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0800 numbers and mobiles
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kmusgrave
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“Under the rules, the access charge must be the same, regardless of 084/087/09/118 number, however Lebara are quoting different access charges for different number ranges, which is illegal. Having different access charges would kind of remove the whole point of the UK Calling changes...”

That's what I find unclear. The rules say

Although the access charge may vary between providers, it will always be the same for calls you make to the affected numbers within your call plan.

That can be read (to me) as each affected number e.g. 08432xxx are all the same and all 1182xxx xx are the same but may be different from each other.

The part

Some providers may also choose to offer call plans which include some of these charges within their inclusive call packages.

Wouldn't make sense otherwise.

On the whole I think the new rules make it less clear what the charges are than before.
plymouthbloke1974
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by kmusgrave:
“That's what I find unclear. The rules say

Although the access charge may vary between providers, it will always be the same for calls you make to the affected numbers within your call plan.

That can be read (to me) as each affected number e.g. 08432xxx are all the same and all 1182xxx xx are the same but may be different from each other.

The part

Some providers may also choose to offer call plans which include some of these charges within their inclusive call packages.

Wouldn't make sense otherwise.

On the whole I think the new rules make it less clear what the charges are than before.”

The bit I've highlighted.... It means the access fee will differ between phone companies, however it will stay the same regardless of call type with that company.

Companies are allowed to bundle these calls if they wish to do so, the same as before.

Simple as that.
petef
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by johnathome:
“Three is working now.

Tried to link to the page but it won't let me? Says bad input.”

It is still bad for me.

http://www.three.co.uk/Store/Pay_As_You_Go_Price_Plans

If you click on Price Plan Details about half way down that pops up a box with the headline rates. The problems come on the Three Price Guide link in that.

Both Opera and Chrome display a message "Failed to load PDF document". IE does produce a result but the price guide is dated Nov 2013.
johnathome
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by petef:
“It is still bad for me.”

If you click this then the link that says 'Check a call cost'

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourc...e%20on%20three
kmusgrave
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“Under the rules, the access charge must be the same, regardless of 084/087/09/118 number, however Lebara are quoting different access charges for different number ranges, which is illegal. Having different access charges would kind of remove the whole point of the UK Calling changes...”

Three are also charging different for 118 numbers. You would have thought they would have all checked with their solicitors what they could and could not do. I notice that Vodafone one is only for the next few weeks then it's doubling
kmusgrave
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“
Companies are allowed to bundle these calls if they wish to do so, the same as before.

Simple as that.”


But it says "some of them" if they are all same how can they do that? That's what's confusing me.
plymouthbloke1974
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by kmusgrave:
“Three are also charging different for 118 numbers. You would have thought they would have all checked with their solicitors what they could and could not do. I notice that Vodafone one is only for the next few weeks then it's doubling ”

Three's access charge is 25p/min for 118, the same as the others. The service charge varies, which is the same for all operators.
japaul
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“I've just tweeted them publicly to ask... Let's see what happens...”

I think you are right.

If you want to play lawyer then the real rules are Ofcom's General Conditions rather than the ukcalling site. The latest version is here but I've done the hard work as the relevant paragraphs are 17.24 - 17.30

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...8_MAY_2015.pdf



17.25 says:

The Access Charge must
(a) not vary within a Consumer’s tariff package by reference to:

(i) the Unbundled Tariff Number that is called; or
(ii) the time or day of the call;

(b) be set at a pence per minute rate.




That seems clear to me that you can't have different access charges within the same tariff. The only variation allowed is where some numbers are inclusive as per paragraph 17.29/17.30 which says:


17.29 Paragraph 17.30 applies if both the following conditions in respect of a call to an Unbundled Tariff Number are satisfied

(a) the Consumer has purchased a bundle of inclusive call minutes or inclusive calls from the Communications Provider, which includes call minutes (or calls) to one or more Unbundled Tariff Numbers; and

(b) the call is to an Unbundled Tariff Number which counts towards remaining minutes (or calls) in the bundle of inclusive minutes (or calls) purchased by the Consumer.

