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Old 14-07-2015, 13:56
jb76
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So when you use the phone instead of your card will there be a time when it may ask for a pin or will this just not happen with Apple pay. I know when i go to the pub sometimes and use contactless after 3 or 4 times i have to use my pin.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:01
anyonefortennis
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So when you use the phone instead of your card will there be a time when it may ask for a pin or will this just not happen with Apple pay. I know when i go to the pub sometimes and use contactless after 3 or 4 times i have to use my pin.
It's more secure than contactless cause you need your fingerprint so probably not.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:06
d123
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banks will prompt you to enter your PIN when you use contactless more than 2-3 times in the same day, it's an added layer of security to check your card hasn't been lost/stolen and being used fraudulently.
It never has, in at least a year, and I've used it more than 3 times in a day numerous times.

I presume it's totally random and account dependent, and isn't as structured as you are trying to make out.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:10
Dinger
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It never has, in at least a year, and I've used it more than 3 times in a day numerous times.

I presume it's totally random and account dependent, and isn't as structured as you are trying to make out.
Each bank has its own way of doing it, as other replies here indicate. I may not have been correct when I said 2-3 times in a day, but as each bank is different I mentioned it to give an idea of when it is likely to happen.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:12
paulbrock
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Q - if Apple Pay presents a different token every time its used, that can't be traced back to the actual card used, how does TfL know its the same device used to touch in and touch out on the Underground?
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:14
IslandNiles
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Q - if Apple Pay presents a different token every time its used, that can't be traced back to the actual card used, how does TfL know its the same device used to touch in and touch out on the Underground?
I wondered about that when it was first announced, and for that reason I was a bit surprised when TfL/London Underground was listed as a launch partner. They must have resolved that particular issue, though I don't know how.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:14
DevonBloke
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I'm also with Lloyds, but your MBNA card will work. I added (then used) my card this morning at McDonalds. It confused the person behind the counter
Thanks. I am now using Apple Pay!

How come they (MBNA) said not yet then?
Got some 0% blurb through the other day and it said later in the year.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:18
preecey
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Wasn't too convinced when I tried using it in Subway today. Took three attempts for it to recognise my thumbprint before approving the transaction - process took around ten seconds in total. I suppose once I master my thumb positioning the process will be a lot smoother.

As a regular to that particular Subway and the fact that the staff know that I'm very tech-savvy, I had to laugh when the girl who served me say, "You're always the first aren't you?", presumably referencing the fact that I was the first person in that store to give it a go.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:18
Dinger
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Q - if Apple Pay presents a different token every time its used, that can't be traced back to the actual card used, how does TfL know its the same device used to touch in and touch out on the Underground?
Every time you hand over your credit or debit card to pay, your card number and identity are visible. With Apple Pay, instead of using your actual credit and debit card numbers when you add your card, a unique Device Account Number is assigned, encrypted and securely stored in the Secure Element, a dedicated chip in iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch. These numbers are never stored on Apple servers. And when you make a purchase, the Device Account Number, along with a transaction-specific dynamic security code, is used to process your payment. So your actual credit or debit card numbers are never shared by Apple with merchants or transmitted with payment
More info here.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:22
BKM
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I wondered about that when it was first announced, and for that reason I was a bit surprised when TfL/London Underground was listed as a launch partner. They must have resolved that particular issue, though I don't know how.
The BBC say that the unique "device account number" is always transmitted as part of the transaction

a 16-digit token - called a Device Account Number - unique to each piece of kit
an encryption key, which creates one-use "signatures" called cryptograms. A fresh one is generated for every transaction after a fingerprint is provided
The token and encryption key are installed into a dedicated chip on the devices, which their operating systems cannot access.
To authorise an in-store sale, the device's token and an associated cryptogram are transmitted via the contactless terminal to the payment provider, who checks they belong together.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:25
Dinger
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Thanks. I am now using Apple Pay!

How come they (MBNA) said not yet then?
Got some 0% blurb through the other day and it said later in the year.
You're welcome.

