The build up, actual episode & immediate aftermath episode were very well handled. But as soon as there were scenes of Linda crying, being temperamental etc over & over & over it got bad. The scenes from Christmas Day where Linda told Mick were again brilliant. But as soon as she became an extra in her own story it's been awful.
EE Was Lida's rape the most poorly done rape sl in soap history??
2 of 3
Originally Posted by LHolmes:
“No that would be Carla Connor's which was a plot device for an affair, the reveal of said affair and a murder whodunit which hasn't been spoken of since the non-regular character who did it was arrested”
“No that would be Carla Connor's which was a plot device for an affair, the reveal of said affair and a murder whodunit which hasn't been spoken of since the non-regular character who did it was arrested”
This is slightly worse than Carla's simply because that was wrapped up quickly and didn't go round in circles
I think it's unrealistic in the way Linda has seemed to have gotten over it. I think most women or men who get raped at least need some sort of counselling afterwards. And Mick making it all about himself has really annoyed me. By saying a few months back that he needed to go to the doctors as Dean was making him go mad. It's like try asking your wife if she needs to see someone too Mick. As she was the one that was actually raped!
Yes and no.
No in the terms of storylining as it reflects real life and that not all rapes are reported too late for a charge to be made let alone an arrest and thay characters can believe either rape victim or rapist. The storyline also made Linda likeable and dean more intresting as a character.
Yes in terms of how screentime was balance. It was shoved down Our throats for 6 months and every other story only got about 10% screentime. It also burnt out alot of characters putting people of the show. It also made me go off mick big time.
No in the terms of storylining as it reflects real life and that not all rapes are reported too late for a charge to be made let alone an arrest and thay characters can believe either rape victim or rapist. The storyline also made Linda likeable and dean more intresting as a character.
Yes in terms of how screentime was balance. It was shoved down Our throats for 6 months and every other story only got about 10% screentime. It also burnt out alot of characters putting people of the show. It also made me go off mick big time.
Originally Posted by unclekevo:
“Nacy, Johy and Le's mum, Mik's fiancée”
“Nacy, Johy and Le's mum, Mik's fiancée”
When she marries Mik, Cary will be her sister-in-law, Shirey will be her mother-in-law and Jad/Roa will be her niece.
Originally Posted by momentarything:
“No. John Paul's was much, much worse. Attempting to make a rapist sympathetic is disgusting (and I'm not even sure EE are trying to do this, I think they're just trying, and failing, to show that a rapist is a person with other aspects to them and just because someone is a rapist doesn't mean they're a monster in all elements of their life); making the victim into a criminal with an assault charge against a student/his rapist on his record is far more so. It's a shame, cos that one started so well too.
Totally agree. I think women, especially, would be very wary of him. We haven't seen much of this- I feel like more people would give him a wide berth. I find it a bit hard to believe that Roxy, whose sister was a victim of sexual abuse, would go near Dean, especially when she has a young daughter.
That said, it's sadly realistic in some ways. I know someone who was convicted of rape and when he came out of prison, all his friends rallied round and his girlfriend was still waiting for him. One of his victims had to move down the country because her family's car and house kept getting vandalised.”
“No. John Paul's was much, much worse. Attempting to make a rapist sympathetic is disgusting (and I'm not even sure EE are trying to do this, I think they're just trying, and failing, to show that a rapist is a person with other aspects to them and just because someone is a rapist doesn't mean they're a monster in all elements of their life); making the victim into a criminal with an assault charge against a student/his rapist on his record is far more so. It's a shame, cos that one started so well too.
Totally agree. I think women, especially, would be very wary of him. We haven't seen much of this- I feel like more people would give him a wide berth. I find it a bit hard to believe that Roxy, whose sister was a victim of sexual abuse, would go near Dean, especially when she has a young daughter.
That said, it's sadly realistic in some ways. I know someone who was convicted of rape and when he came out of prison, all his friends rallied round and his girlfriend was still waiting for him. One of his victims had to move down the country because her family's car and house kept getting vandalised.”
