Apple Pay

enapace · 18-09-2015, 13:53

Quote:

Supposed to be "coming soon", at least for Tesco (outside London, London is already supposed to have it). I noticed that Morrisons now has contactless in some of their supermarkets.

I remember seeing ones in a Tesco in London over a year ago so there coming soon isn't exactly fast lol.

But yeah I've noticed them in morrisons just don't go there very often.

Grayburn · 18-09-2015, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

Supposed to be "coming soon", at least for Tesco (outside London, London is already supposed to have it). I noticed that Morrisons now has contactless in some of their supermarkets.

I live in Essex and Tesco, Asda & Morrisons all have contactless terminals.

But i probably am in the closest part of Essex to London.

enapace · 18-09-2015, 13:58

Heard that Walmart in America are refusing support Apple Pay because of the Credit/Debit Card fees which is crazy. All down to profits and money pinching.

anyonefortennis · 18-09-2015, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

Heard that Walmart in America are refusing support Apple Pay because of the Credit/Debit Card fees which is crazy. All down to profits and money pinching.

Asda is part of Walmart so that probably means Asda won't get it either.

anyonefortennis · 18-09-2015, 14:03

Deleted

Grayburn · 18-09-2015, 14:08

Thought i'd give my views on Apple Pay since Halifax got their finger out and sorted it.

I work in London and have been using it for a week. I use it to and from work on the Oyster gates at the stations i travel to & from. I've used it on the underground, in McDonald's,Boots & Tesco Metro, i've not had one problem with it, very handy indeed.

It's a hell of a lot easier then getting my wallet out of my inside pocket, getting required card etc etc.

anyonefortennis · 18-09-2015, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayburn

Thought i'd give my views on Apple Pay since Halifax got their finger out and sorted it.

I work in London and have been using it for a week. I use it to and from work on the Oyster gates at the stations i travel to & from. I've used it on the underground, in McDonald's,Boots & Tesco Metro, i've not had one problem with it, very handy indeed.

It's a hell of a lot easier then getting my wallet out of my inside pocket, getting required card etc etc.

Can you confirm to other posters that it is no different to using an Oyster card time wise.

IslandNiles · 18-09-2015, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

Can you confirm to other posters that it is no different to using an Oyster card time wise.

Back on page 12, I talked about the experience of using it on the Tube.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandNiles

I'm in London this weekend. I was a bit scared to use Apple Pay yesterday but tried it today. Basically, I would recommend opening Passbook and authenticating using the home button before you approach the gates. If you do this, the gates open pretty much instantly, the same as using an Oyster or contactless card. If you just hold the locked phone over the reader with your thumb on the home button, it takes maybe four seconds to complete the process. Obviously that's pretty quick, but it definitely doesn't feel it with a queue of people behind you expecting to get through without any delay at all!

It's definitely slower than Oyster and contactless if you don't pre-authorise it on the phone first. If you pre-authorise, which is now easy to do with the phone locked (double press the home button from the lock screen to access Apple Pay), it's instant at the gate. I think once you pre-authorise, you have a minute to complete the transaction.

anyonefortennis · 18-09-2015, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandNiles

Back on page 12, I talked about the experience of using it on the Tube.

It's definitely slower than Oyster and contactless if you don't pre-authorise it on the phone first. If you pre-authorise, which is now easy to do with the phone locked (double press the home button from the lock screen to access Apple Pay), it's instant at the gate. I think once you pre-authorise, you have a minute to complete the transaction.

Was that before or after iOS 9 with quicker access to Wallet now? Oh scratch that question. I've just seen you said it's quicker now with Apple Wallet.

enapace · 18-09-2015, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

Asda is part of Walmart so that probably means Asda won't get it either.

Honestly it makes no sense to me though surely they already pay those fees on debit and credit cards anyway so why does it make a difference if they pay them via Apple Pay do Apple charge a small bit extra as well?

anyonefortennis · 18-09-2015, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

Honestly it makes no sense to me though surely they already pay those fees on debit and credit cards anyway so why does it make a difference if they pay them via Apple Pay do Apple charge a small bit extra as well?

Maybe Apple are charging more or they get a better deal or incentives with the banks.

jonmorris · 18-09-2015, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

Can you confirm to other posters that it is no different to using an Oyster card time wise.

