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EastEnders: Den's return - was it a success or a failure?


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Old 09-07-2015, 19:58
jamesc_715
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Den Watts returned to Walford in 2003 but he "died" in 1989. Den's return from the dead was controversial but it led to some great storylines for the Watts. Den's first week were explosive and there was some great acting performances from Letitia Dean and Leslie Grantham.

But I can't help but wonder if his return was a flop. I loved his stint in 2003-2005 but I felt that they brought him back as this Machiavellian figure and he was literally "Dirty Den" in his second stint. Den became a bit obsessed with Sharon.

Do you think his return was a success or do you think it was a flop?
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Old 09-07-2015, 20:06
bumpandgrind
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It worked to start with but they didn't know what to do with him. He spent the first year walking around the Square with his hands in his pockets.

By the time he eventually got the Vic back, Sharon and Vicky fled, Dennis was stuck in a false pregnancy story with Zoe and Den's partnership with Chrissy was on the rocks.
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Old 09-07-2015, 20:14
bass55
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I think overall Den's return was a failure, and that's evident in the fact he was killed off again just 18 months later.

I absolutely loved the reconstructed Watts family in 2003/04, but for a long time Den really didn't have much to do. In all honesty I don't know why they didn't put him back in the Vic straight away rather than just two months before he croaked it again. There was so much potential for drama there but it was wasted.

Of course, webcam-gate had a big part to play in this but it was also pretty clear the producers didn't know where to take Den. He developed a weird obsession with Sharon that I don't think was there in his original stint, and eventually Den just became a 'dirty old man'. I'm genuinely undecided as to whether killing him off again was a mistake, but it certainly provided the 20th anniversary year with a truly brilliant storyline.
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Old 09-07-2015, 20:14
Eastenderstreet
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long-term it failed, they thought they were great for bringing him back but once they did that they didn't know what to do with him as bumpandgrind has said above!
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Old 09-07-2015, 20:20
bumpandgrind
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Hopefully they won't repeat the mistake with Kathy - however I suspect Kath will slot back into the show with relative ease as she doesn't need a venue, such as the Vic, or even the cafe, to work as a character.

Den needed the Vic. Without it he was a bit lost.
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Old 09-07-2015, 20:25
NoughtiesMusic
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It was a mistake to kill him off, in the long run. It's understandable that Leslie Grantham got axed for his behaviour off screen, but IMO he should've departed in the back of a cab. Sure it gave us the brilliant Chrissie/Sam feud but look at how bad 2006 was in the absence of high profile characters and a whole load of new characters still to be established. There was never a proper confrontation/storyline between Peggy/Phil and Den which could've been explored. Leslie Grantham could've been brought back by another EP. Kathleen Hutchinson was pig headed for actually killing him off after it took so long to get him back on screen.

Den's return shouldn't be seen as a failure by itself. It started strongly, but the problems need to be seen in the context how of terrible EE was in 2004. Louise Berridge went through a hell of a time dealing with a stalker in her personal life, various scripts had to be rewritten due to characters absences, the show moved to four nights a week (tough for the crew at the time) and EE was on the end of bad press.

Berridge was a capable EP who was the victim of unfortunate circumstances. She started off fantastically, mind you. So much better than Bryan Kirkwood and Kate Harwood who were terrible.
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Old 09-07-2015, 20:58
lou_123
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It was a failure long term and allowed Coronation Street to take over as the top soap, but it lead to a fantastic 2005.

Some of the episodes/scenes are all on YouTube now. Great stuff, especially when Sam dug up Den's body on Sharon and Dennis's wedding day, and it all lead to some great stuff with the Slater's, and Peggy, Grant and Phil's return.
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Old 09-07-2015, 21:39
spursboy68
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It was a mistake to kill him off, in the long run. It's understandable that Leslie Grantham got axed for his behaviour off screen, but IMO he should've departed in the back of a cab. Sure it gave us the brilliant Chrissie/Sam feud but look at how bad 2006 was in the absence of high profile characters and a whole load of new characters still to be established. There was never a proper confrontation/storyline between Peggy/Phil and Den which could've been explored. Leslie Grantham could've been brought back by another EP. Kathleen Hutchinson was pig headed for actually killing him off after it took so long to get him back on screen.

