[Orbitalzone]

I fancy having a Dolby surround sound receiver/amp to connect to my TV, Sky HD, PC and Blu Ray player and have some small(ish) discrete speakers. I'd like a reasonable quality but all the surround sound receivers I see appear to be massive in height and depth and I want a slim box to put under the TV, same sort of size as a blu ray player if possible.

I'd prefer to not have it built into a blu ray player (they likely have shorter life spans vs a dedicated amp) so any ideas on something a bit more discrete?

Budget maybe £200-£300 but might consider more if the amp looks and sounds the part.

[chrisjr]

One of these perhaps?

http://www.richersounds.com/product/...04/mara-nr1504

or

http://www.richersounds.com/product/...ion-vsx310-blk

[charger21]

Ive got that Pioneer. Very pleased with the sound quality of it.

Something to note is when i hooked up my Sky HD and Bluray via HDMI i could only get sound through the TV speakers from 1 or other, not both. Obviously made more sense to have sky box sound available through the TV speakers aswell as the surround sound as the surround sound tends to be used when we watch Blurays so not as important to have the sound through TV. Having said that it appears to be a problem with Sky boxes rather than the Pioneer so dont let it it put you off buying, Just be aware of the problem when setting it up.

[Orbitalzone]

Thanks, I somehow didn't find those when searching for the last few weeks! that's more the size I was after, would be nice if manufacturers didn't keep making most AV receivers bigger and more jam packed with (probably) many unused features. It seems the one AV item that doesn't get the slim and style treatment.

[charger21]

Also to add that the ventilation vents are on top so keep that in mind for where you are planning on placing it and for any other equipment youre planning on putting on top. I do have my BluRay player on top of it as Im limited for space but i did get spacers to raise the height of the player to give sufficent ventilation

[Orbitalzone]

So is there any reason why I couldn't just take an optical out from my TV and use the optical in on the av amp so that whatever sound is coming out of the TV is fed into the amp?

I can't see why I'd need to route my SkyHD, Blu ray and PC all into the amp via HDMI when all I need is an audio feed into it?

I might be missing something obvious of course....

[chrisjr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

So is there any reason why I couldn't just take an optical out from my TV and use the optical in on the av amp so that whatever sound is coming out of the TV is fed into the amp?

I can't see why I'd need to route my SkyHD, Blu ray and PC all into the amp via HDMI when all I need is an audio feed into it?

I might be missing something obvious of course....

The most obvious one is that connecting all the peripheral devices to the amp guarantees that you will get surround sound when whatever you are watching has a surround audio track.

Going via the TV may only give you stereo. Or could even give you nothing. Depending on the TV and how it handles passthrough of audio from HDMI to optical.

Also the optical connection can't handle some surround sound formats. It will do basic Dolby Digital 5.1 but not any of the HD formats or a 7.1 format should you feel the need for even more speakers.

If you are bothering to invest in a decent bit of AV kit why not use it to it's best?

[Orbitalzone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

The most obvious one is that connecting all the peripheral devices to the amp guarantees that you will get surround sound when whatever you are watching has a surround audio track.

Going via the TV may only give you stereo. Or could even give you nothing. Depending on the TV and how it handles passthrough of audio from HDMI to optical.

Also the optical connection can't handle some surround sound formats. It will do basic Dolby Digital 5.1 but not any of the HD formats or a 7.1 format should you feel the need for even more speakers.

If you are bothering to invest in a decent bit of AV kit why not use it to it's best?

Thanks, that's a useful bit of info, I was just thinking that if the optical did it all then I could save rewiring everything but I guess I'll have to rewire the lot with all those extra speaker cables anyway. Thanks for all responses

[Deacon1972]

What about no receiver at all?

The Onkyo HTX22HTX is a 2.1 system with the option to turn it into a 5.1 system with optional center and surrounds. Everthing is connected and housed in the sub - If using discrete main speakers you are going to require a sub.

A cracking system, it has good conectivity, HD audio decoding (bluray: True HD and DTS MA) and has had many positive reviews.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/home-theatre/dp/B003H9NHXI

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B003...N6H28QDK7XJTD8

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...ts5HnlGXLx7YeQ

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...40-8XU5DD62Qzw


Connections would be something like......

