Madonna is a great guest on talk shows- loved her on Jimmy Fallon where she joked that her kids think she is uncool as a Mum and basic!
Madonna and her Artistic Downfall?
5 of 5
Originally Posted by Soupietwist:
“Pre internet age the biggest music magazines in 92' gave it good reviews.
Rolling Stone gave it 4/5.
NME 7/10
Q 3/5
Even Robert Christgau gave it a 'A' rating.”
“Pre internet age the biggest music magazines in 92' gave it good reviews.
Rolling Stone gave it 4/5.
NME 7/10
Q 3/5
Even Robert Christgau gave it a 'A' rating.”
Those numerical GOOD reviews would actually average out to a score of 70 / 100. Not even taking into account the negative reviews for Erotica, that score is basically the same as Metacritic's score for Rebel Heart.
Originally Posted by TomAce:
“Those numerical GOOD reviews would actually average out to a score of 70 / 100. Not even taking into account the negative reviews for Erotica, that score is basically the same as Metacritic's score for Rebel Heart.”
“Those numerical GOOD reviews would actually average out to a score of 70 / 100. Not even taking into account the negative reviews for Erotica, that score is basically the same as Metacritic's score for Rebel Heart.”
Well I didn't cherry pick those reviews, I just picked 4 important music publications from that time period. And if you include all 4 of those reviews it averages out at 75 - which is a solid score.
Maybe you can post some of these negative reviews from respected music publications of the time for balance then?
Originally Posted by Soupietwist:
“Well I didn't cherry pick those reviews, I just picked 4 important music publications from that time period. And if you include all 4 of those reviews it averages out at 75 - which is a solid score.
Maybe you can post some of these negative reviews from respected music publications of the time for balance then?”
“Well I didn't cherry pick those reviews, I just picked 4 important music publications from that time period. And if you include all 4 of those reviews it averages out at 75 - which is a solid score.
Maybe you can post some of these negative reviews from respected music publications of the time for balance then?”
I'm just glad to see that there are some posters here who actually take critical reviews seriously rather than suggest that quality in music is a completely subjective idea.
It's not completely subjective, but sometimes critics have agendas, and they don't favor the artists they review. Tori Amos's most loved album by her fans wasn't received well by her record company or critics.
I think there's an objective and a subjective side of musical quality.
There's an objective criteria as to more technical things like the quality of vocals, mixing, production, instrument playing, even whether the lyrics are deep and meaningful or shallow.
But there are also subjective things, just because some people like certain genres more than others or some people like timeless more traditional styles of music and others like more current modern styles.
There's an objective criteria as to more technical things like the quality of vocals, mixing, production, instrument playing, even whether the lyrics are deep and meaningful or shallow.
But there are also subjective things, just because some people like certain genres more than others or some people like timeless more traditional styles of music and others like more current modern styles.
Originally Posted by Quixotic:
“Commercial success doesn’t necessarily equal critical acclaim and artistic value, look at The Spice Girls. Contrary to popular belief Madonna, Like a Virgin and True Blue aren’t universally acclaimed albums, their reviews were only ever good. Like a Prayer was Madonna’s first album to receive universal praise, and it was her last until Ray of light in the late-1990s. She hasn’t released another universally acclaimed album since 1998. That's a long time.
Erotica and Bedtime Stories received mixed reviews in the early 1990s and are more or less forgotten today by the general public. Music and Confessions received good reviews, but American Life, MDNA and Hard Candy received very mixed reviews. So three out of five studio albums released in 12 years had a lukewarm response. If you look at The Beatles, most of their studio albums are rated five stars. Madonna has never had that level of acclaim. She’s had two universally acclaimed albums in 32 years. Some people might argue that Madonna has been active a lot longer than The Beatles, but Madonna has released 13 studio albums in 32 years whereas The Beatles released more than that in just seven years.
Rebel Heart is Madonna’s first album in a decade to receive decent reviews, but it's far from being critically acclaimed. She’s spent the last ten years of her career being artistically redundant. It’s amazing that someone approaching 60 is releasing a song called Bitch I’m Madonna but released a song like Frozen when she was 40. She's spent the majority of the last 17 years regressing rather than progressing. Her biggest problem is she tries to sell her music to teenagers and young adults who, for the most part, don't care about her. Hard Candy and MDNA turned off a lot of long-time fans and hardly enticed old fans to come back. Is anyone surprised that her upcoming tour is far from sold out?
