If the Tories are in power they'll build right wing robots who'll throw nuts and bolts through the windows of the humans who don't open their curtains before 8.00am. Bloody lazy humans.
What will politicians do when there are no/few hard working families due to robots?
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Googling post capitalist world and researching from there brings some very interesting thought provoking answers /ideas.
It's not really a case of capitalism being overthrown but rather it reaches a natural end of the road and is transcended eventually. capitalism has been very useful and transformative in many ways but that doesn't mean it won't reach a point of outliving it's usefulness. Nothing in the law of nature means that the phenomenon of capitalism, this stage in human history is meant to be or even capable of being eternal.
Robots etc are a good thing if seen outside of the context of capitalism.
It's not really a case of capitalism being overthrown but rather it reaches a natural end of the road and is transcended eventually. capitalism has been very useful and transformative in many ways but that doesn't mean it won't reach a point of outliving it's usefulness. Nothing in the law of nature means that the phenomenon of capitalism, this stage in human history is meant to be or even capable of being eternal.
Robots etc are a good thing if seen outside of the context of capitalism.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33327659
"Intelligent Machines: The jobs robots will steal first"
"Will a robot take your job?"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34066941
"Type your job title into the search box below to find out the likelihood that it could be automated within the next two decades."
Give it a go on the 2nd link
"Intelligent Machines: The jobs robots will steal first"
"Will a robot take your job?"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34066941
"Type your job title into the search box below to find out the likelihood that it could be automated within the next two decades."
Give it a go on the 2nd link
Facebook founder and chief executive Mark Zuckerberg unveils 2016 plans for artificially intelligent butler -
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fa...0UI03X20160104
Perhaps he will beat Dyson and Google in their race to build a domestic robot in 5 years?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fa...0UI03X20160104
Perhaps he will beat Dyson and Google in their race to build a domestic robot in 5 years?
I'm doubtful the idea of a universal payment to everyone is going to come in soon, but the era of the Conservative is no doubt coming to an end so you never know,
The generation that gifted them almost constant power is dead or soon to be so.
The generation that gifted them almost constant power is dead or soon to be so.
Originally Posted by Net Nut:
“Facebook founder and chief executive Mark Zuckerberg unveils 2016 plans for artificially intelligent butler - ”
“Facebook founder and chief executive Mark Zuckerberg unveils 2016 plans for artificially intelligent butler - ”
Just what the world needs, an AI Butler.
First world problems get more bizarre by the day..
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“I'm doubtful the idea of a universal payment to everyone is going to come in soon, but the era of the Conservative is no doubt coming to an end so you never know,
The generation that gifted them almost constant power is dead or soon to be so.”
“I'm doubtful the idea of a universal payment to everyone is going to come in soon, but the era of the Conservative is no doubt coming to an end so you never know,
The generation that gifted them almost constant power is dead or soon to be so.”
It's time to copy Finland and give every citizen a basic income -
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a6765386.html
Is basic income the answer to robots?
http://in-cyprus.com/is-basic-income...wer-to-robots/
Just heard about this new full size robot -
http://projetromeo.com/en/welcome
https://www.aldebaran.com/en/cool-robots/romeo
It's like a companion or carebot for the elderly/disabled?
Looks good but how many jobs could be lost to something like this?
http://projetromeo.com/en/welcome
https://www.aldebaran.com/en/cool-robots/romeo
It's like a companion or carebot for the elderly/disabled?
Looks good but how many jobs could be lost to something like this?
Originally Posted by swingaleg:
“What's the current % of the workforce that produces goods , ie industry and agriculture
a hundred years ago it was probably 95%
50 years ago it was probably 40%
now......20% ?
that trend will just continue and the rest of the population will do non-productive things like they do now.......working in cinemas, coffee shops, care homes........shuffling around the goods and serving other people who an hour later might be serving you........the money moves around. Everyone spends which transfers money to someone else who works in a shop or garage
Basically the vast majority of the population are non productive and just shuffle around the money in exchange for services........that will be a larger and larger % of the population.”