Den's return shouldn't be seen as a failure by itself. It started strongly, but the problems need to be seen in the context how of terrible EE was in 2004. Louise Berridge went through a hell of a time dealing with a stalker in her personal life, various scripts had to be rewritten due to characters absences, the show moved to four nights a week (tough for the crew at the time) and EE was on the end of bad press.

Berridge was a capable EP who was the victim of unfortunate circumstances. She started off fantastically, mind you. So much better than Bryan Kirkwood and Kate Harwood who were terrible.
I thought he was axed because he didn't agree with the future direction of the character. Kathleen Hutchinson, then EP, got hers anyway.
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Old 09-07-2015, 21:44
SteveOwen
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It was awful. A legendary character was resurrected as a pervy, creepy old man, with a weird obsession with his daughter. And Grantham's acting was the pits. He couldn't have made it more obvious that he was just counting the money.
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Old 09-07-2015, 21:44
spursboy68
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Saying that. I think it was his decision to leave. Could be wrong.
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Old 09-07-2015, 23:57
0...0
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It was a mistake to kill him off, in the long run. It's understandable that Leslie Grantham got axed for his behaviour off screen, but IMO he should've departed in the back of a cab. Sure it gave us the brilliant Chrissie/Sam feud but look at how bad 2006 was in the absence of high profile characters and a whole load of new characters still to be established. There was never a proper confrontation/storyline between Peggy/Phil and Den which could've been explored. Leslie Grantham could've been brought back by another EP. Kathleen Hutchinson was pig headed for actually killing him off after it took so long to get him back on screen.

Den's return shouldn't be seen as a failure by itself. It started strongly, but the problems need to be seen in the context how of terrible EE was in 2004. Louise Berridge went through a hell of a time dealing with a stalker in her personal life, various scripts had to be rewritten due to characters absences, the show moved to four nights a week (tough for the crew at the time) and EE was on the end of bad press.

Berridge was a capable EP who was the victim of unfortunate circumstances. She started off fantastically, mind you. So much better than Bryan Kirkwood and Kate Harwood who were terrible.
I agree with this. I loved Den's return. His return episode was electric and the first and last few months were brilliant. Such a shame about all the off screen stuff that went on.
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Old 10-07-2015, 00:14
Belligerence
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I'd say success. It gave us Chrissie.
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Old 10-07-2015, 00:23
Seymour Butts
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Leslie Grantham wasn't sacked because of the webcam stuff. He was suspended and Den went to Spain and came back with the obligatory straw donkey.

The problem they had with Den was that they played too much on the legend of Dirty Den rather than the actual character of Den Wattts. It's often misquoted but Sonia telling Martin to get Den because there was trouble after the cardboard fairground collapsed was ridiculous. She might as well have said get the legendary character so he can save the day and be the big man
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Old 10-07-2015, 00:27
owen10
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It worked because he set up Phil over the robbery and he went to jail while Dirty Den ruled Walford once more and also he took over the Vic which is rightfully his and him running the pub was great it was a shame it ended him being killed off because he would have been a fantastic character again and we would not have King Phil
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Old 10-07-2015, 00:30
Scorpio2
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His return was more believable than Kathy's IMO but the writers ruined it, He was wasted for a year and he was not the same Den Watts from the 80's.

Also he didn't even get the Vic back until months before he was killed off.
Such a waste.
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Old 10-07-2015, 02:22
dd68
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Dreadful, and horrific, he was never a good character in the first place
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Old 10-07-2015, 02:34
dd68
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I hated him form the start and was always fascinatedby the attraction to bring him back, did not work at all.
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