Roxy is thick as pigs hit about mrn and only thinks of sex. So it's quite believable.
Also I think Roxy and Dean have good chemistry.
So it kinda works.
Bearing in mind that I'm a casual viewer and may have missed important stuff:
The worst element of the storyline for me was, as others have put it, Linda being sidelined and treated as an "extra" - because it was done in such a way as to make out that Mick was the one who was really suffering, that her anguish was secondary to his (and that she was obliged to do everything she could to protect him from anything further.) It's like historically, the reason rape was considered a crime was that women were treated as the property of a husband, father, etc. so raping a woman was tantamount to stealing from her "owner." Which is pretty much the impression this storyline gave after Mick found out - that the "real" problem was Dean taking/damaging something that belonged to Mick
The worst element of the storyline for me was, as others have put it, Linda being sidelined and treated as an "extra" - because it was done in such a way as to make out that Mick was the one who was really suffering, that her anguish was secondary to his (and that she was obliged to do everything she could to protect him from anything further.) It's like historically, the reason rape was considered a crime was that women were treated as the property of a husband, father, etc. so raping a woman was tantamount to stealing from her "owner." Which is pretty much the impression this storyline gave after Mick found out - that the "real" problem was Dean taking/damaging something that belonged to Mick
Originally Posted by ryanr554:
“I think it was alright, it had a couple of highs at least. The scene were Linda told the police her side of the story while Dean did the same to Shirley was really well done.
What really annoyed me was that it became more about Mick and Shirleys feud in the end, if they had kept the secret son thing seperate from the story, it would have turned out better.
As for the people who complain about them trying to make us feel sorry for Dean, you are allowed to do so. Rape is terrible but it doesn't make him devoid of humanity. He was excited to have a daughter and then he found out she had cystic fibrosis, why wouldn't you sympathize for him?
Not once have the writers ever tried to make us take his side over Lindas but a lot of people are acting like it is their intentions to do just that.”
“I think it was alright, it had a couple of highs at least. The scene were Linda told the police her side of the story while Dean did the same to Shirley was really well done.
What really annoyed me was that it became more about Mick and Shirleys feud in the end, if they had kept the secret son thing seperate from the story, it would have turned out better.
As for the people who complain about them trying to make us feel sorry for Dean, you are allowed to do so. Rape is terrible but it doesn't make him devoid of humanity. He was excited to have a daughter and then he found out she had cystic fibrosis, why wouldn't you sympathize for him?
Not once have the writers ever tried to make us take his side over Lindas but a lot of people are acting like it is their intentions to do just that.”
Originally Posted by Scrabbler:
“The actual rape episode and immediate aftermath episodes were engaging and extremely well handled. It's been a farce ever since Mick found out about it as others have said it stopped being about the victim.”
“The actual rape episode and immediate aftermath episodes were engaging and extremely well handled. It's been a farce ever since Mick found out about it as others have said it stopped being about the victim.”
Originally Posted by trevor tiger:
“The actual rape was very well done and in the immediate aftermath Linda was brilliant with even Dean being good in his intriguing stance of him thinking it was consensual but as soon as they made it about the reveal coming at Christmas it lost any cleverness, any subtlety and any decent drama because it wasn't about the horrific subject of rape but about garnering ratings for the show
It's been pretty much downhill since then to the point it seems to have been swept under the carpet. Maybe it will be resurrected to use as next Christmas's big story line
”
“The actual rape was very well done and in the immediate aftermath Linda was brilliant with even Dean being good in his intriguing stance of him thinking it was consensual but as soon as they made it about the reveal coming at Christmas it lost any cleverness, any subtlety and any decent drama because it wasn't about the horrific subject of rape but about garnering ratings for the show
It's been pretty much downhill since then to the point it seems to have been swept under the carpet. Maybe it will be resurrected to use as next Christmas's big story line
”
I agree.
I dont see what the problem with it was.
