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What will politicians do when there are no/few hard working families due to robots? |
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#76 |
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 684
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The politicians will have to find another cliche
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#77 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,231
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Meet the robots in Amazon's UK warehouses -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37114318 And - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37106570 " Ford reveals driverless taxi plan." Which could also be used for lorries and buses. Also - Takeaway app Just Eat to test delivery robots - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36723089 Moped delivery drivers costs firms around £5 a delivery. Robot delivery around £1 a delivery. If this goes on we really will soon need the universal guaranteed income/payment by the government? Paid for by some sort of robot/technology tax, or society won't have money to spend to keep the whole consumer system going. |
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#78 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,735
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Quote:
If this goes on we really will soon need the universal guaranteed income/payment by the government?
Paid for by some sort of robot/technology tax, or society won't have money to spend to keep the whole consumer system going. |
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#79 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 43,320
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That is a given as employment patterns will be less safe than they have been, with more self-employed. But you are also going to see that the old idea of having a career and retiring after 40-50 years vanishes to be replaced by more transient careers/income generating sources - which again would require some form of UBI - to cover the periods when one is changing a career.
From a business perspective, getting in first would potentially give us the most flexible workforce of any first world nation. We're already well up that list compared to many of our EU neighbours, but getting up even higher may help counterbalance some of damage Brexit is going to cause. |
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#80 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,735
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I think some form of UBI is vital if we want change to be welcomed rather than resisted. I'd prefer to see some form of political consensus on this rather than political parties making it into an issue to attack certain left-wing parties on. This is not something that's ultimately either left or right wing. I've seen arguments from across the political spectrum supporting it.
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From a business perspective, getting in first would potentially give us the most flexible workforce of any first world nation. We're already well up that list compared to many of our EU neighbours, but getting up even higher may help counterbalance some of damage Brexit is going to cause.
We had one of the most flexible workforce's in Europe - at least until New Labour stamped down on it because there BigCo Consultancy paymasters did not like a little competition - the poor dears (no I have not given leave to my senses and have no sympathy for them whatsoever)
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#81 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,231
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How to build a human -
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/entert...out_AI_robots/ http://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-...ona-Synthetics https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/tv/ch...build-a-human/ Ten years they will be doing easy things along side us, 20 years they will be able to do almost anything we can, 30 years? |
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#82 |
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 45
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"The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment."
Warren Bennis I can't remember exactly when I first heard this quote, and it may not even be his own words, but I have an idea it was when the drive to install 'robots,' automated machinery, in factories, especially car factories was gaining pace. It must have been a while ago. Not sure how far into the future he was talking about though. It hasn't happened yet. |
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#83 |
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 45
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The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.
Warren Bennis I can't remember exactly when I first heard this quote, and it may not even be his own words, but I have an idea it was when the drive to install 'robots,' automated machinery in factories especially car factories, was gaining pace. It must have been a while ago. Not sure how far into the future he was talking about though. It hasn't happened yet. |
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#84 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,231
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Came across this -
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...rrester-report “ By 2021 a disruptive tidal wave will begin. Solutions powered by AI/cognitive technology will displace jobs, with the biggest impact felt in transportation, logistics, customer service and consumer services,” said Forrester’s Brian Hopkins in the report." " By 2021, robots will have eliminated 6% of all jobs in the US, starting with customer service representatives and eventually truck and taxi drivers. That’s just one cheery takeaway from a report released by market research company Forrester this week." " These robots, or intelligent agents, represent a set of AI-powered systems that can understand human behavior and make decisions on our behalf. Current technologies in this field include virtual assistants like Alexa, Cortana, Siri and Google Now as well as chatbots and automated robotic systems. For now, they are quite simple, but over the next five years they will become much better at making decisions on our behalf in more complex scenarios, which will enable mass adoption of breakthroughs like self-driving cars." This is going to be bad and 2021 is not very long away, but our governments are doing nothing to prepare for the impact, in 5 years when all this starts to happen we could have major riots unless they put something like a guaranteed minimum income in place to help people. Another worry is that it will happen about the same time as the impacts from Brexit as well. |
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#85 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,215
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I am for robots
Let them do the work, we can just sit back! |
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#86 |
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 650
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Be a sad day when the first advanced AI robot kills a human but claims it was in self-defence or a mistake. Can you imagine a robot on trial for murder? Be quite bizarre!
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#87 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 10,237
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Make Robots MP's. Oh wait.....
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#88 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,141
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I'm told someone's developing a device that can post several hundred random thoughts a minute on the internet, such as 'What if jellyfish could survive out of water and wanted to eat our jaffa cakes?' and 'What if emulsion paint smelled of macaroni cheese and macaroni cheese smelled of emulsion paint?'. Apparently it's called Project Nutnet. The ramifications if it ever sees the light of day don't bear thinking about.
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#89 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,995
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Tax robots who will respond with "no representation, no taxation".