“What's the current % of the workforce that produces goods , ie industry and agriculture
a hundred years ago it was probably 95%
50 years ago it was probably 40%
now......20% ?
that trend will just continue and the rest of the population will do non-productive things like they do now.......working in cinemas, coffee shops, care homes........shuffling around the goods and serving other people who an hour later might be serving you........the money moves around. Everyone spends which transfers money to someone else who works in a shop or garage
Basically the vast majority of the population are non productive and just shuffle around the money in exchange for services........that will be a larger and larger % of the population.”
Indeed, thats where we already are. The people with the education, imagination and get up and go, have moved into the new services and the old expanding professions. Their numbers have been increased by the success of females in education, and getting into the top jobs, at least at lower levels. They have been joined by the EU Immigrants with the skills needed, and the unskilled EU migrants who are prepared to do the nasty dirty jobs. London is now a global city providing financial , legal, cultural and design services to the world, and the successful areas of the economy have built into successful international trade. Add on the ,better paid, national sectors like health, train drivers, and the expanding research sector, and you have a lot of people doing well. Even the collapse in civil service manpowr has been matched by an expansion in teaching , and jobs in the privatised firms that now supply the same services. And these people are, in turn, serviced by people who provide them with services that are optional and dependant on people with enough disposal income living nearby - from wedding singers, coffee shops, and restaurants - to nail technicians, kitchen designers, and dog minders.
The problem is the people who are doing less well in English exams than newly arriving immigrants , have no manual jobs to do, who are in competition with student working part time, and smarter EU graduates, or living in isolated towns and cities where not much has happened for decades. Its far from clear what they do while the rest of the population enjoy rising living standards. Its also far from clear how a political system works, when a substantial part of the population has no stakes in the economy, and is looking for a Trump character to get behind and protest about it.
Originally Posted by Net Nut:
“" Sir James Dyson is taking on the might of Google by investing £5m in a British university to develop a new generation of "intelligent domestic robots"
http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...omestic-robots”
“" Sir James Dyson is taking on the might of Google by investing £5m in a British university to develop a new generation of "intelligent domestic robots"
http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...omestic-robots”
5 million? Google would spend that much in a week
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“I'm doubtful the idea of a universal payment to everyone is going to come in soon, but the era of the Conservative is no doubt coming to an end so you never know,
The generation that gifted them almost constant power is dead or soon to be so.”
“I'm doubtful the idea of a universal payment to everyone is going to come in soon, but the era of the Conservative is no doubt coming to an end so you never know,
The generation that gifted them almost constant power is dead or soon to be so.”
Hardly, socialism is as dead as the dodo. its was buried in the eighties, and when it came back to life in Venezuela , Hollande's France, Latin America , and Greece the result was that it made bad situations much worse. its lost ground again, wherever it raised its head again.
The answer will be governments managing to get more of the tax take due, and introducing more support for those left out of the economic system by ability or location or will. But the majority , who will be doing rather nicely, won't want to spend much on those who don't contribute much. Student's social attitudes on issues other than race Europe, and the environmnent are not that different than baby boomers. They have no great desire to work hard to get qualifications, and then to pull in above average salaries, just to be taxed heavily to pay for those who didn't.
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Indeed, thats where we already are. The people with the education, imagination and get up and go, have moved into the new services and the old expanding professions. Their numbers have been increased by the success of females in education, and getting into the top jobs, at least at lower levels. They have been joined by the EU Immigrants with the skills needed, and the unskilled EU migrants who are prepared to do the nasty dirty jobs. London is now a global city providing financial , legal, cultural and design services to the world, and the successful areas of the economy have built into successful international trade. Add on the ,better paid, national sectors like health, train drivers, and the expanding research sector, and you have a lot of people doing well. Even the collapse in civil service manpowr has been matched by an expansion in teaching , and jobs in the privatised firms that now supply the same services. And these people are, in turn, serviced by people who provide them with services that are optional and dependant on people with enough disposal income living nearby - from wedding singers, coffee shops, and restaurants - to nail technicians, kitchen designers, and dog minders.
The problem is the people who are doing less well in English exams than newly arriving immigrants , have no manual jobs to do, who are in competition with student working part time, and smarter EU graduates, or living in isolated towns and cities where not much has happened for decades. Its far from clear what they do while the rest of the population enjoy rising living standards. Its also far from clear how a political system works, when a substantial part of the population has no stakes in the economy, and is looking for a Trump character to get behind and protest about it.”