The fact is she's no longer important to pop music. There are a lot of artists who are releasing better and more compelling pop music than her. Her diminishing success isn't just down to her age. She's spent far too long going through the motions. If it's not camp dance music, it's light-weight urban music with yet another guest rapper or younger pop star. It’s incredible that it takes between three and eight people to write the rubbish that Madonna has been peddling for the last ten years. If she's the genius her fans claim she is, then perhaps she could write a song by herself on her next album. After all, it's been 30 years since she last did it. I would love a journalist to ask her about her lack of sole writer credits. She sits there in interviews with her nose in the air while talking in that stupid, pretentious accent about how she creates her music. Anyone would think she writes, composes and produces it all herself like Kate Bush does. Madonna's talent is jumping on the latest bandwagon and teaming up with popular producers and writers to try and give her a much-needed hit single.”
“Commercial success doesn’t necessarily equal critical acclaim and artistic value, look at The Spice Girls. Contrary to popular belief Madonna, Like a Virgin and True Blue aren’t universally acclaimed albums, their reviews were only ever good. Like a Prayer was Madonna’s first album to receive universal praise, and it was her last until Ray of light in the late-1990s. She hasn’t released another universally acclaimed album since 1998. That's a long time.
Erotica and Bedtime Stories received mixed reviews in the early 1990s and are more or less forgotten today by the general public. Music and Confessions received good reviews, but American Life, MDNA and Hard Candy received very mixed reviews. So three out of five studio albums released in 12 years had a lukewarm response. If you look at The Beatles, most of their studio albums are rated five stars. Madonna has never had that level of acclaim. She’s had two universally acclaimed albums in 32 years. Some people might argue that Madonna has been active a lot longer than The Beatles, but Madonna has released 13 studio albums in 32 years whereas The Beatles released more than that in just seven years.
Rebel Heart is Madonna’s first album in a decade to receive decent reviews, but it's far from being critically acclaimed. She’s spent the last ten years of her career being artistically redundant. It’s amazing that someone approaching 60 is releasing a song called Bitch I’m Madonna but released a song like Frozen when she was 40. She's spent the majority of the last 17 years regressing rather than progressing. Her biggest problem is she tries to sell her music to teenagers and young adults who, for the most part, don't care about her. Hard Candy and MDNA turned off a lot of long-time fans and hardly enticed old fans to come back. Is anyone surprised that her upcoming tour is far from sold out?
The fact is she's no longer important to pop music. There are a lot of artists who are releasing better and more compelling pop music than her. Her diminishing success isn't just down to her age. She's spent far too long going through the motions. If it's not camp dance music, it's light-weight urban music with yet another guest rapper or younger pop star. It’s incredible that it takes between three and eight people to write the rubbish that Madonna has been peddling for the last ten years. If she's the genius her fans claim she is, then perhaps she could write a song by herself on her next album. After all, it's been 30 years since she last did it. I would love a journalist to ask her about her lack of sole writer credits. She sits there in interviews with her nose in the air while talking in that stupid, pretentious accent about how she creates her music. Anyone would think she writes, composes and produces it all herself like Kate Bush does. Madonna's talent is jumping on the latest bandwagon and teaming up with popular producers and writers to try and give her a much-needed hit single.”
Post of the entire thread!
Some people are claiming that the notion of Madonna chasing trends and desperately trying to be revelant is inaccurate. Sorry but if shooting a video with an all-star cast and adding rappers and relevant pop stars to tracks doesn't reek of desperation to stay relevant and cool then I don't know what does.
Madonna looks and moves great for a 56 year old, and some bitter detractors can't handle it. Boo hoo for them.
Originally Posted by Grabid Rannies:
“Madonna looks and moves great for a 56 year old, and some bitter detractors can't handle it. Boo hoo for them.”
“Madonna looks and moves great for a 56 year old, and some bitter detractors can't handle it. Boo hoo for them.”
Isn't that a bit of a dismissive comment? So people who don't rave about Madonna and fall over themselves at how "amazing" she is are simply just bitter detractors? That's the problem with Madonna fans in general - they seem to put her on some kind of God-like pedestal and are unable to find any fault in her as an artist or as a pop star. Nobody can take away the fact that she's carved out a hugely successful music career with astonishing longevity but it is clear she has lost (maybe temporarily, maybe permanently) her mojo over the past decade. As someone else pointed out, it's odd that a song like 'Frozen' was released 17 years before 'Bitch I'm Madonna'. It's a shame that for over twenty years she had been able to maintain a hugely successful music career but in the last 10 years she has alienated a lot of long-time fans.