Onkyo HDMI out to TV HDMI IN

Sky HD HDMI out to Onkyo HDMI in
PC HDMI out to Onkyo HDMI in
Bluray HDMI out to Onkyo HDMI in

That would give you DD5,1 from Sky when available.
DD5.1, DTS and HD audio from bluray and PC (depending on soundcard) when available

[charger21]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

So is there any reason why I couldn't just take an optical out from my TV and use the optical in on the av amp so that whatever sound is coming out of the TV is fed into the amp?

I can't see why I'd need to route my SkyHD, Blu ray and PC all into the amp via HDMI when all I need is an audio feed into it?

I might be missing something obvious of course....

No theres not. Im maybe not the best guy to explain this as I dont have the technical vocabulary but what Ive had to do is hook the bluray player up via HDMI and the Sky Box via HDMI for picture and Optical for sound. As I say its no big deal, just be aware of it when you hook it all up. Id just assumed Id hook the sky box and the bluray up via HDMI and Id be good to go but the sky hd box settings dont make that possile from what I can gather

[Orbitalzone]

Deacon1972 - thanks, that looks like a possible alternative for me and will definitely look into that.

Charger21 - thanks for the info, all good to know.

I've been out the game for a good few years and it's amazing how out of touch you get with these things!

[anthony david]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

So is there any reason why I couldn't just take an optical out from my TV and use the optical in on the av amp so that whatever sound is coming out of the TV is fed into the amp?

I can't see why I'd need to route my SkyHD, Blu ray and PC all into the amp via HDMI when all I need is an audio feed into it?

I might be missing something obvious of course....

I do that on my Sony HX and it works very well, but some Samsung and possibly others do not pass on 5.1 sound. There was quite a bit about it on these forums recently.

[Orbitalzone]

MY TV is a Sony W4000 LCD from 2008 so pretty old but a sterling performer nevertheless. Thanks for the info on this.

[chrisjr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charger21

No theres not. Im maybe not the best guy to explain this as I dont have the technical vocabulary but what Ive had to do is hook the bluray player up via HDMI and the Sky Box via HDMI for picture and Optical for sound. As I say its no big deal, just be aware of it when you hook it all up. Id just assumed Id hook the sky box and the bluray up via HDMI and Id be good to go but the sky hd box settings dont make that possile from what I can gather

That is a pretty odd way of connecting everything.

You should be able to connect everything via HDMI only to the AV amp. No need for the optical connections. Some earlier versions of the Sky box did only do Dolby Digital surround over optical but as far as I am aware that was sorted some time ago. I am not aware of any Blu-Ray player that does not do surround over HDMI.

As I posted above using optical does also limit you as to the formats you can use while HDMI allows just about any format available provided the devices at each end of the cable can handle them.

[charger21]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

That is a pretty odd way of connecting everything.

You should be able to connect everything via HDMI only to the AV amp. No need for the optical connections. Some earlier versions of the Sky box did only do Dolby Digital surround over optical but as far as I am aware that was sorted some time ago. I am not aware of any Blu-Ray player that does not do surround over HDMI.

As I posted above using optical does also limit you as to the formats you can use while HDMI allows just about any format available provided the devices at each end of the cable can handle them.

When i set the digital audio output - HDMI on my sky box to Dolby I dont get any sound through my TV speakers, only when its set to Normal do I get sound through the TV speakers. So to get sound from sky through the TV and the surround sound i had to use an optical cable with the DAO - optical set to Dolby

[Deacon1972]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charger21

When i set the digital audio output - HDMI on my sky box to Dolby I dont get any sound through my TV speakers, only when its set to Normal do I get sound through the TV speakers. So to get sound from sky through the TV and the surround sound i had to use an optical cable with the DAO - optical set to Dolby

Looks like it's the tv not being able to accept DD5.1 only stereo, not a fault of the Sky box which you initially thought.

Pretty sure the Pioneer has audio passthrough in standby mode, this means you can remove the optical, still keep HDMI and have the audio from Sky through the tv when you don't want to use the sound system.

[charger21]

Ahhhh, seems it is the TV right enough. I set it up a couple of years ago and havent touched it since. Was aware at the time there was an issue with the sky boxes so have wrongly assumed since that it was that.

The optical cable gets used also for if Im watching anything through USB

[Orbitalzone]

Just a quick update, I followed Deacon1972's advice and looked into the Onkyo HTX22HTX with the 5.1 speaker pack and now have one. I works well in my small sitting room, quite a few options given the reasonably compact size of the subwoofer/processor/amp.