Oyster will be quicker because of the way those cards work compared to CPC and phone based systems, but Oyster itself is changing quite markedly next year to make it far more advanced and flexible.

The difference is pretty insignificant though, but if people faff around with their phone (just as with a wallet) at the gatelines during the peaks then it's going to be annoying.

With Oyster, most people generally have a separate Oyster wallet and have it good to go. CPCs and phones will change that, as you probably have to remove your card or prep your phone.

Personally, I'm happy with Oyster (but that's also because it's the only way I can get 35% off travel in and around London when using PAYG!).

Grayburn · 18-09-2015, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandNiles

Back on page 12, I talked about the experience of using it on the Tube.

It's definitely slower than Oyster and contactless if you don't pre-authorise it on the phone first. If you pre-authorise, which is now easy to do with the phone locked (double press the home button from the lock screen to access Apple Pay), it's instant at the gate. I think once you pre-authorise, you have a minute to complete the transaction.

Yep pre-authorising is the way to go. Still milliseconds slower then with a card but it's fast enough for me and much more convenient.

paulbrock · 18-09-2015, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayburn

Yep pre-authorising is the way to go. Still milliseconds slower then with a card but it's fast enough for me and much more convenient.

shhh... some people get upset if you point out anything about Apple pay that isn't quite as good as an alternative

anyonefortennis · 18-09-2015, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulbrock

shhh... some people get upset if you point out anything about Apple pay that isn't quite as good as an alternative

Nobody gets upset about things which are true. But things that are just made up by people who don't even have an iPhone on the other hand.........

alanwarwic · 18-09-2015, 16:29

We all get things wrong. My stalker needs near 100% of everything I say to be wrong. It is the same with only 1, maybe 2 others.

I'm 100% interested in the facts, I'd hope you grant that of me. Theres often two rights to things.
Personally I fail to see how Oyster cannot be both the fastest and most reliable. I heard the time saving with Contactless is 10 seconds average. Apple Pay really cant be far at all off that.

jonmorris · 18-09-2015, 16:49

As I said, until you can get the same discounts on other cards, Oyster is the only choice.

Mind you, when we get the new Oyster system, weekly capping and other clever stuff will be possible on Oyster too.

kidspud · 18-09-2015, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

We all get things wrong. My stalker needs near 100% of everything I say to be wrong. It is the same with only 1, maybe 2 others.

I'm 100% interested in the facts, I'd hope you grant that of me. Theres often two rights to things.
Personally I fail to see how Oyster cannot be both the fastest and most reliable. I heard the time saving with Contactless is 10 seconds average. Apple Pay really cant be far at all off that.

You didn't state facts, you referenced an opinion piece from the guardian.

If you wanted the facts about what tfl actually said, you could have just linked to it.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...ment/apple-pay

I wont bother asking if you've actually ever used an Oyster card but although it is very fast it is not 100% reliable by any means because authorisation does not occur until you reach the gate, and if you don't not have the funds you can fail to get through the gates. It happens often.

They also suffer from 'card clash'.

The fact is Oyster, Contactless and Mobile payment are very fast, efficient ways of paying for the service.

WelshBluebird · 18-09-2015, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

As I said, until you can get the same discounts on other cards, Oyster is the only choice.

Mind you, when we get the new Oyster system, weekly capping and other clever stuff will be possible on Oyster too.

Any idea when that is due because it seems to keep getting delayed!
But totally with you with the discount stuff, for the next 2 years when I am still eligible for the 16-25 railcard I shall stick to Oyster. And by that time Android Pay should be able to be used I'd imagine!

WelshBluebird · 18-09-2015, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

You didn't state facts, you referenced an opinion piece from the guardian.

If you wanted the facts about what tfl actually said, you could have just linked to it.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...ment/apple-pay

I want bother asking if you've actually ever used an Oyster card but although it is very fast it is not 100% reliable by any means because authorisation does not occur until you reach the gate, and if you don't not have the funds you can fail to get through the gates. It happens often.

They also suffer from 'card clash'.

The fact is Oyster, Contactless and Mobile payment are very fast, efficient ways of paying for the service.

It is a fact that Apple pay is slower than Oyster though. We are only talking a matter of milliseconds but it is slower (the same also applies to Contactless cards). It is simply because of the differences in how Oyster works.

kidspud · 18-09-2015, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by WelshBluebird

It is a fact that Apple pay is slower than Oyster though. We are only talking a matter of milliseconds but it is slower (the same also applies to Contactless cards). It is simply because of the differences in how Oyster works.

