After having some issues with EE, ie. some periods of time when my service was down, resulting in many pounds spent on talking to hardly understandable accents from India and being charged £60 for an engineer's visit when I was specifically assured that this charge would be waived, I am considering changing my supplier.
I am thinking of signing up with BT, but in view of BT's takeover of EE would I get a better deal by moving to BT now, or wait until any possible "carrots" being dangled by EE??
As I do hardly any downloading of movies etc. I was considering BT's basic bb + phone service but I am open to suggestions.
Although I like football I'm not particularly anxious to use BT's new Premier League/Champions' League etc. TV service unless it came as free add-on to any bb + phone service.
Any comments gratefully received folks.

You really couldn't do any worse than EE no matter who you go with! Horrendous company, horrendous customer service, and their bills are a nightmare to understand! Even their customer service reps have difficulty.

But if you're still in contract, be prepared for a rather large fee if you leave, although just tell them to whistle.

Also, no more mac codes needed, which makes life easier.

being charged £60 for an engineer's visit which BT openreach charged you there are a lot of other providers besides BT

and your service being down could of been a BT issue not an EE's

If you are charged then the fault is at your end, if it wan't you would not have been charged.

BT didn't charge this end user anything, neither did Openreach, it's possible that Openreach charged EE for an inappropriate fault report, and that charge was passed on by EE, but if the end user was assured that they would not do this and then they did, how is that anyone's fault but EE's ?, Openreach don't charge end users anything, they cannot, they don't have a contract or relationship with end users...if they get sent out by Sky or Talk talk or BT or EE on a fools errand, then they charge the company that sent them out...if that company choses to not absorb the cost and bill the end user, again that's up to that company not OR
Service being down could be BT and not EE...again the end user isn't a BT customer so it cannot be down to BT, if there was a problem on equipment or lineplant that EE effectively rent off others then re-sell to the end user, then its EE's responsibility to sort it out even if it's one if their suppliers that needs to do something...if you had a new Ford car and the engine failed you wouldn't accept Ford saying the engine was made by another company and you best take it up with them would you ?, you would say I bought the car off you, the engine is part of the car, so fix or replace it, and that experience may colour your judgement the next time you bought a new car

that wasnt the point I was making the point was If its BTs equipment then it would still have been a fault if the customer was with BT you cant say EE are rubbosh when they only produce a bill and arranged for BT OR to fix the fault. they did all they could do being not the company who supply the lines,

and BT OR decided to charge the customer it WAS NOT EE'S choice or their decision if BT hadnt of decided to charge and EE said oh we will charge you anyway then you can blame EE and not BT but they didnt

OR would have charged EE, not the customer, it is then up to EE if they pass on the charge to the customer.

that is not the point BT decide to make it a free or chargeable fault not EE and ALL companies pass this fee on so BT RETAIL would of passed it on even though BT OR may not have charged BT RETAIL

EE is Openreach or BT Wholesale's customer. Openreach/BTW charges EE if there is no fault found or if the fault was not on their side of the wiring.

EE can then choose to pass the cost on to their customer (the end user) or they can choose to absorb it as a gesture of goodwill. In this case they have apparently promised one thing and done another

Most ISPs will charge for a visit that Openreach has charged them for - there isn't enough profit in it to keep eating the cost, at least for residential broadband. Better ISPs than EE will at least be upfront about that possibility though

and BT retail would of charged so saying EE are out of order making me pay is RUBBISH as BT RETAIL would of made them pay as well. all ISPs are upfront about it and the op would of been told that OR would charge if the fault was in their wiring. visits or only FREE if its in OR's wiring because you pay THEM monthly to ensure it is error free. I have not heard of 1 isp saying we wont charge to fix your own faulty wiring and dont believe EE said they would in this case. more likely they asked the customer was there any extensions and the like. The customer said no nothing like that so EE said it can only be our wiring so we wont charge, OR turns up and fault is in previously undeclared op's wiring so was charged.

you cannot blame EE for the customers own wiring and MOST if NOT ALL will charge you to FIX YOUR OWN WIRING

I am not even defending OR they COULD of just fixed it and said nothing BUT BT are becoming more and more money grabbers and charge ALL CUSTOMERS extra for sports that only the minority want to receive.