Originally Posted by Stube:
“Isn't that a bit of a dismissive comment? So people who don't rave about Madonna and fall over themselves at how "amazing" she is are simply just bitter detractors? That's the problem with Madonna fans in general - they seem to put her on some kind of God-like pedestal and are unable to find any fault in her as an artist or as a pop star. Nobody can take away the fact that she's carved out a hugely successful music career with astonishing longevity but it is clear she has lost (maybe temporarily, maybe permanently) her mojo over the past decade. As someone else pointed out, it's odd that a song like 'Frozen' was released 17 years before 'Bitch I'm Madonna'. It's a shame that for over twenty years she had been able to maintain a hugely successful music career but in the last 10 years she has alienated a lot of long-time fans.”
“Isn't that a bit of a dismissive comment? So people who don't rave about Madonna and fall over themselves at how "amazing" she is are simply just bitter detractors? That's the problem with Madonna fans in general - they seem to put her on some kind of God-like pedestal and are unable to find any fault in her as an artist or as a pop star. Nobody can take away the fact that she's carved out a hugely successful music career with astonishing longevity but it is clear she has lost (maybe temporarily, maybe permanently) her mojo over the past decade. As someone else pointed out, it's odd that a song like 'Frozen' was released 17 years before 'Bitch I'm Madonna'. It's a shame that for over twenty years she had been able to maintain a hugely successful music career but in the last 10 years she has alienated a lot of long-time fans.”
It's not that Madonna is perfect and can do no wrong, In fact, I would argue her fans are more critical of her than other fans are of their favorite artist. It's more that Madonna more than other superstar is always being attacked for her lack of talent or general creative choices. Whereas with other artists, if people don't like what they do they just ignore them, but with Madonna her critics seem to go on long tirades against her and that naturally makes her fans defensive. I've never understand the intensive negativity Madonna engenders in some people.
I don't see why it's odd that she can do both Bitch I'm Madonna and Frozen. If you've followed her closely you can see that she has always done some fun lighthearted songs and some more serious ballads. Rebel Heart has quite a few more serious mature ballads on it. But for some reason, people think because you are older you can't do fun pop music or dance things, but you must make nothing but serious slower ballads.
I love Frozen but to me it would be boring if she only did those type of serious songs. Madonna is a multi dimensional person with different sides, but people have always had a issue with that for some reason and they want her to be just one thing.
Originally Posted by Stube:
“Post of the entire thread!
Some people are claiming that the notion of Madonna chasing trends and desperately trying to be revelant is inaccurate. Sorry but if shooting a video with an all-star cast and adding rappers and relevant pop stars to tracks doesn't reek of desperation to stay relevant and cool then I don't know what does.”
“Post of the entire thread!
Some people are claiming that the notion of Madonna chasing trends and desperately trying to be revelant is inaccurate. Sorry but if shooting a video with an all-star cast and adding rappers and relevant pop stars to tracks doesn't reek of desperation to stay relevant and cool then I don't know what does.”
But this misunderstands the kind of artist Madonna has always been. She has always been inspired by contemporary music trends and current pop artists. All of her records except I'm Breathless are in the genre of contemporary music. It's not like she is Adele doing traditional older music, and then all of a sudden out of the blue she started doing modern "trendy" music. She has always been inspired by what people consider current music.
But people have this odd idea because you are older it's wrong to like contemporary forms of music and if you do you are getting down with the kids or desparate. I think it's an admirable quality to remain vibrant by being interested in current things and not to be stuck in past sounds. Madonna has always expressed in hip hop and rappers. She hung up with 2pac and there's a rap track on Erotica. So it's something she has always done, hardly a new thing to keep herself "relevant"
Originally Posted by Soupietwist:
“Well I didn't cherry pick those reviews, I just picked 4 important music publications from that time period. And if you include all 4 of those reviews it averages out at 75 - which is a solid score.
Maybe you can post some of these negative reviews from respected music publications of the time for balance then?”
“Well I didn't cherry pick those reviews, I just picked 4 important music publications from that time period. And if you include all 4 of those reviews it averages out at 75 - which is a solid score.
Maybe you can post some of these negative reviews from respected music publications of the time for balance then?”
I don't really have time, and you have reinforced my point anyway. 68 score Vs. 75 isn't that much of a drastic difference. If it was 90 Vs. 60 then yes, but it's not, so I don't see a significant 'artistic downfall' comparing critical reception of albums old and new.
5 of 5
