I Think if we went through all the Hollyoaks Plot Holes we would be here till 2025

Diane wants them both because she once claimed that Deedee and Anthony have a bond and it would upset them if they were split up.

Diane is really pissing me off atm.

It infuriates me the way Diane goes round shouting "she's my daughter" at Tegan, completing ignoring the fact that she has Tegan's daughter at home.

I have never seen Hollyoaks in such a terrible state. It reminds me of brookside in its declining years

It's quite hard to decide whether the show is in a worse state now or during the Lucy Allen era.

I think most of the storylines now are at least vaguely interesting - the baby kidnapping, surrogacy plot, McQueen abuse, Loveday drama whereas during LA's era we had episodes focused on Lawnmower races not to mention dire episodes like the teens breaking in to get their GCSE results and poor characters played by dodgy actors like Archie Carpenter, Dave, Ravi etc
There's definitely deadwood now - the Roscoe's and Scott in particular but there's a lot of very good actors still in it

However, I genuinely don't think there has ever been as many dislikeable characters in the show as there is now. The writers are entirely to blame because some of them - Nancy, Diane, Tony, John Paul, Ste are played by really good actors, some of the show's best

I think the plots are on the whole much stronger now than the LA era as is the acting generally but I'd agree that the characterisation is pretty worrying

Tell me about it!!

It also does not help to know that Kirkwood thinks the Tegan/Leela/Ziggy storyline is so popular he says it's set to run & run & run....

Also, his plans to sex up the show is awful. Their is too much random bed hopping as it is. Also, since Hollyoaks always state that the shows target audience is younger viewers, it irresponsible.

On the one hand Hollyoaks have Jason with his negative body image storyline & on the other hand Kirkwood wants to have more cast showing off their bodies to attract viewers. A lot of the cast are now working out like mad, because of the edict. For example Kieron Richardson says he does not think he has a good body & I heard he's trying to work out & I think it's all very sad.

I'm actually not against the 'sexing up'; I feel like it's a move back towards the show's original ethos. It should be a guilty pleasure. It doesn't have to be about bed hopping.

A set of the 2006 credits are on YouTube here, I think they have a great vibe of a fun and sexy show.

God, those credits are a blast from the past, aren't they? Back when the show had actual storylines, and decent characters. It actually makes me miss it, but at the same time, it makes me realise that show is dead and gone, and never coming back.

There's nothing wrong with a sexy show, but as far as I can tell, what's going on behind the scenes now is some very nasty body fascism. This idea that the lads have all got to get their tits out all the time is gross. Who is the show even for now? It seems like a weird combination of very young schoolkids, and the older gay gentleman who wants to get excited over something. I don't know who else could get anything out of it - there's no warmth or wit or intelligence, it's nasty and stupid and misogynistic, there's just no talent there.

There's no saving it now, mainly because no one at HO seems to think there's a problem - Kirkwood seems to think they're just a massively talented bunch who are producing telly gold. It amazes me.

I agree. The Tegan thing is a good example. They on the one hand are pushing the idea of that real beauty lies inside and that Ziggy should have chosen her. On the other hand they are pushing the body beautiful for all its worth. I couldn't believe the shot of Ziggy I think just wearing a thong from the rear.

That character would have to spend hours just on his hair! He would pick Leela every time as an asset to shine on him. If you look at the girlfriends and wives of formula 1 they are all thin long hair beauties. Hollyoaks has for along time been viewed as more glamour than acting ability and it is worse now than ever.

I really don't know if HO can get out of the black hole it is currently in. I am only watching in the sheer hope that it improves again. The latest event to show me how bad it's got is Lockie having an affair with John Paul AND Mercedes. It would have been more believable if he was just seeing JP. Who on earth decided to throw Mercedes in the mix??? Ridiculous.

There's no moral consistency on anything in this show.

It's wrong for Freddie and Lindsey to betray Joe, or Cindy to put the moves on her daughter's boyfriend, yet it's totally OK for Tegan to snatch Ziggy from under Leela's nose or JP to cheat with his "favourite cousin's" husband (to the point where the writers deliberately make Leela and Porsche look bad so the viewer will support the cheating!)

Patrick is evil and abusive, yet when Maxine then moves onto men who show controlling behaviour similar to Patrick's, it's beautiful and romantic and Darren/Dodger is her knight in shining armour.

The Jen/Tilly storyline made the point that Jen should never have got involved with a student (even though they loved each other), but then we got Nancy, who was prepared to have an affair with Robbie while he was her student - and the only "problem" the viewer was supposed to see with it was that she'd be cheating on Darren.

On and on it goes ...

Yes its the worst its ever been and its had low points before.
I've stopped watching now.

Where to begin........?

As of right now I am barely watching the show and as someone who watched it from the very first episode it saddens me because I have stuck through HO in the good times, the ok times and the not so great times. However for me this is most definitely the worse it has ever been and what is so unbelievable to myself is that the person behind its incredible decline is the actual person who gave me HO when it was at it's absolute best (1996 - 1998).

I shake my head and wonder what the hell happened to BK from when he originally left HO to when he return for him to end up being a completely different producer and there is only one thing I can think of and that is Eastenders. What ever happen there and how that job did not succeeded for him in a very public manner has done something to him IMO because I can't understand how a man who was so great at creating characters, SLs and families that we loved/enjoyed to now making the ridiculous and forgettable stories and uninteresting people in the soap that leave me not even worried about missing out on any episodes.
I am SO over the constant affairs or that swapping of partners especially when it's between family members. The current characters are ok, some better than others but even the good ones are being dragged down with the mess that is HO now.

