Samsung and Apple are ready to adopt non-removable e-SIM

Everything Goes · 17-07-2015, 23:17

The e-Sim is getting closer to reality It will be an embedded Sim that cannot be removed.

Quote:

The Financial Times claims that talks are at an advanced stage and will affect the UK and US, with the operators that are expected to support the plan being AT&T, Deutche Telekom, Etisalat, Hutchinson Whampoa, Orange, Telefonica and Vodafone.

http://www.neowin.net/news/samsung-a...sim-technology

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1346...for-the-better

Old Endeavour · 17-07-2015, 23:52

"The ability to immediately transfer service from one handset to another without having to carry a SIM card" - Yes because the hell it is to carry around SIM card that weights 0.0000001g

And of course great when you brick your phone and can't get the e-sim details back. I've just spent 4 days getting my IMEI number back and working on my phone after a massive malfunction.

So this is just another invention for no bloody good reason.

d123 · 17-07-2015, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Endeavour

"The ability to immediately transfer service from one handset to another without having to carry a SIM card" - Yes because the hell it is to carry around SIM card that weights 0.0000001g

And of course great when you brick your phone and can't get the e-sim details back. I've just spent 4 days getting my IMEI number back and working on my phone after a massive malfunction.

So this is just another invention for no bloody good reason.

I would agree, this is a stupid idea. If I want to sim swap I don't want to be at the mercy of the networks to do so, nor do I want to be phoning or filling in some online form every time.

Luckily I would expect they will have to keep a sim slot as well for all the MVNOs who aren't included.

DevonBloke · 18-07-2015, 01:01

At the end of the day though this is the way it's moving and it will be the way it is in the not too distant future.

finbaar · 18-07-2015, 10:21

It is moving that way but for some time there will be options. I can see it working for those who want to be tied in with a contract, particularly the Yanks, but in the majority of the world you purchase your handset and airtime separately.

Mark C · 18-07-2015, 10:33

It's no worse (and probably slightly better) than having a handset locked to a network ?
In effect a request to change networks would be no worse than the present system of requesting an unlock code, and then going through a PAC request and migration.

This new system would presumably achieve all of that in one hit ?

As for buying a 'SIM free' phone, you just register its IMEI with whatever network you wish to use ?

The only problem is using more than one network at the same time, for instance going on holiday, and using a local network rather than roaming ?

jchamier · 18-07-2015, 10:59

I can see the manufacturing cost benefits to having a fixed "sim" inside the phone, but this goes against the idea of the handset and the service being separate - something the EU mandated in directives in early 1990s.

The US has long had technical differences between their networks, so they don't have a culture of people moving network to get the best deal - and keeping their handset. Some of the networks (CDMA based Sprint and Verizon) even didn't have SIM cards at all. Now they have SIM for their 4G LTE service.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark C

The only problem is using more than one network at the same time, for instance going on holiday, and using a local network rather than roaming ?

Yes this is the flexibility that will be lost that the EU has in law. Unless Apple/Samsung have web portals where you can sign in and change the network on your phone, for the end user. So this is why this concept stopped last time it was discussed.

Everything Goes · 31-08-2015, 23:27

Samsung's new Smartwatch The Gear S2 3G will have an e-Sim:

http://www.sammobile.com/2015/08/31/...oled-displays/

ShaunIOW · 01-09-2015, 00:48

So how will an embedded SIM help when your phone goes wrong and you have to use a spare? Recently my phone had to go back for repair, so I took the SIM card out and put it in a spare phone temporarily.

Mass Corona · 01-09-2015, 01:51

SIM swapping is just so useful and no hassle that it won't go away without a fight.

Also even if I am in a contract I don't want a locked phone as after I have seen the contract out I consider it to be my property and not something to be held to ransom with.

So Phones and services should always be separate even if you chose to combine them in a contract for a while.