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#90 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,806
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Everyone in the loop seems to win but, we know better don't we? Amazon let the robots do the walking and one picker now replaces 100 pickers so 99 people are unemployed. Add to that Amazon being more efficient puts less efficient competitors (those with employees) out of business so there's a few more job centre appointments. The robots have names btw. |
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#91 |
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London Town
Posts: 147
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It's not so much Robots as AI that I'm most worried about.
A genuine AI could get rid of most of the Service Industries, who needs Sales Ledger people when there's an Accounts AI interfacing with other suppliers Accounting AI's Our electronic bidding systems now have done away with a whole department whose job it was to find the best price for goods not out systems just poll all our suppliers in a matter of seconds and have locked in a price and made the purchase which we'll pay automatically |
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#92 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,052
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AI plus nanotech= post scarcity utopia
basically, The Culture, for those familiar with Iain M Banks all you need is Hydrogen and tiny little robots can make everything out of that, leaving them to evolve into beings capable of running a perfect society, with humans as pets with every whim attended to Quote:
The wonderful Iain M Banks has already imagined such a time.
We will be looked after by benevolent AI minds who will provide everything we desire. Work will be optional and we will life in a post-scarcity society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture |
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#93 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,482
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Sounds good but where will the money come from to do something like this for everyone?
Of course we will have to switch to a more left wing Government before this can happen. |
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#94 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 43,320
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Alternatively, automisation could lead to a Gene Roddenberry type utopia?
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#95 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,482
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Did anyone see that advert for Amazon Go Shopping a few weeks ago?
Scan your phone as you enter a shop , whatever you take from a shelf gets added to an online basket and then you walk out of the shop. No tills, no queing and no checkout assistants. Whatever you picked up gets charged to your Amazon account after you leave the shop. Think of the impact that would have on retail jobs if tech like that became widespread over all the chain stores. In the next 20 years we could be looking at half the population being out of work from robotics and tech like that. The government have two options. Universal income, reduced hours for staff, more time spent on creativity, voluntary activities and time with the community and friends, higher taxes for businesses whose costs of production are far lower. Everyone wins and we all get to live in a sort of utopia compared to how things are now. The other option is a situation where half the population are unemployed and relying on benefits. The Government has no money due to lower taxes so benefits are kept low and so huge swathes of the population are homeless or can't afford to buy food. This is why universal income has be forced through by the Goverment and capitalism has to fall by the wayside in our long term. |
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#96 |
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,311
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The robots will make and transport everything. The people will either fight each other or just watch. It's happening already.
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#97 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,425
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We will find something more productive to do.
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#98 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 43,320
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Quote:
Did anyone see that advert for Amazon Go Shopping a few weeks ago?
Scan your phone as you enter a shop , whatever you take from a shelf gets added to an online basket and then you walk out of the shop. No tills, no queing and no checkout assistants. Whatever you picked up gets charged to your Amazon account after you leave the shop. Think of the impact that would have on retail jobs if tech like that became widespread over all the chain stores. In the next 20 years we could be looking at half the population being out of work from robotics and tech like that. The government have two options. Universal income, reduced hours for staff, more time spent on creativity, voluntary activities and time with the community and friends, higher taxes for businesses whose costs of production are far lower. Everyone wins and we all get to live in a sort of utopia compared to how things are now. The other option is a situation where half the population are unemployed and relying on benefits. The Government has no money due to lower taxes so benefits are kept low and so huge swathes of the population are homeless or can't afford to buy food. This is why universal income has be forced through by the Goverment and capitalism has to fall by the wayside in our long term. Things will only be automated if it's cheaper to do this than it is to employ people to do it, but those workers won't have any leverage to apply to improve wages or working conditions. The best thing that governments can do to prevent this is to keep increasing the minimum income rates until these jobs are automated and, as you say, replace this awful mundane work with an income that allows these people to do something more interesting with their lives. Let the machines do the dull stuff. |
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#99 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,806
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Quote:
Did anyone see that advert for Amazon Go Shopping a few weeks ago?
Scan your phone as you enter a shop , whatever you take from a shelf gets added to an online basket and then you walk out of the shop. No tills, no queing and no checkout assistants. Whatever you picked up gets charged to your Amazon account after you leave the shop. Think of the impact that would have on retail jobs if tech like that became widespread over all the chain stores. In the next 20 years we could be looking at half the population being out of work from robotics and tech like that. The government have two options. Universal income, reduced hours for staff, more time spent on creativity, voluntary activities and time with the community and friends, higher taxes for businesses whose costs of production are far lower. Everyone wins and we all get to live in a sort of utopia compared to how things are now. The other option is a situation where half the population are unemployed and relying on benefits. The Government has no money due to lower taxes so benefits are kept low and so huge swathes of the population are homeless or can't afford to buy food. This is why universal income has be forced through by the Goverment and capitalism has to fall by the wayside in our long term. |
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