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Massive masts |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 652
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Massive masts
...wants to scrap rules which allow councils to block plans for masts taller than 15metres which could help with the rollout of 4G coverage. ... have launched a consultation on scrapping planning permissions for taller mobile masts, 'in order to support improved mobile connectivity in rural areas'.
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#2 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,887
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Why are you reading the Daily Fail.
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#3 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 652
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It was a link in a search engine tech news. There's more links, they should put one up next to Big Ben.
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#4 |
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,325
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Vodafone posted in their blog the other day that this prevented them from building their network out as much as they liked because they couldn't build the masts tall enough.
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#5 |
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 31
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@light, think that's Voda PR spin, blame the Govt for their lack of motivation & investment in their network - they've got masts by me that haven't been touched in 20 years - 2G pitchforks!
I would say they need shorter more confined & specific coverage, giving capacity and very good localised coverage is what's needed - hidden in lampposts etc easy to pick up backhaul. Giant masts are more or less done! But hay, who I am I to tell Voda how to roll out & operate a network considering they're top by almost all metrics - in the Twilight zone! |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,455
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Good. Let's get decent 4g coverage everwhere.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,325
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Yeah it's a great big load of spin. They seek to be in a phase of blaming everyone else for their problems like my teenage son! I remember when Olaf Swantee took over EE he blamed the government for the fact we were behind everyone else in 4g rollout, perhaps more true in that case but Vodafone need to look no further than themselves. Compared to EE and Three though they had it easy with their 900MHz spectrum.
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,879
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Anything that gives NIMBYs less power is to be welcomed.
Although Vodafone's dire data coverage is entirely their own fault. EE, Three and even (to a very small extent) O2 have managed to build better data networks with their current masts. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 22,810
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Quote:
Anything that gives NIMBYs less power is to be welcomed.
Quote:
Although Vodafone's dire data coverage is entirely their own fault. EE, Three and even (to a very small extent) O2 have managed to build better data networks with their current masts. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,455
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Quote:
Strange how people say this, until it affects them. It is a different thing then
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#11 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Totnes, Devon
Posts: 6,694
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Didn't EE have plans to raise the height of a lot of existing masts anyway?
What happened to that plan? |
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#12 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
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Take a look at the comments on the Daily Fail article
. I lose brain cells every time I visit that site.If we were able to have really tall sites, they could be few and far between with small cells covering highly populated areas or harder to reach locations. Mobile signals can travel really quite far, coverage could be much improved especially in the countryside. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West
Posts: 4,885
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Bigger cells does not mean better service or coverage. I hope all networks follow the trend EE and Vodafone have been setting by installing smaller masts in more locations. This will help with capacity and coverage. As superfast broadband is rolled out further it means 4G in theory could be delivered to more people. Generally nowadays "massive masts" tend to host all networks as opposed to say EE and Three like it is with MBNL. Obviously that isn't universal, large masts are expensive to install and maintain.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 499
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I blame trees the pesky things keep growing and out sizing there neighbours in all honesty masts up to 20m should not need planning if they are more than 100m from residential houses
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 870
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Tories doing something I agree with
![]() I'd very much welcome this. Vodafone had a 3G mast planned just around the corner a few years ago, but of course NIMBYs (which around here are very active, they're always stopping plans for masts and supermarkets) did a massive campaign about the planned "eyesore" and put a stop to it. I'm more of a WIMBY, they're more than welcome in ours. Literally, put one in the back yard, it'd be awesome ![]() There are already huge masts everywhere now anyway due to the new train signalling system which was exempt from planning permission. I remember when one popped up here and I thought "how on earth did they get that one under the radar?!" before learning about the exemption. (To be fair, this one IS actually a bit ugly and doesn't really add anything to anything despite my ramblings below). It's a pity they don't share them with the mobile networks. There's always so much complaining about anything that's visible or audible, it's like everyone just wants to live on their own little island where they can't see or hear anything. We got on just fine with electricity pylons and telegraph poles, I don't know their history (I'll save that study to Arnold Rimmer) but imagine if we had the same fuss about those. It's all subjective - whilst some think it ruins it, I think our technological infrastructure can add character to nature's scenery: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2829/...9b6e04cb_b.jpg I think the wind farms that people keep complaining about can be very pretty as well. I don't have any of my photos of those to hand but they can look great against a sunset. People need to try and see the beauty in things more rather than having such a limited scope of what looks nice and seeing everything else in the world as "eyesores" getting in the way. Mankind is constantly advancing its technology and capabilities and enjoying more and more diversity in things like architecture as well, and that's something to be seen and enjoyed IMO. |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 620
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Quote:
Bigger cells does not mean better service or coverage.