I think the only one issue I found was as experienced by Charger21, no sound on the TV speakers if Dolby Digital for SkyHD was set on the SkyHD hdmi....like I say, lots of options and configurations to try with this kit.

I'm amazed how many options there seems to be getting it all to work in a wife proof way! well it all goes in using HDMI as Chrisjr suggested and works for the most part well. The Onkyo (usually) switches itself on when the TV and SkyHD are powered up but sometimes stays muted and requires the remote volume pressing to bring it fully up, I like that the Sony TV, Sony Blu ray player can all be controlled via the Onkyo remote via HDMI (basic features) and vice versa with the Sony remotes being able to control the Onkyo volume.

Most importantly, it sounds pretty good, not too thumping neighbour annoying bass from the sub.

So thanks for all the help and advice given above, much appreciated.

[boksbox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

Thanks, I somehow didn't find those when searching for the last few weeks! that's more the size I was after, would be nice if manufacturers didn't keep making most AV receivers bigger and more jam packed with (probably) many unused features. It seems the one AV item that doesn't get the slim and style treatment.

Depends on what you want, AV receivers are big because of their power supplies, there's no way round that if you want the power and sound quality.

[Orbitalzone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boksbox

Depends on what you want, AV receivers are big because of their power supplies, there's no way round that if you want the power and sound quality.

True but I'd have thought there's a market for a more discrete AV receiver and not everyone really needs 1000watts of power surely and impressive caps and heatsinks

If they can squeeze it into a blu ray player as they do with the all in one kits then they could make a slimmer AV receiver.

[Chris Frost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

True but I'd have thought there's a market for a more discrete AV receiver and not everyone really needs 1000watts of power surely and impressive caps and heatsinks

If they can squeeze it into a blu ray player as they do with the all in one kits then they could make a slimmer AV receiver.

You're not quite comparing apples with apples though.

The "magic" 1000 Watts from one of those slim-line Blu-ray player-based all-in-one kits is a bit of a fantasy figure conjured from some rather dazzling liberties with how things are measured and then the extrapolations that follow. If car 0-60 times were measured in a similar way then each vehicle would be stripped to a bare chassis and then fired from a canon. It's hardly a realistic test.

But just to play Devil's advocate for a moment, let's presume that 1000W total is genuine (it isn't, but let's play the game), so we divide that between the speakers. Ordinarily the sub would take the lion's share, but just for argument lets say it divides roughly equally to 160W per speaker (160W/ch). Your typical all-in-one kit uses speakers rated at around 3 Ohms and the amp is designed to drive that impedance (Ohms) load. So we have 160W/ch in to 3 Ohm load.

Now lets compare the speaker load for an AV receiver - even a slimline one. The speaker rating is usually 6-8 Ohms impedance, so the amp will be designed for a similar range. What happens to the all-in-one if we transplant those 6 Ohm speakers and ask it to drive them instead..........

160W/channel from a 3 Ohm rated amp in to a 6 Ohm impedance speaker gives us just 80W/ch. Doubling the speaker impedance halves the power output.

Let's do the reverse, 3 Ohm speaker on an AV receiver delivering 160W/ch from a 6 Ohm rated amp gives (drum roll, please)......... 320W. [At this point it's important to stress that you mustn't put low Ohms speakers on to an amp designed to drive a higher Ohm load. The closer a speaker gets to zero Ohms which is a dead short then the more likely it is to blow the amp and possibly kill the speakers too.] The point of the above is to show that Wattage figures can be manipulated in lots of ways. 1000 Watts in to 3 Ohms is not the same as 1000W in to 6 or 8 Ohms; so the idea that the slim all-in-one kit BD player/amp is somehow as powerful as an AV receiver is just a fallacy.

If you want to go beyond this and explore just how much of a liberty the manufacturers of all-in-one kits take with their power figures then you can factor in distortion, and the duration of the audio test; and the frequency at which the measurement is taken; and the fact that only one channel is driven; and it's not in to a real speaker but a dummy load. All of this adds up to a vastly inflated measurement where 100W on paper probably represents something as little as 10 Watts of real usable power.

[Orbitalzone]

Thanks for the reply Chris, appreciate the effort which certainly raises some good points about the crafty ways to get super inflated power ratings.

Imagine if car makers did the same trickery to get their MPG ratings, oh wait they probably do

[Chris Frost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

Imagine if car makers did the same trickery to get their MPG ratings, oh wait they probably do

Well, if they took lessons from some of the audio companies then your next car would boast 400mpg instead of 40