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University police officer charged with murder for shooting of Samuel DuBose


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Old 04-08-2015, 08:30
blueblade
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Good to see the driver had the sense (and was able!) to call him out without any crap, like being tased or shot for daring to try.
Absolutely - plus he was a lot more articulate and talkative than Du Bose, and I think that threw Tensing, who didn't seem to know what to say a lot of the time. He just expected his "orders" to be obeyed to the letter, like the arrogant clown he is. Also there was two of them in the car.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:19
bollywood
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Yes, I believe Tensing has been fired. That's not quite what I meant by accountability though. If a police officer commits a crime in the course of their duties then they should be held to account in the same way as any other citizen would be. We both know that's not the case though - for example it's extremely rare for officers to be charged with perjury, let alone conspiracy to pervert the course of justice or manslaughter or murder.

FWIW, the DA who condemned Ray Tensing's conduct in shooting Samuel DuBose during a routine traffic stop was probably the polar opposite of the one who criticised Sandra Bland's response to the officer she encountered. Maybe a more common sense and less politicised justice system would better serve the rights enshrined in the Constitution and the interests of US society as a whole... ?

Any thoughts on the best way forward? Or do you think that things will eventually work themselves out without legislative change? I would be interested to hear your views on some of the other points I raise above, such as how perception of the police affects their effectiveness in dealing with communities who have long since grown to distrust them.
There's a difference between police and other professionals though. Most professionals don't face people who want to harm them and have no conscience about it. There was just another police killing a few days ago at a traffic stop. That's why officers are sometimes given the benefit of the doubt.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...shot/31013881/

The Constitution doesn't say that people can talk to officers however they want. They can disagree within reason.

I don't know what will happen going forward. There is increasing lawlessness and senseless crimes as well, so there is some polarizing going on.
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Old 04-08-2015, 22:39
bollywood
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Dubose might have had marijuana and thousands of dollars in the car ( in my town they ask you to show receipts or where you got the money, if they suspect drug dealing).

http://m.wlwt.com/news/source-2-bags...oting/34533640

This doesn't mean he should have been shot or that Tensing wasn't foolish to stick his hand in the car.

It just shows that routine stops aren't that routine.
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Old 05-08-2015, 08:43
vinba
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The problem is that some of the Officers in the States have the same sort of attitudes that the Police here had in the 70's, That they can do whatever they like and that their buddies will lie for them.. Much harder when there is so much cctv, phone camera footage or body cams. Just have a look at the murder of Blair Peach in the 70's to see how much has changed in Britain in the last 40 years..
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Old 05-08-2015, 09:52
blueblade
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How the local community notables reacted to the Du Bose shooting
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Old 05-08-2015, 10:32
vinba
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No unrest and contrast and compare with the shooting of Mark Duggan...
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Old 05-08-2015, 12:40
anne_666
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The problem is that some of the Officers in the States have the same sort of attitudes that the Police here had in the 70's, That they can do whatever they like and that their buddies will lie for them.. Much harder when there is so much cctv, phone camera footage or body cams. Just have a look at the murder of Blair Peach in the 70's to see how much has changed in Britain in the last 40 years..
I understand your comparison, but armed with guns it's a whole lot more dangerous and frightening than anything's ever been here.
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Old 05-08-2015, 12:43
anne_666
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With belt and dash cams at least there's some hope of justice. That requirement doesn't even seem to be universal or any PO checking and being accountable for their camera capacity being full. It's a convenient get out clause if they claim they were full as we've already seen in the Sandra Bland case when absolute proof of what happened out of view was conveniently not available.. How many of them got away with it before doesn't bear thinking about. It's no surprise there's so much bitter resentment.
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Old 05-08-2015, 12:55
blueblade
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No unrest and contrast and compare with the shooting of Mark Duggan...
Indeed, but we're not discussing Mark Duggan.
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Old 05-08-2015, 12:57
blueblade
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With belt and dash cams at least there's some hope of justice. That requirement doesn't even seem to be universal or any PO checking and being accountable for their camera capacity being full. It's a convenient get out clause if they claim they were full as we've already seen in the Sandra Bland case when absolute proof of what happened out of view was conveniently not available.. How many of them got away with it before doesn't bear thinking about. It's no surprise there's so much bitter resentment.
Agreed - there should be no excuse for missing video evidence. We've seen that happen too often for it to be co-incidence, in this country.
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Old 05-08-2015, 13:18
bollywood
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With belt and dash cams at least there's some hope of justice. That requirement doesn't even seem to be universal or any PO checking and being accountable for their camera capacity being full. It's a convenient get out clause if they claim they were full as we've already seen in the Sandra Bland case when absolute proof of what happened out of view was conveniently not available.. How many of them got away with it before doesn't bear thinking about. It's no surprise there's so much bitter resentment.
By the same token we can't assume that Bland was fatally harmed off camera just because we didn't see the whole thing. The Bland family hasn't produced the second autopsy and yet they now say they might be willing to accept a suicide if they have all the facts. That's looking to me like it could have been a suicide.

I should add that an arrest especially here in US isn't a film performance where you remember where to stand, it's often a crisis and the officer hopes not to get hurt, hit by oncoming traffic and any number of considerations they have to be aware of.
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:13
bollywood
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Interesting article here as to why some police slipped through their mental health screenings:

http://m.chron.com/news/us/article/P...er-6428170.php
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:20
bollywood
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A less clear shooting here:

http://mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/...&id=320814501&

Was this racist or did the officer protect himself and other people. ( I post this because the Dubose killing has been extended to ideas about most police who shoot blacks, and the OP post related to whether such shootings occur because of race, or not.
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