“Indeed, thats where we already are. The people with the education, imagination and get up and go, have moved into the new services and the old expanding professions. Their numbers have been increased by the success of females in education, and getting into the top jobs, at least at lower levels. They have been joined by the EU Immigrants with the skills needed, and the unskilled EU migrants who are prepared to do the nasty dirty jobs. London is now a global city providing financial , legal, cultural and design services to the world, and the successful areas of the economy have built into successful international trade. Add on the ,better paid, national sectors like health, train drivers, and the expanding research sector, and you have a lot of people doing well. Even the collapse in civil service manpowr has been matched by an expansion in teaching , and jobs in the privatised firms that now supply the same services. And these people are, in turn, serviced by people who provide them with services that are optional and dependant on people with enough disposal income living nearby - from wedding singers, coffee shops, and restaurants - to nail technicians, kitchen designers, and dog minders.
The problem is the people who are doing less well in English exams than newly arriving immigrants , have no manual jobs to do, who are in competition with student working part time, and smarter EU graduates, or living in isolated towns and cities where not much has happened for decades. Its far from clear what they do while the rest of the population enjoy rising living standards. Its also far from clear how a political system works, when a substantial part of the population has no stakes in the economy, and is looking for a Trump character to get behind and protest about it.”
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Hardly, socialism is as dead as the dodo. its was buried in the eighties, and when it came back to life in Venezuela , Hollande's France, Latin America , and Greece the result was that it made bad situations much worse. its lost ground again, wherever it raised its head again.
The answer will be governments managing to get more of the tax take due, and introducing more support for those left out of the economic system by ability or location or will. But the majority , who will be doing rather nicely, won't want to spend much on those who don't contribute much. Student's social attitudes on issues other than race Europe, and the environmnent are not that different than baby boomers. They have no great desire to work hard to get qualifications, and then to pull in above average salaries, just to be taxed heavily to pay for those who didn't.”
“Hardly, socialism is as dead as the dodo. its was buried in the eighties, and when it came back to life in Venezuela , Hollande's France, Latin America , and Greece the result was that it made bad situations much worse. its lost ground again, wherever it raised its head again.
The answer will be governments managing to get more of the tax take due, and introducing more support for those left out of the economic system by ability or location or will. But the majority , who will be doing rather nicely, won't want to spend much on those who don't contribute much. Student's social attitudes on issues other than race Europe, and the environmnent are not that different than baby boomers. They have no great desire to work hard to get qualifications, and then to pull in above average salaries, just to be taxed heavily to pay for those who didn't.”
I don't think you got it in the end this will soon be the great leveler for people, within 50 years robots will be able to do most jobs, in 100 they will be able to do all of them and in 150 years they will be both mentally and physically better than us, so we had better be their friends not their enemies.
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Hardly, socialism is as dead as the dodo. its was buried in the eighties, and when it came back to life in Venezuela , Hollande's France, Latin America , and Greece the result was that it made bad situations much worse. its lost ground again, wherever it raised its head again. ”
“Hardly, socialism is as dead as the dodo. its was buried in the eighties, and when it came back to life in Venezuela , Hollande's France, Latin America , and Greece the result was that it made bad situations much worse. its lost ground again, wherever it raised its head again. ”
A universal guaranteed income is not necessarily a socialist construct - but is one way of dealing with gaps as the economy moves away from the traditional salaried work as we have known it in the post war years
Quote:
“The answer will be governments managing to get more of the tax take due, and introducing more support for those left out of the economic system by ability or location or will. But the majority , who will be doing rather nicely, won't want to spend much on those who don't contribute much. Student's social attitudes on issues other than race Europe, and the environmnent are not that different than baby boomers. They have no great desire to work hard to get qualifications, and then to pull in above average salaries, just to be taxed heavily to pay for those who didn't.”
“The answer will be governments managing to get more of the tax take due, and introducing more support for those left out of the economic system by ability or location or will. But the majority , who will be doing rather nicely, won't want to spend much on those who don't contribute much. Student's social attitudes on issues other than race Europe, and the environmnent are not that different than baby boomers. They have no great desire to work hard to get qualifications, and then to pull in above average salaries, just to be taxed heavily to pay for those who didn't.”
