That's what she found so contemptable, someone actually working for a living

Even her supposed job in Blades is just her pissing about in her son's business so she can put her hand in the till whenever she fancies.

She really is despicable Taking the piss out of someone for trying to do the right thing. I suppose she has no concept of that either.

People probably keep missing it because although Shirley is regularly shown in blades I don't think I've ever seen her doing anything that even remotely resembles work. All I've ever seen her do is glare at people or bark at customers. I've no idea why such a small hairdressers would even need a receptionist anyway.

Shirley may not have been punished 'physically' but she has had her fair share of karma, even if some of it is her own doing. She has a son who is a rapist - this will destroy her when revealed. Ben - who she brought up, killed her best mate and the man she loved at the time, covered it up. Blaming herself for Jimbo and Jade, growing up with and abusive mother and a neglectful father...she has had her fair share of bad stuff. Anyway alot of characters don't always 'pay' for things. I find it interesting that these debates are continuely circular, it always end up with the same comments, regardless of the original topic.

Why are we comparing Phil and Shirley? Though see as we are, it is interesting how Shirley was ridiculed for punching Carol on here (social media saw the funny side), even though she apologized in the next ep, however Phil punching Max didn't warrant it's own thread.

In a honesty, I take Shirley's behaviour with a pinch of salt. She is funny and I find her entertaining.

To be fair to Phil (never thought I'd say that) he thinks Max killed Lucy and let his son be framed for it. A punch in those circumstances is justified IMO.

What's interesting is no one mentioned Ronnie and Roxy shrieking about Ben killing Ev just being an accident. That was cold!

Shirley was horrible in that exchange with Max but I thought the writers would have made more of her thinking Ben had killed another woman just 2 years after the last one.

It was very hypocritical of Shirley but it's nothing new because she's always been a nasty piece of work. Does she not realise that she used to work in a fried chicken takeaway restaurant before? IIRC she used to be a cleaner once?

"It is interesting how Shirley was ridiculed for punching Carol on here (social media saw the funny side), even though she apologized in the next ep, however Phil punching Max didn't warrant it's own thread" - Phil believed that Max killed Lucy and he was disgusted that Max was willing to send his son to jail for a crime he didn't commit (Max is clearly innocent). If the teenagers on social media were applauding Shirley for harshly punching Carol, then I hope they don't tolerate this kind of violence in real life.

I've stayed away from this debate because of the uncalled for tone certain posters took with me early on and when comments like 'The rapist mother' are thrown into the mix as some sort of insult against the character you start to realise you're banging your head against a brick wall.

But just to pick up on this point, Shirley didn't deliberately shoot Phil the gun went off in a struggle. She was wrong to point it at him and that would count against her with the police but twice she didn't go through with pulling the trigger in the manner you're suggesting.

She went to Phil's house with the gun as she believed that Sharon had been planning to shoot him. She turned it on him to frighten him after extreme provocation. As in the window scene she had no intention of actually shooting him as she doesn't have it in her.

Phil's life was never at risk anyway if we're honest - he has already survived more than any average human could.

The interesting thing isn't that Shirley was vile, it's that this came as a surprise. Nasty little witch she is.

Shirley was indeed vile for no reason whatsoever (unless Max has slighted Shirley in the past in a plot I've forgotten) but then that is her default setting.

There is a lot wrong with Max (most of which also apply to shirley as in being a cheater, walking away from famllies, not accepting responsibility for his actions) but working in a chippy to try and earn money is not one of them. At least he accepted it in better grace than shirley used to speak to customers when she worked at Mcclunkeyys or the 7/11.

I wouldn't have found it funny if it was Phil either (don't find anybody taking pleasure in humiliating another funny) but at least there would have been some understandable context to it given how they've felt about each other since Emma's death.

Have to agree. Whenever she is shown she seems to be using the phone for her own personal business (like ringing Social Services) whilst either ignoring or snarling at customers and staff.

Even if we assume she is doing a good job when we're not watching, she only has that job through nepotism, Her Dad paid to set her son up and she has threatened/blackmailed Phil to keep them solvent since. Buster appears to pay for everything at the B+B.

The only jobs Shirley has ever got off her own back (which we have seen) were just as 'menial' as Maxs. Her more 'powerful' positions like receptionist at Blades and working in the Vic have been down to other members of her family or boyfriend (current or ex) owning the businesses and either being blackmailed into giving her work or taking pity on her.

Shirley was given a job at the Vic because she impressed Peggy with her handling of a group of rowdy punters. This was before she had ever been with Phil and she was good at it because she worked there for ages and Peggy wouldn't have stood for any nonsense. There was one incident where she let Garry behind the bar and they got drunk while Peggy was on a cruise but she was usually seen to be doing the job well.

