The Ratings Thread (Part 65)

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henry_hope

24-10-2015

When a site like Digital Spy announces "big numbers" for a show that is getting under 2 million, that is in the reality of a population of 60million plus.....NOT BIG numbers. In fact, it's a sizeable minority.

We need to keep perspective on these numbers.

Chris1964

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Jay Lee:
“EastEnders was rather good last night. A shame it's not reflected in that figure. Still, at least it means the majority of people on this thread will be kept happy.”

The BBC appears committed to Eastenders long term so to be honest personally Iv largely stood back from commenting on the endless overnights whether they are up/down sideways, not what they should be etc etc. Watching it, the stories are the usual mixture of good bad and ugly. I cant say iv watched it forever but its always lacked a bit of warmth and definitely needs more humour or even just clever engaging writing involving day to day things(which is what Coronation Street traditionally did well most of the time) -there has always been just that bit too much despair and there isn't a character I can think of who hasn't had a bucketful at some time or another which inevitably sticks with them. If something is going well (and done well that can be made popular/feel good), you just know its going to fall apart -grinds you down after a while.

ftv

24-10-2015

There are two episodes of EE out of their usual slots next week (Thursday and Friday). I hope BBC Presentation will actually mention this when promoting them instead of just giving the programme title as they usually do.

Jay Lee

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by ftv:
“There are two episodes of EE out of their usual slots next week (Thursday and Friday). I hope BBC Presentation will actually mention this when promoting them instead of just giving the programme title as they usually do.”

The end board of the Halloween trailer just says "Next week" at the moment, which will probably change to "This week" this weekend. Very helpful for those out of slot episodes which the trailer is promoting. Oh well.

Minute Mart 1

24-10-2015

I agree, the BBC don't help themselves sometimes.

AcerBen

24-10-2015

I continue to be baffled by the X Factor debate. Can someone please give me a sensible reason why ITV would even be considering dropping a show which averages 7-8m and peaks at 8-9m, and gets good demos?

Yes it's an expensive show, but it's still profitable, and surely they'll be able to renew it at a lower price next time round.

Minute Mart 1

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Chris1964:
“I don't see any end to X Factor in the medium term. Its performance is still good enough and given its attachment to BGT I would have thought another contract is virtually signed and sealed. Cowell himself might have made a decision to stop it but clearly that isn't the case. There may have been a case regarding the unknown element of The Voice. Obviously still up in the air with that but if it did come to ITV(that story has gone to ground at the moment) they could have rested XF and run TVUK instead. However why on earth wouldn't you run both and fill three quarters of the year up with big brands! Seems a no brainer to me.”

If itv do get TVUK it will be interesting to see where they would schedule it. If XF and BGT stop in their slots, it can only be shown from January or from June?

cylon6

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Chris1964:
“The BBC appears committed to Eastenders long term so to be honest personally Iv largely stood back from commenting on the endless overnights whether they are up/down sideways, not what they should be etc etc. Watching it, the stories are the usual mixture of good bad and ugly. I cant say iv watched it forever but its always lacked a bit of warmth and definitely needs more humour or even just clever engaging writing involving day to day things(which is what Coronation Street traditionally did well most of the time) -there has always been just that bit too much despair and there isn't a character I can think of who hasn't had a bucketful at some time or another which inevitably sticks with them. If something is going well (and done well that can be made popular), you just know its going to fall apart -grinds you down after a while.”

EastEnders had never had the warmth the way Corrie has (although people forget Corrie started out as a gritty for its time kitchen sink drama), but it has rated better. EastEnders had a period of awful scripts and they lost viewers. And when they had a chance to win them back earlier this year lost them again.

The BBC are committed to EastEnders but if they don't protect it then it just becomes less effective in the schedule.

James J

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Score:
“Some interesting stuff there. He makes a fair point about the consolidated numbers. I think in those the show is down about 6% year on year so far as it has timeshifted a bit more this year than last year. Obviously that isn't idea but it isn't a horrendous result either given that some of the early episodes last year were possibly inflated by Cowell/Cole's initial return. I know he's bigging up his numbers a bit which you'd expect as a producer but he seems to be fully aware of where the overnights are.i think the reference to Strictly being in the sevens is because the interview was held a couple of weeks ago (when he filmed judges houses).

