Is a 'real man' a crim who jumps from random bed to bed having Moses' along the way then?

Interesting.

It certainly is. I liked Tracy off screen legov'r and the bit about the pies.

We all know Dobb's never gonna smile. It's scientifically impossible.

I've heard Aaron's quite partial to a fisherman's friend as well. He's anybody's for a ciggy, really.

I really can't with Ross still wanting to shag Debbie knowing what he knows gross

He has no morals and only cares about himself.

Andybear, Ross is misunderstood and easily led. And he cares for Finn and April (and his aunt Moira). He is nowhere near the likes of Cain in the scumbag stakes.

It's a pity he is being dragged down by the Dour Debbie/Skank Charity nonsense (despite the screen time he is getting).

Surely you're joking. For starters. who made him car jack Laurel? Who made him rob places and put a man into hospital - I don't know if he died. Who makes him shag everything in a skirt, resulting in oneof the shaggees having his baby (one that we know of anyway. There may be others from before he was on screen). . Who makes him steal cars. No-one makes him do those things - he chooses to do them So his being 'misunderstood and easily led' is crap.

Much as I dislike Debbie and Charity, I think they are being dragged down by him, not him being dragged down by them.

Debbie is as bad as him. If he has no morals neither does she..


Although she has fantastic taste in men

I agree, Debbie is as bad as him. I can't stand either character though I dislike Ross more than Debbie.

I like him but I like the bad boy characters

It wouldn't take long for Rob to find out if he is. The taste of fish when he kisses him would give it away

FFS Sorcha! Can we not have one thread that isn't a Debbie dissing one?


Yay

I only meant in the context of the affair star . It takes 2 to tango/do it in a pick up truck

I have been watching some Debbie and jasmine clips, did Cain have a big following when he was a massive homophobic bellend? And people want this creature back?

IIRC most people turned against Cain during all that. Especially when he 'stole' Jasmine and knocked her up But I'm pretty sure he's always, mostly, been a well loved character.

For the record I do NOT want old Cain back

Cain was not a well loved character in the beginning, he was as JOP said a homophobic bullying bellend. He fell for a copper in Angie Reynolds , when she told him to Jog on he seduced her daughter. He bullied Sam terribly and he only stopped when Eli threatened him. he was only bearable when the Kings arrived in the village, he was a quite good foil against them

I know what he was but people still loved the character. I said IIRC (I could be wrong) when I used to be on these boards, back when the Jasmine stuff that JOP questioned aired, FM's still loved Cain.

Started get more back story then I think It took a while to rehabilitate Cain and the character is all the more layered for the time spent. If only the writers were as patient today

Ross is a total and utter car crash. I actually like how they haven't rubbed off his nastier edges, even when they show him as vulnerable. My only complaint about Ross now is that the stuff with Debbie has made him completely boring. There's no worse sin, really, specially in a character who was really entertaining to watch.


And the tear-stained sou'wester under Aaron's pillow.

I agree. Cain's a character who we've got to know over years. From what I've seen (and I missed a lot of the mid noughties stuff on ED but have watched old Youtube clips), as a character he's been consistently well and believably written and acted. With Ross, the acting is good, but the writing's letting him down. The back story with his dad turned out to be rubbish, the one with his Mum just a plot device to introduce a bunny boiler, and everything else has just frlt rushed. Cain has developed into a more likeable well rounded character but he's been allowed to do that in a believable way. With Ross it feels very forced. The character and the actor will surely burn out very quickly if this goes on?

Ha!

He's not easily led, and if he was, how is that a defence?Like Cain, he does what he wants. Not as bad as cain? With the things that he's already done? He just hasn't had ad much time plus he's more of a wimp and he messes up all his plans. Is he misunderstood? He's had a lot of pain because his mother left him, but he's also had a very loving, understanding Dad. So yes he probably feels very angry and insecure. I can feel a bit if sympathy without liking him, and as the writers are being very manipulative in their attempts to show his soft side, it comes across as very unbelievable.

Cain and Debbie are characters who as well as having terrible flaws over the years have shown us real strong points. It hasn't felt rushed or forced in any way.

What I really liked was finding out recently how badly Cain had been treated by Shadrach, we knew that he hated him but we did not know exactly why. It was also nice to see that he went back to that horrible situation for his sister . Nice touch that

New info is always nice, layers things quite nicely

Exactly. I know people who had alcoholic parents or partners and that story rung very true to me. Yet it's taken fourteen years for that to come out- and again that's true to the character and believable. I had always thought that Shadrach and Faith were neglectful and probably abusive but it's taken all of that time for it to be spelled out.

To me, there's a real grit and darkness about both Cain and Debbie. It's like they flirt with madness at times. As well as that we still get to see their good points, but they're often not easy to like. The attempts to show Ross as 'damaged' and 'soft hearted' come across as really obvious and cliched and that makes it hard ti believe in him or find him interesting.

This is an excellent post. Ross doesn't even provide for himself; first he was a parasite at the farm, then he leeched on to Andy, now he lives with his mummy. Were we ever told if the old man, who Ross attacked while robbing the man's shop, died or had brain damage? We had the farcical Bonnie & Clyde story; is that bent policewoman still on the Roll of Honour? (I love your word 'shaggees, it should be included the Oxford dictionary !!).