I would bet that it is a typical call center rep thing - promise anything to get the customer off the phone, forget the promises once they hang up.

BT Wholesale/Openreach has been somewhat gung ho about charging for ages. I had them try to charge me for a fault that was 100% on their side, simply because their technician came to my house, got sync with his modem, and was able to run a test (none of which had anything to do with the problem I was reporting). That was 10 years ago.

BT have even been on watchdog because they charged stupidly

So are you proposing that if a service provider makes an inappropriate fault report, say a Sky customer with a faulty Sky box plugged into the phone line, reports the phone line out of order, then OR should go out, unplug the faulty Sky box (thus restoring the phone line) and OR should accept that expense , and employ lots or extra staff to cover this work, you would accept (I presume) paying more in line rental to cover the extra staff, vans, tools, etc so they can solve problems that are not on OR's lineplant
OR don't get everything right, but the principle is sound, you prove your own equipment isn't faulty before calling OR out via your service provider, if the fault is on OR's network the repair is free, if you have called out OR on something they are not responsible for, OR charge the service provider, because it's the service provider that calls OR out, that is why Service providers go to great lengths to impress upon the end user the potential for charges if the fault isn't OR's responsibility..
Even if the faulty equipment ultimately is owned by BT (wholesale) or Openreach, the fact is no consumer employs OR or BTW they employ a service provider who is responsible for advising the correct people if a problem occurs,
Your problem is you keep referring to BT, the end user was not a BT customer, and that the charge was made by OR, the end user never got a bill off BT or OR they got a bill off EE,
EE don't have to pass on a charge OR makes, that's their choice, it's not automatic, they chose to charge the end user, but if a service provider gets a bill off OR for an unrequired call out , and they stressed to the end user the importance of checking their own equipment, and they didn't do that, then most SP's will pass the charge on...it's not automatic, it a choice they make having given the end user fair warning, that's hardly BT or OR's doing in this case

I've had nothing but problems with this terrible company since we moved, but I've found that you get more of a result by emailing their Complaints department, it's no good at all ringing them, you just get passed around the different departments. I got charged £60 the other month, but I got it refunded.

When my contract ends I'll be off- they must be the most useless provider ever.

NO I DID NOT SAY ANY OF THAT

Name me 1 isp who absorb this charge.
with this statement "OR should accept that expense" you saying that the ISP does accept this expense they dont

I never said ISP absorb the charge and I cannot name one who does, what I did say though is that it's the ISP choice to pass on the charge, It isn't automatic.
Do you think OR charge the ISP and say that the ISP better pass the charge on or else !!, OR don't care if the charge is passed on or not, they get money off the ISP if the call out was inappropriate, because the ISP called OR not the end user
Your assertion is that the ISP has no choice so it's OR that the end user should blame , this isn't true, and if the end user feels that the charge passed on to them is unfair they can challenge it with the ISP who can in turn challenge it with OR , and this is where the end user can compare ISP's with each other, some may go the extra mile for the end user some may say pay up and shut up...
In the OP's case, they say they were assured by EE that they wouldn't get charged, OR never said this, EE did, they, EE not OR , charged them, it is irrelevant if OR charged the ISP,
Like the OP if this happened to me I would be looking to change ISP, not thinking 'oh well it's OR's fault really , and it would be the same regardless of who I was with'

Finally you keep saying BT, BT is BT retail and have absolutely nothing to do with OR and EE's relationship, even if you mean OR when you say BT , you say it's up to OR what's charged for , that's obvious, they set the rules (with OFCOM) why should they fix things they are not responsible for ?
Some may get a lucky break and the OR engineer indicates the problem somewhere other than where the problem really was, to save the end user being charged, the moral is be nice to the person who turns up, it may save you money by him or her bending the rules to your advantage