It was a good thing soap showed a type of rape that didn't involve screaming, an attack, moody thunder backdrop and someone being arrested, charged, tried and convicted inside 5 weeks.
This was a reflection, probably accurately if conviction rates are anything to go by, as to what happens 99% of the time and Linda's story is probably far more reflective of that of real victims of rape in the country than bombasitc, happy ending 'hollywood' rape storylines that are the norm in film and TV.
As a storyline it should have worked in opening our eyes to the reality of rape, it isn't always an attack in a dark alley by a stranger. It's sad when a soap tries to be true to life and people dismiss it as "poorly done" because it didn't have someone being attacked at gun-point and there wasn't a car chase.
The storyline did a service to women who are raped but never get justice by bringing to the forefront Linda's experience that in some ways may well mirror theirs. EE should be applauded for not giving us a typical formulaic rape storyline and one that's actually realistic to what actually happens to women who are raped.
It was a good thing soap showed a type of rape that didn't involve screaming, an attack, moody thunder backdrop and someone being arrested, charged, tried and convicted inside 5 weeks.
This was a reflection, probably accurately if conviction rates are anything to go by, as to what happens 99% of the time and Linda's story is probably far more reflective of that of real victims of rape in the country than bombasitc, happy ending 'hollywood' rape storylines that are the norm in film and TV.
As a storyline it should have worked in opening our eyes to the reality of rape, it isn't always an attack in a dark alley by a stranger. It's sad when a soap tries to be true to life and people dismiss it as "poorly done" because it didn't have someone being attacked at gun-point and there wasn't a car chase.
The storyline did a service to women who are raped but never get justice by bringing to the forefront Linda's experience that in some ways may well mirror theirs. EE should be applauded for not giving us a typical formulaic rape storyline and one that's actually realistic to what actually happens to women who are raped.
[quote=seventhwave;79140928]Bearing in mind that I'm a casual viewer and may have missed important stuff:
The worst element of the storyline for me was, as others have put it, Linda being sidelined and treated as an "extra" - because it was done in such a way as to make out that Mick was the one who was really suffering, that her anguish was secondary to his (and that she was obliged to do everything she could to protect him from anything further.) It's like historically, the reason rape was considered a crime was that women were treated as the property of a husband, father, etc. so raping a woman was tantamount to stealing from her "owner." Which is pretty much the impression this storyline gave after Mick found out - that the "real" problem was Dean taking/damaging something that belonged to Mick[/QUOTE]
I got vibes of this.
Not impressed
The worst element of the storyline for me was, as others have put it, Linda being sidelined and treated as an "extra" - because it was done in such a way as to make out that Mick was the one who was really suffering, that her anguish was secondary to his (and that she was obliged to do everything she could to protect him from anything further.) It's like historically, the reason rape was considered a crime was that women were treated as the property of a husband, father, etc. so raping a woman was tantamount to stealing from her "owner." Which is pretty much the impression this storyline gave after Mick found out - that the "real" problem was Dean taking/damaging something that belonged to Mick[/QUOTE]
I got vibes of this.
Not impressed
Originally Posted by Louise_Hart:
“I think it was, Everyone acting totally oblivious to Linda's turmoil afterwards, to being pushed out of her own storylines, to the stupid whos the daddy plot, to Dean being made out to be the victim. Any thoughts??”
“I think it was, Everyone acting totally oblivious to Linda's turmoil afterwards, to being pushed out of her own storylines, to the stupid whos the daddy plot, to Dean being made out to be the victim. Any thoughts??”
In some ways yes, in some ways no.
At first, I think it was done exceptionally well. The gradual way she felt uncomfortable around Dean but persuaded herself it was okay which in turn made him think his touching her bum, kissing her was okay, indeed wanted. The way the rape itself and how she responded was handled was probably the most horribly graphic by inference (it wasn't all shown) and realistic I've seen.