Aye Up · 01-09-2015, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaunIOW

So how will an embedded SIM help when your phone goes wrong and you have to use a spare? Recently my phone had to go back for repair, so I took the SIM card out and put it in a spare phone temporarily.

The embedded sim will be slow to take off, Apple pushed it with iPad Air 2 because it can afford to, unless I am mistaken there has only been a handful of European providers that are able to support. Thus nano sim is retained, EE are the only UK network I know of that supports this E-Sim type stuff anyway (given they are the market leaders anyway).

Its another option Apple and Samsung are adding to the mix, eventually it may come the norm, both companies have too much to lose to force this measure down networks throats. Apple may get away with certain practices of fixing handset prices and the like, I guarrantee networks won't take this change without a fuss.

I a nutshell future Apple and Samsung devices will support the standard but for the forseeable future will also include sim techology at the same time.

moox · 01-09-2015, 10:19

I don't like the idea.

The size argument has been pretty much defeated with micro and nano SIMs, and I prefer the absolute flexibility a real SIM provides, as I know for sure that I don't need the device manufacturer or network operator's permission to switch phones.

alanwarwic · 01-09-2015, 10:53

Much of it does not seem to be for consumer benefit, the idea being used to give 3rd party control of your device network choices.

Incompatible CDMA manages that well in the US too.

alanwarwic · 01-09-2015, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Samsung's new Smartwatch The Gear S2 3G will have an e-Sim:

http://www.sammobile.com/2015/08/31/...oled-displays/

Maybe some networks will allow an e-sim to be tied to a real Sim. That is what is needed for smartwatches etc.
There are times for night out when a cheap 4" or less phone is more suited, but changing Sim is inconvenient.

What is obvious too, is that network ties impose limitations that are bypassed by the likes of Whatsapp and Hangouts.

Stiggles · 01-09-2015, 13:46

Not keen on this idea. I travel a lot and switch sims to foreign networks. This will just add hassle to that.

17-07-2015, 23:17	#1
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Samsung and Apple are ready to adopt non-removable e-SIM The e-Sim is getting closer to reality It will be an embedded Sim that cannot be removed. Quote: The Financial Times claims that talks are at an advanced stage and will affect the UK and US, with the operators that are expected to support the plan being AT&T, Deutche Telekom, Etisalat, Hutchinson Whampoa, Orange, Telefonica and Vodafone. http://www.neowin.net/news/samsung-a...sim-technology http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1346...for-the-better

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17-07-2015, 23:52	#2
Old Endeavour Inactive Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 9,746	"The ability to immediately transfer service from one handset to another without having to carry a SIM card" - Yes because the hell it is to carry around SIM card that weights 0.0000001g And of course great when you brick your phone and can't get the e-sim details back. I've just spent 4 days getting my IMEI number back and working on my phone after a massive malfunction. So this is just another invention for no bloody good reason.

17-07-2015, 23:57	#3
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by Old Endeavour "The ability to immediately transfer service from one handset to another without having to carry a SIM card" - Yes because the hell it is to carry around SIM card that weights 0.0000001g And of course great when you brick your phone and can't get the e-sim details back. I've just spent 4 days getting my IMEI number back and working on my phone after a massive malfunction. So this is just another invention for no bloody good reason. I would agree, this is a stupid idea. If I want to sim swap I don't want to be at the mercy of the networks to do so, nor do I want to be phoning or filling in some online form every time. Luckily I would expect they will have to keep a sim slot as well for all the MVNOs who aren't included.

18-07-2015, 01:01	#4
DevonBloke Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Totnes, Devon Posts: 6,694	At the end of the day though this is the way it's moving and it will be the way it is in the not too distant future.

18-07-2015, 10:21	#5
finbaar Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,921	It is moving that way but for some time there will be options. I can see it working for those who want to be tied in with a contract, particularly the Yanks, but in the majority of the world you purchase your handset and airtime separately.