When Dean was missing earlier this year, it was Shirley who got Blades up and running again. She wouldn't have been able to do that if she was on the phone making personal calls all the time.

Dean wouldn't allow her to stay if she wasn't pulling her weight. She may be his mum who has stood by him but he's not averse to putting her in her place. The reason we don't see Shirley take work-related calls is that it's not relevant to the plot. It's like the assumption that she has turned her back on Carly and Jimmy because we haven't seen her talk about them on screen.

Weren't they involved during the ridiculous Carl White storyline?

When Phil "dug" for her corpse.

Great post. She's quite lazy when she does her "jobs". If she was my employee, I would definitely give her a warning. I know Shirley has personal life issues but when she's at work, she needs to focus properly. I do love that she walks out during the middle of the day because if I did that, I would be in trouble with my boss.

I don't get why she was horrid to him?

Shirley is an awful character and always has been. People seem to forget she treated Heather like shit yet Heather for all her faults really tired to make a go of her life and was never work shy. Shirley is a lazy, nasty bitch who would rather steal money than earn it.

Heather was always the better character of the double act. They should have killed Shirley instead of her.

Besides everything else Shirley's son is a disgusting rapist. She has no moral ground to stand on. Any other mother would be ashamed to cast stones on others but not Saint Shirley of Walford.

There is no doubt that what Shirley did to Max was mean and uncalled for, but I'm bemused that out of all the truly awful things that other characters did this week that her action is the only one that warrants a (long) thread.

Phil betrayed his son and Jay, and was convinced his son had killed again. He then:

Manipulated a young girl to lie to the police.

Abi then lied about her own father to save her boyfriend from a charge of murder

And the real culprits....the Beales, kept their mouths shut and even planned to incriminate Ben to save their own necks.

Such is DS.

Ian and Jane were protecting their son from the world, Phil was protecting the world from his son. Abi is a screwed up young girl who needs help.

Shirley on the other hand was behaving vile to another human being because she simply enjoys it.

...and besides you like Ian, Jane and Phil. IMO they are scum and proved it this week. I am not excusing Shirley, but her action this week was nowhere near as bad as the Beales, Phil and Abi.

Soap characters are supposed to do bad things, if they didn't Eastenders would be relegated to céebeebies.

Phil, Ian, Jane and even to a lesser extent as I are characters I like because they are well rounded, have ripe history and do things for reasons.

Shirley is just vile. There was no reason for her to be evil to Max. She just was because that is her character. I find there nothing redeeming about her. She really didn't need to be included this week tbh, it felt like they were shoehorning her in for the sake of it.

BIB Good grief. I think I'll leave it there.

Everybody would be in trouble with their boss if they walked out in the middle of the day and constantly had 'more important things to do, it's family'. To be fair though, that isn't just restricted to shirley, all characters are rarely seen actually at work, usually if they are something goes wrong or they are called away. A point i concede to LHolmes. I still maintain that shirley is one of the worst portrayals we've seen of conduct whilst at work though, sitting in the store room at the Minute Mart whilst customers were waiting for service and snarling at them when they asked for it; declaring lock ins with no real authority, buying dodgy meat etc and again spending more time sitting drinking and snarling at people at the bar than serving behind it. I don't fully fully remember her first tenure at the Vic under Peggy so have to take others word on that. But everything since, dire. Has it occurred to anybody that Dean might not feel able to fire shirley in case she turns on him re the rape, he loses his home and Phil's subsidy of the Salon?

Er? Ian and Jane had plenty threads about their behaviour last week, there's two about Abi and (Oh Gawd, I'm defending Phil again) Phil thinks Max killed Lucy so manipulating Abi is small beer). He was awful with Jay though and that's consistent with how horrible he is. Bratty Paul has a thread. And Sharon had several pages dedicated to a look she may or may not have made toStacey last week. Not getting at you, just I see it very differently. Shirley gets plenty criticism but she isn't the only one.

Yes Abi is getting (a bit) of flack, but I can't see anything about Jane, Ian and Phil beyond the odd post. And IMO they were horrendous....loathsome.

(Snipped your post because this thread is nothing to do with you know who.)

I don't mind Shirley getting flack, in fact I'll happily join in...you don't kick someone when they're down, but there was far, far worse behaviour from others this week.

Basically an awful lot of people justifiably despise Shirley therefore threads pointing out her prolific bad behaviour are popular

I maintain that Shirley is one of those loathsome people that can't stand people trying to make something of themselves and wants them to stay rock bottom so she can finally feel superior to them. Max taking any job and trying to make things better for himself and family is therefore fair game for her derision. Shirley really has no redeeming features whatsoever which does make her unique even in a den of iniquity like Walford

Max should've told Shirley a few home truths. That rancid excuse for a person has no claim for moral highground.