I saw a message a few months ago on the homepage saying it was coming soon, logged on to check my statement a few days ago and the homepage said coming in July so assumed that it would be with the other banks today, I don't think they were supposed to be a launch partner but the U.S arm of the business was, so guess adding it here was easier than planned. I saw a tweet from them saying it had launched this morning so added my card without a problem.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:27
Roush
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Q - if Apple Pay presents a different token every time its used, that can't be traced back to the actual card used, how does TfL know its the same device used to touch in and touch out on the Underground?
As well as the single-use payment tokens the Apple Pay system generates a unique pairing between the device and the card. TfL will be using that pairing for journey calculations and cost capping.

That's why they say to make sure you use the same device for all journeys, whereas if you used a watch part of the time and the phone the rest of the time they won't be able to build a complete picture of your journeys and apply costs & capping correctly.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...y?cid=applepay

If you use Apple Pay on more than one device, for instance when the same payment card is linked to both an iPhone and an Apple Watch, make sure to choose one device and use it every time you travel, so you:

Avoid incomplete journeys
Benefit from daily and weekly capping


edit: seems I was beaten to it...
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:34
tdenson
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Given that I have not been able to register any of my cards with Apple Pay and yet it is meant to work with any contactless terminals, can someone please tell me in words of one syllable what I need to do to use my Apple Watch at McDonalds.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:36
anyonefortennis
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Given that I have not been able to register any of my cards with Apple Pay and yet it is meant to work with any contactless terminals, can someone please tell me in words of one syllable what I need to do to use my Apple Watch at McDonalds.
You need to register a card on the Apple Watch first. Why can't you register a card? Do you use a card to make purchases in the App Store or iTunes? You can use that one unless it's one of the banks not participating yet until the end of July.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:36
Dinger
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Given that I have not been able to register any of my cards with Apple Pay and yet it is meant to work with any contactless terminals, can someone please tell me in words of one syllable what I need to do to use my Apple Watch at McDonalds.
Which bank/card provider are you using?

Edit: Here is what you need.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:43
Roush
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I added my card this morning which was quick and simple. I then had to verify it with the bank and was on hold with them for 45 minutes before anyone answered. I'm about to try it out for the first time.
I added two of my Santander cards this morning, and because I already have my mobile number setup as an authorisation device with Santander I was able to verify my cards via a text message code.

The whole process took less than a minute for each card.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:43
noise747
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i really hope that people do not start having problems with this and hold us up at the checkout. Just use flipping cash.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:45
anyonefortennis
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I added two of my Santander cards this morning, and because I already have my mobile number setup as an authorisation device with Santander I was able to verify my cards via a text message code.

The whole process took less than a minute for each card.
It's handy the way you can use your camera to scan a new card without having to input the card information manually. Did you do it that way?
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:46
anyonefortennis
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i really hope that people do not start having problems with this and hold us up at the checkout. Just use flipping cash.
Cash is for peasants.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:49
paulbrock
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As well as the single-use payment tokens the Apple Pay system generates a unique pairing between the device and the card. TfL will be using that pairing for journey calculations and cost capping.
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:53
anyonefortennis
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I wonder if you can use the same phone or watch to allow 2 people to make a journey on TFL?
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Old 14-07-2015, 14:54
paulbrock
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i really hope that people do not start having problems with this and hold us up at the checkout. Just use flipping cash.
It should be faster than cash (though perhaps not faster than existing contactless cards). I will be tutting loudly with everyone else if I'm held up on the tube by someone dicking around with a fingerprint sensor though!
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Old 14-07-2015, 15:01
tdenson
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You need to register a card on the Apple Watch first. Why can't you register a card? Do you use a card to make purchases in the App Store or iTunes? You can use that one unless it's one of the banks not participating yet until the end of July.
See my post #49
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Old 14-07-2015, 15:03
tdenson
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Which bank/card provider are you using?

Edit: Here is what you need.
As I said in my post #49, Barclaycard, Lloyds and Nattiest all failed. Yet I can use my Barclaycard contactless.
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Old 14-07-2015, 15:04
anyonefortennis
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You can definitely register with a Natwest card cause mine registered this morning. You must be doing something wrong.
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