18-07-2015, 10:33	#6
Mark C Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hampshire Posts: 8,102	It's no worse (and probably slightly better) than having a handset locked to a network ? In effect a request to change networks would be no worse than the present system of requesting an unlock code, and then going through a PAC request and migration. This new system would presumably achieve all of that in one hit ? As for buying a 'SIM free' phone, you just register its IMEI with whatever network you wish to use ? The only problem is using more than one network at the same time, for instance going on holiday, and using a local network rather than roaming ?

18-07-2015, 10:59	#7
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	I can see the manufacturing cost benefits to having a fixed "sim" inside the phone, but this goes against the idea of the handset and the service being separate - something the EU mandated in directives in early 1990s. The US has long had technical differences between their networks, so they don't have a culture of people moving network to get the best deal - and keeping their handset. Some of the networks (CDMA based Sprint and Verizon) even didn't have SIM cards at all. Now they have SIM for their 4G LTE service. Quote: Originally Posted by Mark C The only problem is using more than one network at the same time, for instance going on holiday, and using a local network rather than roaming ? Yes this is the flexibility that will be lost that the EU has in law. Unless Apple/Samsung have web portals where you can sign in and change the network on your phone, for the end user. So this is why this concept stopped last time it was discussed.

31-08-2015, 23:27	#8
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Samsung's new Smartwatch The Gear S2 3G will have an e-Sim: http://www.sammobile.com/2015/08/31/...oled-displays/

01-09-2015, 00:48	#9
ShaunIOW Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 7,828	So how will an embedded SIM help when your phone goes wrong and you have to use a spare? Recently my phone had to go back for repair, so I took the SIM card out and put it in a spare phone temporarily.

01-09-2015, 01:51	#10
Mass Corona Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 713	SIM swapping is just so useful and no hassle that it won't go away without a fight. Also even if I am in a contract I don't want a locked phone as after I have seen the contract out I consider it to be my property and not something to be held to ransom with. So Phones and services should always be separate even if you chose to combine them in a contract for a while.

01-09-2015, 02:46	#11
Aye Up Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: North West Posts: 4,885	Quote: Originally Posted by ShaunIOW So how will an embedded SIM help when your phone goes wrong and you have to use a spare? Recently my phone had to go back for repair, so I took the SIM card out and put it in a spare phone temporarily. The embedded sim will be slow to take off, Apple pushed it with iPad Air 2 because it can afford to, unless I am mistaken there has only been a handful of European providers that are able to support. Thus nano sim is retained, EE are the only UK network I know of that supports this E-Sim type stuff anyway (given they are the market leaders anyway). Its another option Apple and Samsung are adding to the mix, eventually it may come the norm, both companies have too much to lose to force this measure down networks throats. Apple may get away with certain practices of fixing handset prices and the like, I guarrantee networks won't take this change without a fuss. I a nutshell future Apple and Samsung devices will support the standard but for the forseeable future will also include sim techology at the same time.

01-09-2015, 10:19	#12
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	I don't like the idea. The size argument has been pretty much defeated with micro and nano SIMs, and I prefer the absolute flexibility a real SIM provides, as I know for sure that I don't need the device manufacturer or network operator's permission to switch phones.

01-09-2015, 10:53	#13
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Much of it does not seem to be for consumer benefit, the idea being used to give 3rd party control of your device network choices. Incompatible CDMA manages that well in the US too.

01-09-2015, 11:29	#14
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Samsung's new Smartwatch The Gear S2 3G will have an e-Sim: http://www.sammobile.com/2015/08/31/...oled-displays/ Maybe some networks will allow an e-sim to be tied to a real Sim. That is what is needed for smartwatches etc. There are times for night out when a cheap 4" or less phone is more suited, but changing Sim is inconvenient. What is obvious too, is that network ties impose limitations that are bypassed by the likes of Whatsapp and Hangouts.

01-09-2015, 13:46	#15
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Not keen on this idea. I travel a lot and switch sims to foreign networks. This will just add hassle to that.

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Samsung and Apple are ready to adopt non-removable e-SIM