I disagree about nobody noticing. People did. In the following episodes, loads of people commented on her looking i'll, being distracted, vacant, not being herself both to her face and about her. But she'd say she was fine if asked. Again i find that realistic. People around you, even very close can look upset and you can notice it and ask about it but if they say they are okay you leave it. You don't immediately assume they have been raped by a close family member and badger the victim until they tell you.
So, the first few weeks i think were fine. Also, the Police not having enough evidence to prosecute was realistic and a 'lesson' in what not to do for any future rape victims.
It has been the introduction of 'who's the daddy', Dean plus shirley and Buster being so horrilble to Linda with nobody except mick having a problem with them for it and, as you say, Linda being a bit part player in her own story that has sent it down the toilet.
I understand why they did the storyline (with the perpetrator being a family member which raised awareness of this happening) but I think it almost ruined all of the Carters. I don't think it was needed, especially not so early into the Carter timeline on the Square. It didn't help that they had about 6 storylines going on at once.
I suppose what I mean is, too much exposure of the Carters diluted it's impact. It was never about Linda, and it should have been.
I suppose what I mean is, too much exposure of the Carters diluted it's impact. It was never about Linda, and it should have been.
The main thing I hate about it is that there is NO JUSTICE
Soaps are NOT supposed to tackle injustice, they are suppose to tackle issues which actual people have gone through, EastEnders has done Linda's rape appallingly, they've made Dean the victim, not Linda
Soaps are NOT supposed to tackle injustice, they are suppose to tackle issues which actual people have gone through, EastEnders has done Linda's rape appallingly, they've made Dean the victim, not Linda
I didn't really enjoy the plot but if I look at it on neutral ground the only thing that let it down was Who's the Daddy plot. Otherwise it was done realistically.
Yes, I think aspects of the storyline have been horrendous. It's probably tied with John Paul's in Hollyoaks, both have largely been shockingly poor in different ways after a strong start.
I agree. Whatever happened with the police, mud sticks especially when it's something like a sexual offence. People would be wary of him in any case, especially someone like Roxy.
Oh my god, that's horrendous! What the ****?
I take it his family had no idea how incredibly difficult it is to get a conviction for rape, then. If he was convicted I fail to see how there's any way he could be innocent. Unless they knew he wasn't and just didn't care?
Originally Posted by momentarything:
“Totally agree. I think women, especially, would be very wary of him. We haven't seen much of this- I feel like more people would give him a wide berth. I find it a bit hard to believe that Roxy, whose sister was a victim of sexual abuse, would go near Dean, especially when she has a young daughter.
That said, it's sadly realistic in some ways. I know someone who was convicted of rape and when he came out of prison, all his friends rallied round and his girlfriend was still waiting for him. One of his victims had to move down the country because her family's car and house kept getting vandalised.”
“Totally agree. I think women, especially, would be very wary of him. We haven't seen much of this- I feel like more people would give him a wide berth. I find it a bit hard to believe that Roxy, whose sister was a victim of sexual abuse, would go near Dean, especially when she has a young daughter.
That said, it's sadly realistic in some ways. I know someone who was convicted of rape and when he came out of prison, all his friends rallied round and his girlfriend was still waiting for him. One of his victims had to move down the country because her family's car and house kept getting vandalised.”
I agree. Whatever happened with the police, mud sticks especially when it's something like a sexual offence. People would be wary of him in any case, especially someone like Roxy.
Oh my god, that's horrendous! What the ****?
I take it his family had no idea how incredibly difficult it is to get a conviction for rape, then. If he was convicted I fail to see how there's any way he could be innocent. Unless they knew he wasn't and just didn't care?