Agreed, and I stated that several posts ago.

jonmorris · 18-09-2015, 17:35

And as I said, when Oyster is upgraded then they'll all be pretty much the same speed.

By then we'll have Samsung and Google Pay added to the list.

anyonefortennis · 18-09-2015, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Agreed, and I stated that several posts ago.

But we need to know the exact time different goddammit.

alanwarwic · 18-09-2015, 17:49

How about understanding how it works rather than being a user?
I can use my electric toaster but it does not make me an electrical engineer.

There is no pre-authorisation. It is tokenisation, authoriation taking place once the token is accepted. What happens when you activate Apple Pay is Apple requests a token from the bank, that token gets stored in the NFC card.
Touching the card reader, that token gets sent by the card reader, alongside the standard crypto, the bank authorises it, the card reader confirms this with the NFC, then confirming to the bank that the transaction is complete.

Its very similar to a standard NFC really but with no ID available to the bank, something they wanted for their own security, I think claiming they have no way of contesting Apple chargebacks.

Any minor errors, maybe a likely software engineer more in the current, of integrity, like Roush or Psionic can come back more correct

IslandNiles · 18-09-2015, 20:12

^^^

By 'pre-authorisation', people are referring to the Touch ID process, ie the process of authenticating by using your fingerprint. The point here is that if you approach the gates and present your locked phone, you then have to spend around four seconds whilst the screen appears and you use Touch ID. In a shop that's no time at all, but on the Tube with many people waiting behind you, it feels like an eternity. If you 'pre-authorise', by either opening Wallet or double pressing the home button from the lock screen to bring up Apple Pay, then using Touch ID, you get a notice on the screen saying 'hold near reader to pay'. Then you have up to a minute to complete the transaction without having to use Touch ID again. This means that when you get to the gate, the process is the same as with a contactless card.

Hope this clarifies.

18-09-2015, 13:53	#501
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by d123 Supposed to be "coming soon", at least for Tesco (outside London, London is already supposed to have it). I noticed that Morrisons now has contactless in some of their supermarkets. I remember seeing ones in a Tesco in London over a year ago so there coming soon isn't exactly fast lol. But yeah I've noticed them in morrisons just don't go there very often.

18-09-2015, 13:56	#502
Grayburn Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 225	Quote: Originally Posted by d123 Supposed to be "coming soon", at least for Tesco (outside London, London is already supposed to have it). I noticed that Morrisons now has contactless in some of their supermarkets. I live in Essex and Tesco, Asda & Morrisons all have contactless terminals. But i probably am in the closest part of Essex to London.

18-09-2015, 13:58	#503
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Heard that Walmart in America are refusing support Apple Pay because of the Credit/Debit Card fees which is crazy. All down to profits and money pinching.

18-09-2015, 14:00	#504
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace Heard that Walmart in America are refusing support Apple Pay because of the Credit/Debit Card fees which is crazy. All down to profits and money pinching. Asda is part of Walmart so that probably means Asda won't get it either.

18-09-2015, 14:03	#505
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Deleted

18-09-2015, 14:08	#506
Grayburn Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 225	Thought i'd give my views on Apple Pay since Halifax got their finger out and sorted it. I work in London and have been using it for a week. I use it to and from work on the Oyster gates at the stations i travel to & from. I've used it on the underground, in McDonald's,Boots & Tesco Metro, i've not had one problem with it, very handy indeed. It's a hell of a lot easier then getting my wallet out of my inside pocket, getting required card etc etc.

18-09-2015, 14:10	#507
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by Grayburn Thought i'd give my views on Apple Pay since Halifax got their finger out and sorted it. I work in London and have been using it for a week. I use it to and from work on the Oyster gates at the stations i travel to & from. I've used it on the underground, in McDonald's,Boots & Tesco Metro, i've not had one problem with it, very handy indeed. It's a hell of a lot easier then getting my wallet out of my inside pocket, getting required card etc etc. Can you confirm to other posters that it is no different to using an Oyster card time wise.