17.30 Where this paragraph applies, the Access Charge Element shall be deemed to be zero.




That allows certain numbers to be part of an inclusive bundle with no access charge e.g. you could have a bundle of inclusive 0845 calls but still get charged the access charge for 0870. However I'd say you can still have only one access charge above zero.

Anyone else read this differently?
plymouthbloke1974
02-07-2015
No not at all. I notice some landline providers are only zero-rating the access charge to 0845/0870 and some are covering all of the charge so your interpretation covers that nicely.

I'm astounded there isn't a quick way of emailing OFCOM to tell them either!
kmusgrave
02-07-2015
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“Three's access charge is 25p/min for 118, the same as the others. The service charge varies, which is the same for all operators.”

Sorry, I misread it. They quote a connection charge as well, but it's just the 1st minute's service charge. However they do charge differently for 118313 they have an a cess charge, a connection charge (£4.45) and a per minute service charge.
clivers
02-07-2015
3 have a checker that you can check the costs.
http://support.three.co.uk/SRVS/CGI-...=obj%284570%29
118118 is eyewatering.
petef
03-07-2015
Originally Posted by johnathome:
“If you click this then the link that says 'Check a call cost'

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourc...e%20on%20three”

The link I cited is still bad, though Opera and Chrome both are now able to read the Nov 2013 price guide.

The current price guide (Jul 2015) is available at http://www.three.co.uk/Three_price_guide

--
Pete Forman
http://petef.22web.org/payg.html
mupet0000
03-07-2015
Originally Posted by clivers:
“3 have a checker that you can check the costs.
http://support.three.co.uk/SRVS/CGI-...=obj%284570%29
118118 is eyewatering.”

That's incredible!

According to that, if you call 118118 on 3, you will be charged £8.98 literally as soon as the call is connected, and then £2.99 per minute after that. FYI, my sim-only contract costs me less than calling 118118 for 1 second.

Isn't it Ofcoms job to regulate this kind of thing? Are they insane, incompetent or in the pockets of the networks?
moox
03-07-2015
Originally Posted by mupet0000:
“That's incredible!

According to that, if you call 118118 on 3, you will be charged £8.98 literally as soon as the call is connected, and then £2.99 per minute after that. FYI, my sim-only contract costs me less than calling 118118 for 1 second.

Isn't it Ofcoms job to regulate this kind of thing? Are they insane, incompetent or in the pockets of the networks?”

In the pockets of the DQ companies, presumably. But it is ofcom so it probably is incompetence.

I'm assuming that the access charge is what 3 sets and gets, and the rest is decided by the DQ provider? That's one downside of the idea that everything must have competition. BT were hardly cheap when they had the monopoly on directory enquiries, but the rise of competition has turned it into daylight robbery. At least there's the internet
petef
11-07-2015
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“Under the rules, the access charge must be the same, regardless of 084/087/09/118 number, however Lebara are quoting different access charges for different number ranges, which is illegal. Having different access charges would kind of remove the whole point of the UK Calling changes...”

Lebara have now updated their rates so that there is a uniform access charge of 25p / min.

http://www.lebara.co.uk/uk-calling

There are still 11 operators who have not updated their rates and show charges for 0800. In addition the roamers (Maxroam, toggle, Truphone) have yet to fall in line. Are they subject to the Ofcom regulations?
--
Pete Forman
http://petef.22web.org/payg.html
plymouthbloke1974
11-07-2015
Originally Posted by petef:
“Lebara have now updated their rates so that there is a uniform access charge of 25p / min.

http://www.lebara.co.uk/uk-calling

There are still 11 operators who have not updated their rates and show charges for 0800. In addition the roamers (Maxroam, toggle, Truphone) have yet to fall in line. Are they subject to the Ofcom regulations?
--
Pete Forman
http://petef.22web.org/payg.html”

It's amazing what the odd threat to OFCOM can do
japaul
11-07-2015
Good work plymouth!
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