What you will find is increasing inequality as those who are able to take advantage and manipulate new technology as a creative tool and those who become the users of it (think Uber - rich, Uber driver - relatively poor). That is why we need a strong public sector ethos to ensure that as many people who can are in the former group.
(Yes I am aware that forthcoming autonomous cars will put the Uber Driver out of work - which while it may not be for the driver, for the rest of us this is a good thing, if only because humans make dreadful drivers).
Originally Posted by paulschapman:
“A universal guaranteed income is not necessarily a socialist construct - but is one way of dealing with gaps as the economy moves away from the traditional salaried work as we have known it in the post war years
What you will find is increasing inequality as those who are able to take advantage and manipulate new technology as a creative tool and those who become the users of it (think Uber - rich, Uber driver - relatively poor). That is why we need a strong public sector ethos to ensure that as many people who can are in the former group.
(Yes I am aware that forthcoming autonomous cars will put the Uber Driver out of work - which while it may not be for the driver, for the rest of us this is a good thing, if only because humans make dreadful drivers).”
“A universal guaranteed income is not necessarily a socialist construct - but is one way of dealing with gaps as the economy moves away from the traditional salaried work as we have known it in the post war years
What you will find is increasing inequality as those who are able to take advantage and manipulate new technology as a creative tool and those who become the users of it (think Uber - rich, Uber driver - relatively poor). That is why we need a strong public sector ethos to ensure that as many people who can are in the former group.
(Yes I am aware that forthcoming autonomous cars will put the Uber Driver out of work - which while it may not be for the driver, for the rest of us this is a good thing, if only because humans make dreadful drivers).”
Could it affect all taxi drivers because there is a lot of them, plus many people fall back on doing taxi driving for a while with they have no other work or lose a job.
Originally Posted by Net Nut:
“Could it affect all taxi drivers because there is a lot of them, plus many people fall back on doing taxi driving for a while with they have no other work or lose a job.”
“Could it affect all taxi drivers because there is a lot of them, plus many people fall back on doing taxi driving for a while with they have no other work or lose a job.”
Yes. However like all such things there are two sides to this - on the one side you have the driver - on the other there are thousands killed on the road in accidents, injuries - people are just not very good drivers.
On the other there are various things people might be able to do - such as AirBnB as a means of supplementing income. I can see people working in peer groups and often more than one. An example is detailed here - turning those collaborative groups into an income stream maybe one way - but that is why you need a universal guaranteed income - as I former freelancer I am well aware the difficulties of dealing with an income which is inconsistent - often sliding between famine and feast - even when sensible and saving money.
The trouble is that it is going to need good education to be able to spot and take advantage
Originally Posted by paulschapman:
“Yes. However like all such things there are two sides to this - on the one side you have the driver - on the other there are thousands killed on the road in accidents, injuries - people are just not very good drivers.
On the other there are various things people might be able to do - such as AirBnB as a means of supplementing income. I can see people working in peer groups and often more than one. An example is detailed here - turning those collaborative groups into an income stream maybe one way - but that is why you need a universal guaranteed income - as I former freelancer I am well aware the difficulties of dealing with an income which is inconsistent - often sliding between famine and feast - even when sensible and saving money.
The trouble is that it is going to need good education to be able to spot and take advantage”
“Yes. However like all such things there are two sides to this - on the one side you have the driver - on the other there are thousands killed on the road in accidents, injuries - people are just not very good drivers.
On the other there are various things people might be able to do - such as AirBnB as a means of supplementing income. I can see people working in peer groups and often more than one. An example is detailed here - turning those collaborative groups into an income stream maybe one way - but that is why you need a universal guaranteed income - as I former freelancer I am well aware the difficulties of dealing with an income which is inconsistent - often sliding between famine and feast - even when sensible and saving money.
The trouble is that it is going to need good education to be able to spot and take advantage”
Some interesting things on the link you provided - thanks
3D/4D printing could be the real game changer. Some of the expectations seem long away, but printing clothes or consumer parts from home or at least locally doesn't seem too far away. Just that in itself will have a dramatic impact on the retail sector.