Originally Posted by seventhwave:
“Bearing in mind that I'm a casual viewer and may have missed important stuff:
The worst element of the storyline for me was, as others have put it, Linda being sidelined and treated as an "extra" - because it was done in such a way as to make out that Mick was the one who was really suffering, that her anguish was secondary to his (and that she was obliged to do everything she could to protect him from anything further.) It's like historically, the reason rape was considered a crime was that women were treated as the property of a husband, father, etc. so raping a woman was tantamount to stealing from her "owner." Which is pretty much the impression this storyline gave after Mick found out - that the "real" problem was Dean taking/damaging something that belonged to Mick”
“Bearing in mind that I'm a casual viewer and may have missed important stuff:
The worst element of the storyline for me was, as others have put it, Linda being sidelined and treated as an "extra" - because it was done in such a way as to make out that Mick was the one who was really suffering, that her anguish was secondary to his (and that she was obliged to do everything she could to protect him from anything further.) It's like historically, the reason rape was considered a crime was that women were treated as the property of a husband, father, etc. so raping a woman was tantamount to stealing from her "owner." Which is pretty much the impression this storyline gave after Mick found out - that the "real" problem was Dean taking/damaging something that belonged to Mick”
Sadly I have to agree.
Originally Posted by Tony_Daniels:
“I dont see what the problem with it was.
It was a good thing soap showed a type of rape that didn't involve screaming, an attack, moody thunder backdrop and someone being arrested, charged, tried and convicted inside 5 weeks.
This was a reflection, probably accurately if conviction rates are anything to go by, as to what happens 99% of the time and Linda's story is probably far more reflective of that of real victims of rape in the country than bombasitc, happy ending 'hollywood' rape storylines that are the norm in film and TV.
As a storyline it should have worked in opening our eyes to the reality of rape, it isn't always an attack in a dark alley by a stranger. It's sad when a soap tries to be true to life and people dismiss it as "poorly done" because it didn't have someone being attacked at gun-point and there wasn't a car chase.
The storyline did a service to women who are raped but never get justice by bringing to the forefront Linda's experience that in some ways may well mirror theirs. EE should be applauded for not giving us a typical formulaic rape storyline and one that's actually realistic to what actually happens to women who are raped.”
“I dont see what the problem with it was.
It was a good thing soap showed a type of rape that didn't involve screaming, an attack, moody thunder backdrop and someone being arrested, charged, tried and convicted inside 5 weeks.
This was a reflection, probably accurately if conviction rates are anything to go by, as to what happens 99% of the time and Linda's story is probably far more reflective of that of real victims of rape in the country than bombasitc, happy ending 'hollywood' rape storylines that are the norm in film and TV.
As a storyline it should have worked in opening our eyes to the reality of rape, it isn't always an attack in a dark alley by a stranger. It's sad when a soap tries to be true to life and people dismiss it as "poorly done" because it didn't have someone being attacked at gun-point and there wasn't a car chase.
The storyline did a service to women who are raped but never get justice by bringing to the forefront Linda's experience that in some ways may well mirror theirs. EE should be applauded for not giving us a typical formulaic rape storyline and one that's actually realistic to what actually happens to women who are raped.”
Except that's not what most people have complained about at all. It's Linda being sidelined, her feelings being secondary to Mick's, Dean being made into a "victim," Shirley's abuse of Linda, Dean deciding he was Ollie's father and harrassing Linda over it etc etc that have been the problem.
Originally Posted by srhgts:
“Yes, I think aspects of the storyline have been horrendous. It's probably tied with John Paul's in Hollyoaks, both have largely been shockingly poor in different ways after a strong start.
I agree. Whatever happened with the police, mud sticks especially when it's something like a sexual offence. People would be wary of him in any case, especially someone like Roxy.”
“Yes, I think aspects of the storyline have been horrendous. It's probably tied with John Paul's in Hollyoaks, both have largely been shockingly poor in different ways after a strong start.
I agree. Whatever happened with the police, mud sticks especially when it's something like a sexual offence. People would be wary of him in any case, especially someone like Roxy.”
Actually, Roxy is probably the one character who wouldn't care at all - remember her reaction when she found out about Archie?
Roxy is a character who if it didn't happen to her, it may as well not have happened at all for all that she cares about it. She's blinkered and selfish to the point of recklessness.