It doesn't work everywhere. We need a combination of everything, not just large sites, not just small sites. Relaxed planning permissions on large sites can only help coverage. |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 22,810
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No man is an island. We all have to put up with certain things for the common good. And it's fairly easy not to look at a mast if it offends you.
The other problem is that these people who complain about masts are the first ones to complain when they have no signal on their phone/. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,212
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Plenty of places to put masts that are out of site, but it costs more money, so they prefer to build taller and taller masts in places where they look out of place.
The other problem is that these people who complain about masts are the first ones to complain when they have no signal on their phone/. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,644
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Quote:
I blame trees the pesky things keep growing and out sizing there neighbours in all honesty masts up to 20m should not need planning if they are more than 100m from residential houses
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#20 |
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,662
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Quote:
I blame trees the pesky things keep growing and out sizing there neighbours in all honesty masts up to 20m should not need planning if they are more than 100m from residential houses
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#21 |
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West
Posts: 4,885
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Quote:
I'd very much welcome this. Vodafone had a 3G mast planned just around the corner a few years ago, but of course NIMBYs (which around here are very active, they're always stopping plans for masts and supermarkets) did a massive campaign about the planned "eyesore" and put a stop to it. I'm more of a WIMBY, they're more than welcome in ours. Literally, put one in the back yard, it'd be awesome
![]() There are already huge masts everywhere now anyway due to the new train signalling system which was exempt from planning permission. I remember when one popped up here and I thought "how on earth did they get that one under the radar?!" before learning about the exemption. (To be fair, this one IS actually a bit ugly and doesn't really add anything to anything despite my ramblings below). It's a pity they don't share them with the mobile networks It is said Network Rail has the larges mobile infrastructure dwarfing that of even EE, who have thousands of masts. The other thing some of the frequencies Network Rail use are in the 400 range similar to emergency services, Airwave unless I am mistaken. Given the decline in Government funding for rail projects its likely Network Rail will enter into some kind of agreement similar to Arquiva has with the big 4. I still think the future will be in smaller cells more easily deployed in areas with superfast broadband availability. Its only in small numbers at the moment, as and when Virgin Media & Openreach open their cabinets there should be dramatic improvements in city and suburban areas. BT/Openreach will likely be one of the providers that will spearhead 4G in more rural locations due to FTTC rollout. |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West
Posts: 4,885
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Quote:
I don't see why not. When 4G first rolled out in my area on Three, they enabled one site, a huge pylon site that has all networks on it, it's about 2 miles away from me in a straight line. I didn't get coverage indoors but it worked fine outside. This kind of coverage is fantastic for motorways and vast countryside-type places.
It doesn't work everywhere. We need a combination of everything, not just large sites, not just small sites. Relaxed planning permissions on large sites can only help coverage. The point I make is that more small to medium sized maps are the best way to ensure coverage and service. EE is in a very good place right now, prior to the joint venture T-Mobile had a network to die for, Orange came on bored and was shat on. Since then they have spent huge somes bringing both legacy masts/networks up to scratch. They have more masts in 2G/3G than O2 and Vodafone combined, that was down to needing to erect more because of 1800 range nor being as agile as 900 in terms of reach. EE has one of the best networks in the world in respect of the 3 technologies it uses, its for that reason they win so much praise. EE's network upgrade/rollout should be admired and crucially emulated, they are blazing a trail. |
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#23 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 22,810
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Quote:
Problem is with out of sight is that it means out of coverage. The frequencies used by mobile phones are pretty much 'line of sight'.
Not that I have any problem myself with large masts. I know that the frequencies that mobile phone uses are line of sight., as the wavelengh are so small they bounce around structures more so than penetrating like the larger lower frequencies. |
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 282
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Just to add to some of the comments on here...
Bigger cells does not always mean better coverage but in certain locations the extra height would be a massive benefit. Big macro cells that are 30m+ provide 'coverage', cells ~15m provide capacity, a good networks needs a blend of both in the right place. Mobile phones do NOT work on line of sight, different frequencies penetrate buildings differently. Forcing Network Rail to open up near trackside masts would be a huge benefit to all rail users and those who live nearby, right now the 'fix' for rail coverage is 800Mhz LTE with VoLTE. If money was no object it would be ideal to have a grid of large macro sites providing 98%+ coverage with thousands of small cells in the center of town and villages providing the capacity and in-building coverage people desire. |
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. I lose brain cells every time I visit that site.