18-09-2015, 14:20	#508
IslandNiles Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 13,091	Quote: Originally Posted by anyonefortennis Can you confirm to other posters that it is no different to using an Oyster card time wise. Back on page 12, I talked about the experience of using it on the Tube. Quote: Originally Posted by IslandNiles I'm in London this weekend. I was a bit scared to use Apple Pay yesterday but tried it today. Basically, I would recommend opening Passbook and authenticating using the home button before you approach the gates. If you do this, the gates open pretty much instantly, the same as using an Oyster or contactless card. If you just hold the locked phone over the reader with your thumb on the home button, it takes maybe four seconds to complete the process. Obviously that's pretty quick, but it definitely doesn't feel it with a queue of people behind you expecting to get through without any delay at all! It's definitely slower than Oyster and contactless if you don't pre-authorise it on the phone first. If you pre-authorise, which is now easy to do with the phone locked (double press the home button from the lock screen to access Apple Pay), it's instant at the gate. I think once you pre-authorise, you have a minute to complete the transaction.

18-09-2015, 14:23	#509
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by IslandNiles Back on page 12, I talked about the experience of using it on the Tube. It's definitely slower than Oyster and contactless if you don't pre-authorise it on the phone first. If you pre-authorise, which is now easy to do with the phone locked (double press the home button from the lock screen to access Apple Pay), it's instant at the gate. I think once you pre-authorise, you have a minute to complete the transaction. Was that before or after iOS 9 with quicker access to Wallet now? Oh scratch that question. I've just seen you said it's quicker now with Apple Wallet.

18-09-2015, 14:25	#510
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by anyonefortennis Asda is part of Walmart so that probably means Asda won't get it either. Honestly it makes no sense to me though surely they already pay those fees on debit and credit cards anyway so why does it make a difference if they pay them via Apple Pay do Apple charge a small bit extra as well?

18-09-2015, 14:26	#511
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace Honestly it makes no sense to me though surely they already pay those fees on debit and credit cards anyway so why does it make a difference if they pay them via Apple Pay do Apple charge a small bit extra as well? Maybe Apple are charging more or they get a better deal or incentives with the banks.

18-09-2015, 14:29	#512
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by anyonefortennis Can you confirm to other posters that it is no different to using an Oyster card time wise. Oyster will be quicker because of the way those cards work compared to CPC and phone based systems, but Oyster itself is changing quite markedly next year to make it far more advanced and flexible. The difference is pretty insignificant though, but if people faff around with their phone (just as with a wallet) at the gatelines during the peaks then it's going to be annoying. With Oyster, most people generally have a separate Oyster wallet and have it good to go. CPCs and phones will change that, as you probably have to remove your card or prep your phone. Personally, I'm happy with Oyster (but that's also because it's the only way I can get 35% off travel in and around London when using PAYG!).

18-09-2015, 14:32	#513
Grayburn Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 225	Quote: Originally Posted by IslandNiles Back on page 12, I talked about the experience of using it on the Tube. It's definitely slower than Oyster and contactless if you don't pre-authorise it on the phone first. If you pre-authorise, which is now easy to do with the phone locked (double press the home button from the lock screen to access Apple Pay), it's instant at the gate. I think once you pre-authorise, you have a minute to complete the transaction. Yep pre-authorising is the way to go. Still milliseconds slower then with a card but it's fast enough for me and much more convenient.

18-09-2015, 15:51	#514
paulbrock Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wapping, London Posts: 16,222	Quote: Originally Posted by Grayburn Yep pre-authorising is the way to go. Still milliseconds slower then with a card but it's fast enough for me and much more convenient. shhh... some people get upset if you point out anything about Apple pay that isn't quite as good as an alternative

18-09-2015, 15:55	#515
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by paulbrock shhh... some people get upset if you point out anything about Apple pay that isn't quite as good as an alternative Nobody gets upset about things which are true. But things that are just made up by people who don't even have an iPhone on the other hand.........

18-09-2015, 16:29	#516
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	We all get things wrong. My stalker needs near 100% of everything I say to be wrong. It is the same with only 1, maybe 2 others. I'm 100% interested in the facts, I'd hope you grant that of me. Theres often two rights to things. Personally I fail to see how Oyster cannot be both the fastest and most reliable. I heard the time saving with Contactless is 10 seconds average. Apple Pay really cant be far at all off that.

18-09-2015, 16:49	#517
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	As I said, until you can get the same discounts on other cards, Oyster is the only choice. Mind you, when we get the new Oyster system, weekly capping and other clever stuff will be possible on Oyster too.

