It's a shame that in such a busy week, with so much going on, that this has become the biggest talking point on DS. I don't post on here much anymore, but I thought this week would throw up some interesting discussions, but sadly not. Back to lurking for me.

Everyone else had reasons for behaving badly, whether justified or not. Shirley mocked someone when they were down, you could see her pleasure in insulting Max who was just trying to earn a living.m

I think that's a good idea if you can't take one thread deservedly having a go at the loathsome Shirley

Thats what a lot of mass murderers say as they head to the gallows..

The main difference between all of those characters and Shirley is that are all well rounded characters and when the writing is good the viewer can understand the motivations behind their actions. We've seen discussions between Ian and Jane about what to do, we saw the conversation between Ian and Phil that lead to him handing over the evidence, we saw Phil manipulating Abi to go to the police about Max.

If the producers want more people to understand Shirley's motivations (not to like her because I don't think she was ever intended to be a character that people would like but at least to understand where she's coming from) then we need more scenes like the ones that she shared with Carol a few weeks back and less scenes like the one with Max.

This is the crux of the entire Shirley debate. She's a horrible character and therefore a lot of people justifiably hate her. I don't see that changing any time soon.

I think Shirley is one of the most inconsistent and badly written characters in the show. Her backstory changes more often than her knickers but that's not even the worst part. One episode she'll be nice to someone and the next she'll be horrible to someone else. Sometimes it's even the same person!

Say what you want about Ian and Phil but at least they're consistent. I also think they're in another league to Shirley when it comes to being well written, layered characters. Perhaps that's why there's some understanding and less of an outrage when they commit despicable acts. We understand these characters even if we don't like them. I cannot understand Shirley. She's just vile for the sake of it without any redeeming qualities.

Also, the gun didn't go off in a struggle. Ms. Carter pointed it at the Mitchells and walked towards them as they were walking out of the room. Mrs. Mitchell then launched herself at Ms. Carter to prevent her from shooting her husband. Why was there a "struggle" at all if Ms. Carter didn't intend to fire the gun? Had that been the case she'd have dropped the gun or handed it over. It wasn't like the Mitchells were going to turn it on her. She was the one brandishing it like a mad woman.

That's not what I'm saying atall. I'm quite happy to see her knocked every time she puts a foot wrong, after all she's easy to find fault with. BUT I was expecting far more criticism of Phil and the Beales this week, but it seems that endless excuses have been made for their abysmal behaviour and in most people's eyes they can do no wrong...they are just protecting their psycho sons.

Whether other characters deseve to be criticised or not it still doesn't alter the fact that Shirley was her usual vile self to Max. You can't use other characters as scapegoats for Shirley.

i think posters have been quite critical about Phil and th Beales actions but people have enjoyed seeing them on screen.

I haven't seen anyone make out they can do no wrong

Honestly Val I just can't see it. Abi is getting plenty justified flak, there are several threads stretching back to last week about Ian, Jane, Bobby.

Again I have to begrudgingly defend Phil (Please shoot me if I grow peroxide curls and start screeching Gerr outta mah pub!) -he thinks Max killed Lucy and let his son be framed; he also turned his own son in - that's actually some interesting character development there which he hasn't had in years. I really don't think one Shirley thread detracts from all the others. The Lucy story us clearly the biggest talking point. And if she drowns Ben next week for old times sake I'll cheer her on!