Most of the baby boomer politicians who comprise governments don't seem to get where the world is heading. The internet and DNA research as we know it is still quite young and 3D printing, nanotech, robots are developing at a rapid rate. That's without mentioning AI.
Most of the baby boomer politicians who comprise governments don't seem to get where the world is heading. The internet and DNA research as we know it is still quite young and 3D printing, nanotech, robots are developing at a rapid rate. That's without mentioning AI.
Originally Posted by Lee_Smith2:
“3D/4D printing could be the real game changer. Some of the expectations seem long away, but printing clothes or consumer parts from home or at least locally doesn't seem too far away. Just that in itself will have a dramatic impact on the retail sector.
Most of the baby boomer politicians who comprise governments don't seem to get where the world is heading. The internet and DNA research as we know it is still quite young and 3D printing, nanotech, robots are developing at a rapid rate. That's without mentioning AI.”
“3D/4D printing could be the real game changer. Some of the expectations seem long away, but printing clothes or consumer parts from home or at least locally doesn't seem too far away. Just that in itself will have a dramatic impact on the retail sector.
Most of the baby boomer politicians who comprise governments don't seem to get where the world is heading. The internet and DNA research as we know it is still quite young and 3D printing, nanotech, robots are developing at a rapid rate. That's without mentioning AI.”
What is 4D printing?
Originally Posted by Lee_Smith2:
“3D/4D printing could be the real game changer. Some of the expectations seem long away, but printing clothes or consumer parts from home or at least locally doesn't seem too far away. Just that in itself will have a dramatic impact on the retail sector..”
“3D/4D printing could be the real game changer. Some of the expectations seem long away, but printing clothes or consumer parts from home or at least locally doesn't seem too far away. Just that in itself will have a dramatic impact on the retail sector..”
A lot of industries are - the spare parts industry for a start - it makes no economic sense to have a factory churning out spare parts to sit on a shelf until someone needs them. Far better to have some design on the internet, download it and make it on demand (it would also reduce waste which has environmental advantages).
With improved materials science there is so much that can now be 3D printed - including but not limited to human organs, houses and cars, sensors - we are on the cusp of huge changes in manufacturing and the economic effect is going to be profound.
Originally Posted by paulschapman:
“http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...computing-jobs
As someone who works with software - I seriously doubt this will be the case. You might find that in discrete tasks a robot might be at this level. Even complex tasks such as driving - but humans are versatile creatures - you will not find that a robot will be able to replace that in what amounts to 14 years. Of course it depends on what you mean by human level intelligence - that could mean the intelligence of a 3 year old - but nobody is going to put a 3 year old in charge”
“http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...computing-jobs
As someone who works with software - I seriously doubt this will be the case. You might find that in discrete tasks a robot might be at this level. Even complex tasks such as driving - but humans are versatile creatures - you will not find that a robot will be able to replace that in what amounts to 14 years. Of course it depends on what you mean by human level intelligence - that could mean the intelligence of a 3 year old - but nobody is going to put a 3 year old in charge”
Intelligence is hard to measure, however physical agility/ability is not. I'll eat my own face if by 2030 a robot is plumbing, wiring, fixing old cars, selling-out gigs, playing sport etc. etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36024160
" Research firm Gartner estimates that up to 85% of customer service centres will go virtual by 2020."
That's a lot of jobs here and around the world and 2020 is not far away?
What are they going to do with all the wages saved?
" Research firm Gartner estimates that up to 85% of customer service centres will go virtual by 2020."
That's a lot of jobs here and around the world and 2020 is not far away?
What are they going to do with all the wages saved?
Originally Posted by Net Nut:
“http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36024160
" Research firm Gartner estimates that up to 85% of customer service centres will go virtual by 2020."
That's a lot of jobs here and around the world and 2020 is not far away?
What are they going to do with all the wages saved?”
“http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36024160
" Research firm Gartner estimates that up to 85% of customer service centres will go virtual by 2020."
That's a lot of jobs here and around the world and 2020 is not far away?
What are they going to do with all the wages saved?”
Give out rewards to executives and move the majority of the money out to tax havens probably. It'll mean a big loss in tax earnings, both from the company itself and from all the people who lose work and either end up in lower paying jobs or not working at all.
Welcome to the future.
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