


You're conflating different issues. You say you're never bored in the "there's nothing to do" kind of way. Fine. Plenty of people are sometimes bored in that way; but if you're not, fine, you're not. But when people say they're bored in a BB context, they don't mean bored in the "there's nothing to do" kind of way; they don't mean there's nothing else they could do that would be interesting. Indeed, they're often doing something else too, at the time (such as participating in this forum), which they find enjoyable or interesting.

Then you mix in yet another issue by "how can they be (bored), they choose to watch it ...", as if you think they're lying or deluded about finding BB boring.


There's "state of mind" again. Anyway, if you can't understand how anyone can be bored, then you can't; that wouldn't mean no one ever is bored.


When I say a HM is boring, I mean the HM is boring, and I really do mean boring. You're trying to create endless complications about a word that is actually quite straightforward.

Do you have the same sort of view of dull, uninteresting, bland, or the positive alternatives such as interesting?


It's your opinion about other people, not just yourself, and as such it can be mistaken.

I watched the first three quarters of the highlights show and switched off when I saw what was coming up when they showed a clip of it before the ad break.

Aisleyne drunk and getting into Danny's bed. Couldn't bear to see the start of another "fake showmance". So, so boring now.

Aisleyne's other reason for going in other than to cause arguments with Helen.

Just leave the show as it is meant to be a group of strangers living in a house for 12 weeks and see what happens.

All the interference with nominations nowadays messes it all up as well. All for ratings I know but it was never like it in C4 days.

Nikki was brought back in after her eviction in the C4 days.

I know that and still thought it was wrong then. Once you leave that's it in my book.

It's funny how we all view things differently.
I thought the show got BETTER after they turfed out those 4 Housemates.
Bringing in (i hate to admit) Helen, Brian and Nikki was the best thing they did.
Otherwise, this series would've been as dull as BB4!

Yes, but that's nastiness in the house. (BB seems to think that anything that gets people talking will lead to ratings.)

But patsylimerick was talking about engendering nastiness out here when she wrote: "it's an attempt to start a discussion about whether or not BB has passed the point of no return in terms of manipulation purely for the sake of engendering nastiness - nastiness that far outstrips anything actually happening in the house; ironically enough." (Emphasis added)


But what you said about "engendering nastiness" wasn't specifically about Helen's return. Indeed, the HM you discussed in the immediately preceding paragraph was Aisleyne.

No one would guess from what you said about Aisleyne that many people like her, that quite a few people out here wanted BB to put her in, and said so, or that those were people who liked Aisleyen, not people who wanted another chance to be nasty about her or to indulge in sanctimonious revelling.

When only the anti-Aisleyne side is mentioned, it can seem that BB must have put her in to engender that negative reaction; but BB would be aware of Aisleyne's popularity. Just look at how Emma keeps going "Ash-a-leeeEEEEEeeN!"

It makes more sense to think the Helen was brought back to engender nastiness, but she did after all win last year's show and was backed by such people as Emma Kennedy. I even saw one generally respected ex-HM say they'd voted for the first time ever to vote for Helen to win. So while there are suspicious things about her win, and some other motives for voting for her, she had some genuine support.

I agree that BB is exploiting the ex-HMs and the viewers, and I think BB has an amoral approach to the show, but I think their aim when bringing the ex-HMs in was to generate buzz, interest, and ratings -- not caring that it would engender nastiness too, but without having the nastiness as a goal.

I agree with most of what you say there, and I thought last night's highlights were very poor, with nothing in them I thought worth watching.

But last night's show had one the highest ratings since the launch. (I think there was only one other post-launch highlights show that equalled it, and it was one of the recent ones.)

You've hit the nail on the head for me, I'd like to see what happens, not what some production team decide we want to see.

I agree with the OP, it is all distasteful, and yes Helen in particular was put back in there to create a nasty rift.

The first two years on channel 5 were similar to the channel 4 years (Aaron and Luke A years). The change was 2013 . The producers put in two HMs that were obvious false personas put in to play a role. Viewers knew that Gina and Dexter were not what they claimed to be within hours of the launch, so I think it is most probable that channel 5 knew and condoned/promoted their pretend personas. Many of the other HMs that year were found because they had been in the media (Sallie, Hazel, Wolfie, Dan, Sam)

Producer manipulation designed to cause hurt feelings and humiliation started with this series.

1 - secret room brought back - The producers seemed delighted when Gina started calling Hazel every kind of derogatory reference along the lines of slut, slag....

2 - They created 'online polls' so the viewers could vote for who was the least hygienic, least attractive, many categories designed to humiliate HMs and relay outside information. They used this 'online poll' system more than once. (I guess they really liked the result because it is now a staple of the show.)

3 -They even gave Gina a cell phone so she could talk to her boyfriend, all aimed at causing hurt

New for 2015, more producer manipulation

1 - Game where BB requires HMs to ask questions designed by BB to be hurtful

2 - "debate' about HMs qualities also meant to humiliate HMs and cause arguments

3 - Helen


I've pretty much given up the forum, much of the commentary is bizarre and offensive to me. This thread is one of the few that is a real discussion, thanks patsy