Do you think OR charge the ISP and say that the ISP better pass the charge on or else !
......... BT charge 18£ for adsl an average of £15 profit other providers charge £2,99 a very probable loss and you think they will accept ANOTHER £60 loss

well the rest of it is just the rubbish you are quoting
and to be honest an isp charging £3 or less for bb and less than BT retail for line rental doesnt really have a choice but to pass this cost on otherwise they might as well let you rip them off and pay them nothing

Finally you keep saying BT, BT is BT retail and have absolutely nothing to do with OR and EE's relationship,

are you really that naive i dont think you are.......

EE broadband UNLIMITED EE BROADBAND & CALLS
ONLY £2.95 PER MONTH FOR 12 MONTHS*
Plus line rental from £13.75**

SO £35.40 A YEAR FOR BB and YOU think THEY SHOULD PAY £60 TO FIX YOUR WIRES

are you really being serious in saying this should be free

No one really sells broadband for £3 , what they do is use the mark up on line rental , wholesale line rental, £8 ( to OR, ) retail price for most providers £17 to £19 , so the £9 to £11 mark up goes to subsidise the real cost of broadband , so they can have a headline figure that only the gullible believe , or do you believe it ?
I no idea what BT average broadband price is, but they have the most broadband customers ,
I'm sure for some how cheap something is is probably the most important thing, but they are probably the same people who believe they are getting broadband for £3, and blaming OR for £17 line rental even though OR get £8 and the ISP keeps the rest
If you have evidence that OR pass on the details of any commercial contract between them and EE to BT Retail , perhaps you should contact OFCOM and pass on the evidence to them

what are you waffling on ABOUT AT ALL. your right the ISP make probably between 7 and 9 pound a month profit but on BT prices are LOSING £15/ BT retail charge (MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE) at 17,99 (due to be 18.99) MOST OTHER providers charge 15,99
so £7 profit. BB Wholesale off OR or even the costs to THEM LLU isnt £3 for BB and BTR charge £18 a MONTH just for BB (well you get BT SPORT FREE........) dont know how its free but oh well thats stupid customers for you.

BT OR is OWNED BY BT GROUP. THE CEO HAS TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT BOTH BT RETAIL AND BT OPENREACH THATS HIS JOB.

just explain how you can say BT are so innocent in all this when its just PRODUCTS THEY sell to OTHER people as THEY OWN THE NETWORK.....

BT OR HAS TO TELL EVERYONE WHAT DEAL EVERYONE ELSE GETS THEY ARE THE RULES SET OUT BY OFCOM or did you not know that

Your post is incomprehensible.

they are best that way

The original post was from an EE customer considering moving to BT due to poor service and being charged by EE for something they said they wouldn't charge for, you launch into an anti BT tirade..there are some facts though,
The end user was not charged by OR, it's impossible for OR to charge an end user anything , the end user never got an invoice from OR
Any problems the end user had with EE as a service provider cannot be attributed to another service provider (BTRetail)
BT Retail and Openreach although part of the same group are operationally separate company's
If your original reply to the OP was , leaving EE for BT is a bad move because in your opinion BT are worse, and that most if not all providers would pass on a charge made by OR to them, if the problem was the end users responsibility , fair enough, but if you re-read your own posts you will see that your posts don't say that and are littered with references to BT when it's OR you are giving an opinion on
Not sure if my posts count as waffling , I would suggest people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

when you are using BT GROUP equipment it doesnt matter who the isp is you will receive the same service and as the problem will ALWAYS be dealt with by BT OR then fault resolution and charges are exactly the same. so saying I am moving to BT so I dont have this issues is nonsense as they would of had exactly the same issues and I cannot see EE saying oh you only pay us £120 a year but if the problem is in your house we wont pass any charges of £60 on to you. and if they did I wouldnt of believed them anyway.

The companies are run separately on paper