I can't believe that I am saying this because I never thought I would said it about THIS man but the only way that HO can try to recover is if he goes. Any thing good thing I felt of him and his skills as a series producer is absolutely gone. For me him not seeing the state that HO Is in now and has been for a while and not realising that he needs to go back and watch a week/months worth of HO from 1996 to see what quality he did bring to a soap. Having that light bulb moment and clueing up that he need to change up pretty much everything he has been doing.
But I don't think there is a hope in hell of this happening so IMO HO will continue in the way it is doing right now until the likelihood of it finally being axed for good.

(Sorry for the long rant!)

it goes round and round more times then the London eye... Ziggy and Teagen, Maxine and Patrick, Darren and Nancy, Sienna and Nancy/Sanage/Nico...

I have watched it from basically the start, and it I only watch it now for the comedy value... just to see where the craziness goes from here. People are kidnapped over and over again... stories that either go around and around endlessly, or disappear off screen for weeks on end to the point you have forgotten them

I have watched more or less since the start, but tonight I actively chose not to watch. The whole storyline with Tegan and Rose was the last straw after last night. I hate how Diane has been painted as the victim. Tegan never just said well if you take my baby I'll take yours, but instead quaking in fear of Diane mouthing off. Plus a million other things. As for the Loveday's they were a complete joke last night, their scenes were terrible. I was actually shocked at how bad last night's episode was, possibly the worst I have seen.

As a long term viewer the current state of the show is sad to see. I know programmes develop and move on, but Hollyoaks is barely recognisable now and not for the better. If I was Phil Redmond I would be furious at the mess Kirkwood is making of his creation. Kirkwood needs to carefully examine what has made Hollyoaks great in the past and why it has had its sucesses. If he can't do that then leave. To be honest it is a pity the production crew and cast can't bring a vote of no confidence against him to kick him out.

why don't the powers that be, get rid of Kirkwood... mind you if you were an executive producer, would you want to take this utter tosh on. It would take so long to get it back to being ok, you would need major cast culls... and that is just the usual anyway

It used to be good....when it first started and in the mid 00s, plus again in 2012-2013. Now it's a joke. The amount of deaths, kidnappings and bizzare romances is unreal.

Not to mention the hammy acting - what is it with girls (and gays) liking Ziggy? He's a talentless pretty boy who looks as if he bathes in chicken curry to keep his orange look.

The problem is Kirkwood, but the problem is also Channel 4. It's under poor management with Jay Hunt who is VERY derided on other parts of this forum and likes to milk shows to death, even if their failing. An example is "Deal or No Deal" - that was getting 2 million an episode when it first started, now it just scrapes 50,000! Perhaps Kirkwood has to answer to Hunt, and she may have total confidence in his work!!

All these stunts\deaths are boring now... We expect a stunt every season, and whenever a cast member announces their exit we expect them to die.... This needs to be cut dramatically.

In the last 10 years, 70 characters have been killed off, compared to the 19 deaths in the other 10 years of the shows history, and with at least 4 more deaths by Christmas, its no wonder viewers aren't bothering to invest interest in post 2012 characters.

Alot of Characters do not work, many never have... Frankie, Diane, Freddie, Joe, Ziggy, Lynsey, Dr. Savage, Celine, Cameron, Lockie, Louis, Scott and Ben have no place or are too poorly developed to be saved, in my opinion, they need to go.

They need to try to bring some characters back as they have been missed, have strong reason to return, or simply were wasted before they left\axed. Jacqui McQueen, Amy Barnes and Martha Kane are three characters where the show would benefit from their returns... I'd even look at returns from Hannah & Josh Ashworth, Lauren Valentine, Michaela & Bart McQueen and Brendan and Cheryl Brady.

The stories need to be written better and more poingiant. Baby Katy's death was one of the best stories recently imo ... The writing, emotion, and performances (Namely in the form of Steph Davies) were top form, Silas' serial murders and Lynsey Nolan's war against him, Brendan Brady's rooftop confession, Niall's revenge on the McQueen's, Sarah Barnes' parachute death, McDean and Calvin's murder are other fantastic parts of HO history, but then when you have this Leela\Ziggy\Tegan nonsense and Cindy's insultingly badly written bipolar story, you forget the moments like that.

Other legends are in danger of loosing their status, Tony, Cindy, Nancy, John-Paul, Mercedes and Ste are fast declining with their fan bases, and it won't be long until they join the ever growing List of the Dead and forgotten about forever...

Basically, this is probably the weakest HO has EVER been in its 20 years, and it needs saving. Kirkwood needs to step down before the damage he has done becomes irreparable.

Completely agree- HO used to be excellent at the shock factor on deaths. Sarah Barnes, Lynsey Nolan and Rae Wilson's deaths for example stand out for me and were all shocking and brilliantly excecuted. These days we expect someone to die in every other episode. The storylines are all rubbish (besides Pete and Cleo) and it really has become embarrassing to watch.

(Sarah's death was the best soap death ever imo and Lynsey's was the most shocking)

The problem is, the show cannot be salvaged anymore. What on earth could they do? The only audience members they have left are the ones watching for the crazy pace of storytelling, the "shocks" and stunts and twists and the 'hot' cast who will tweet their fans and plug teeth whitening on Twitter.

If they did what was needed and go back to properly told and developed stories you'll only pull in viewers slowly, it wouldn't be a ratings grabber like Kirkwood's usual tactics. And they'd probably drive away the existing viewers who would probably be bored by a change in pace and story telling technique. They've ramped up the OTT drama so much there's no way back. There's no reality in it any more, nothing to invest in. You can't have a favourite character when they change personality overnight to suit the story.