18-09-2015, 16:55	#518
kidspud Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 11,501	Quote: Originally Posted by alanwarwic We all get things wrong. My stalker needs near 100% of everything I say to be wrong. It is the same with only 1, maybe 2 others. I'm 100% interested in the facts, I'd hope you grant that of me. Theres often two rights to things. Personally I fail to see how Oyster cannot be both the fastest and most reliable. I heard the time saving with Contactless is 10 seconds average. Apple Pay really cant be far at all off that. You didn't state facts, you referenced an opinion piece from the guardian. If you wanted the facts about what tfl actually said, you could have just linked to it. https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...ment/apple-pay I wont bother asking if you've actually ever used an Oyster card but although it is very fast it is not 100% reliable by any means because authorisation does not occur until you reach the gate, and if you don't not have the funds you can fail to get through the gates. It happens often. They also suffer from 'card clash'. The fact is Oyster, Contactless and Mobile payment are very fast, efficient ways of paying for the service.

18-09-2015, 16:59	#519
WelshBluebird Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 720	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris As I said, until you can get the same discounts on other cards, Oyster is the only choice. Mind you, when we get the new Oyster system, weekly capping and other clever stuff will be possible on Oyster too. Any idea when that is due because it seems to keep getting delayed! But totally with you with the discount stuff, for the next 2 years when I am still eligible for the 16-25 railcard I shall stick to Oyster. And by that time Android Pay should be able to be used I'd imagine!

18-09-2015, 17:01	#520
WelshBluebird Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 720	Quote: Originally Posted by kidspud You didn't state facts, you referenced an opinion piece from the guardian. If you wanted the facts about what tfl actually said, you could have just linked to it. https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...ment/apple-pay I want bother asking if you've actually ever used an Oyster card but although it is very fast it is not 100% reliable by any means because authorisation does not occur until you reach the gate, and if you don't not have the funds you can fail to get through the gates. It happens often. They also suffer from 'card clash'. The fact is Oyster, Contactless and Mobile payment are very fast, efficient ways of paying for the service. It is a fact that Apple pay is slower than Oyster though. We are only talking a matter of milliseconds but it is slower (the same also applies to Contactless cards). It is simply because of the differences in how Oyster works.

18-09-2015, 17:04	#521
kidspud Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 11,501	Quote: Originally Posted by WelshBluebird It is a fact that Apple pay is slower than Oyster though. We are only talking a matter of milliseconds but it is slower (the same also applies to Contactless cards). It is simply because of the differences in how Oyster works. Agreed, and I stated that several posts ago.

DS Forums

Apple Pay

18-09-2015, 17:35	#522
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	And as I said, when Oyster is upgraded then they'll all be pretty much the same speed. By then we'll have Samsung and Google Pay added to the list.

18-09-2015, 17:37	#523
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by kidspud Agreed, and I stated that several posts ago. But we need to know the exact time different goddammit.

18-09-2015, 17:49	#524
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	How about understanding how it works rather than being a user? I can use my electric toaster but it does not make me an electrical engineer. There is no pre-authorisation. It is tokenisation, authoriation taking place once the token is accepted. What happens when you activate Apple Pay is Apple requests a token from the bank, that token gets stored in the NFC card. Touching the card reader, that token gets sent by the card reader, alongside the standard crypto, the bank authorises it, the card reader confirms this with the NFC, then confirming to the bank that the transaction is complete. Its very similar to a standard NFC really but with no ID available to the bank, something they wanted for their own security, I think claiming they have no way of contesting Apple chargebacks. Any minor errors, maybe a likely software engineer more in the current, of integrity, like Roush or Psionic can come back more correct

18-09-2015, 20:12	#525
IslandNiles Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 13,091	^^^ By 'pre-authorisation', people are referring to the Touch ID process, ie the process of authenticating by using your fingerprint. The point here is that if you approach the gates and present your locked phone, you then have to spend around four seconds whilst the screen appears and you use Touch ID. In a shop that's no time at all, but on the Tube with many people waiting behind you, it feels like an eternity. If you 'pre-authorise', by either opening Wallet or double pressing the home button from the lock screen to bring up Apple Pay, then using Touch ID, you get a notice on the screen saying 'hold near reader to pay'. Then you have up to a minute to complete the transaction without having to use Touch ID again. This means that when you get to the gate, the process is the same as with a contactless card. Hope this clarifies.