Originally Posted by Louise_Hart:
“I didn't like the way everyone was totally oblivious to the fact she was upset and trumatised. They all just seemed to ignore it and shake it off.”
“I didn't like the way everyone was totally oblivious to the fact she was upset and trumatised. They all just seemed to ignore it and shake it off.”
Do you not recall endless scenes of Mick and Nancy wondering what the hell was up with Linda? They may not have for the root of the problem as quickly as they might have done, but Linda's family certainly knew there was something wrong.
Although there was a bit too much repetition in those first few months, I think the storyline was good right up until January this year; when Linda went to the police. Once Mick started attacking Dean in allotments and pub cellars, that's when it all started to go down the pan.
The problem is that the storyline reached a natural conclusion in January, when Linda reported the rape to the police, and after that they didn't know where to go with it but wanted to keep Dean in the show regardless. The story has been dragged out unnecessarily and has gone in circles for over six months because Dean really should have left the show, and allowed the Carters to move on, but for some reason he's still there.
Also questionable is the way Linda has been sidelined in order to make way for more Shirley/Dean/Mick drama. A story about Linda being raped has become one about Shirley becoming torn between her two sons. The presentation of Deano as a figure of sympathy is also questionable to say the least. People keep saying that the writers are trying to "break down stereotypes" and "show other sides to Dean" but an intelligent viewer should question why they are trying to 'flesh out' Dean's character after he has committed such a heinous crime. Is it to show that, despite being a lying rapist, underneath he's just a nice guy really? The excuses for keeping Deano keep flooding in, but I cannot see any legitimate reason why this character has been allowed to remain on our screens.
Also questionable is the way Linda has been sidelined in order to make way for more Shirley/Dean/Mick drama. A story about Linda being raped has become one about Shirley becoming torn between her two sons. The presentation of Deano as a figure of sympathy is also questionable to say the least. People keep saying that the writers are trying to "break down stereotypes" and "show other sides to Dean" but an intelligent viewer should question why they are trying to 'flesh out' Dean's character after he has committed such a heinous crime. Is it to show that, despite being a lying rapist, underneath he's just a nice guy really? The excuses for keeping Deano keep flooding in, but I cannot see any legitimate reason why this character has been allowed to remain on our screens.
Originally Posted by shrinkingviolet:
“Actually, Roxy is probably the one character who wouldn't care at all - remember her reaction when she found out about Archie?
Roxy is a character who if it didn't happen to her, it may as well not have happened at all for all that she cares about it. She's blinkered and selfish to the point of recklessness.”
“Actually, Roxy is probably the one character who wouldn't care at all - remember her reaction when she found out about Archie?
Roxy is a character who if it didn't happen to her, it may as well not have happened at all for all that she cares about it. She's blinkered and selfish to the point of recklessness.”
Fair point, you're quite right. I meant more because her sister was abused and she has a young daughter, rather than regarding her actual personality. Probably should have been clearer. I guess someone in Roxy's position would be a more accurate phrase.
Not at the start. The fact it has dragged on and became more about Dean/Mick/Shirley than Linda is what has ruined it. Please make it stop!
Also there are moments where you watch Dean in scenes and realise what a mistake it was to make him a rapist. So much potential.
Also there are moments where you watch Dean in scenes and realise what a mistake it was to make him a rapist. So much potential.
For this story to work we shouldn't have been shown the rape. DTC overestimated the audience in that he expected them to be able to comprehend that there was no proof that a rape happened. Trouble is for many of the audience there is as they saw it on their television screens. Ever since they saw the rape all they have been about is Linda getting justice for the rape by Dean. This is a very accurate rape situation and I applaud EE for doing it. So many victims have to continue with their lives with the rapist living close by. It can destroy lives/families with the feeling of impotence in that nothing can be done/proven. If only, it had been spoon fed to the audience in that they did not know in absolute certainty it was rape. The audience had a lingering doubt in their minds. They would more readily be able to understand Shirley.
2 of 3