The 2 hour Sunday shows have worked well. 7.8m last week was a decent result with a 45 min Strictly overlap. It averaged 8.6m in the 8pm hour which was actually the same as the year ago episode got (a 1 hour results show).

Interesting to see an acknowledgement that he first week's numbers didn't go down well. I think the Saturday rating was one thing but I think what will have really spooked them was that 6.5m for the first Sunday show. The Sunday ratings have gone up since then though. They've gone: 6.5m, 7.1m, 7.3m, 7.3m, 7.2m, 7.5m, 7.6m, 7.8m. So a good trajectory, particularly given that the last three weeks have had the Strictly overlap. It's all about what they can hold going into the live shows though

What that means in terms of a contract renewal I don't know. There's been a lot of talk about them ending the show next year which given how the numbers have dropped may not be wide of the mark. Equally though, I suspect ITV may have been burnt by the struggles they've had in Q1 since they axed Dancing on Ice and may be reluctant to axe TXF quite as hastily. Particularly as TXF could drop quite a bit lower than DOI and still be sustainable as it gets much better demos.

At this point (obviously this could change based on how the live shows and the early part of next year's run goes) I can see them renewing it. Maybe not on another 3 year deal but I think it'll be back in some form. I think they should probably cut the number of hours it airs for and maybe even cut back to one night but I think it'll still be on air. They should probably push for a better deal but the leverage Syco have is BGT which is obviously still massive. If BGT posts another good run next year then I think ITV's position probably weakens. Equally though if ITV make noises about potentially ending TXF Syco might give it to them cheaper as part of a BGT deal. It's tricky but at this point I don't see them just ending TXF straight away.

Having said that I think tonight could be rough. The first Saturday show in weeks, it's judges houses and it's really long. I don't see it going well. Quite possibly below 7m (inc +1), as much as anything else people might not realise it's even on tonight. Next week with it being Halloween could be really tough as well. These next 2 weeks will probably be the most testing of the rest of this series.”

What a fantastic post Score. I thoroughly enjoyed reading that, some great and informative analysis and a very objective/balanced viewpoint.

Glenn A

24-10-2015

TXF won't go back to the glory days of 2009 and 2010, though the snow will have helped as well, but it still rates in the 7-8 million region and the tabloids are still nice to it. I would think ITV would be best to renew it, but to get a discount on the show.
I don't think ITV will go after TV, as it could be seen as yet another talent show and backfire on them. Also it does have a habit of dipping half way through and hasn't produced the same kind of stars TXF has.

Jay Lee

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Chris1964:
“The BBC appears committed to Eastenders long term so to be honest personally Iv largely stood back from commenting on the endless overnights whether they are up/down sideways, not what they should be etc etc. Watching it, the stories are the usual mixture of good bad and ugly. I cant say iv watched it forever but its always lacked a bit of warmth and definitely needs more humour or even just clever engaging writing involving day to day things(which is what Coronation Street traditionally did well most of the time) -there has always been just that bit too much despair and there isn't a character I can think of who hasn't had a bucketful at some time or another which inevitably sticks with them. If something is going well (and done well that can be made popular/feel good), you just know its going to fall apart -grinds you down after a while.”

EastEnders tried love and warmth under Lorraine Newman - precipitating a drop off in viewing figures. EastEnders' selling point has always been gritty storylines rooted in truth and realism, though it has lost sight of that in recent years in the name of implausible sensationalism. It's the reason why last night's episode, involving a cross-dresser revealing his cross-dressing habits to his wife, and recent episodes such as a character having a stillbirth, are stand out episodes that deserved to rate well: when EastEnders ditches the convoluted sensationalism, it can still manage to tell stories in a raw, sensitive and honest manner.

Minute Mart 1

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Jay Lee:
“EastEnders tried love and warmth under Lorraine Newman - precipita8ting a drop off in viewing figures. EastEnders' selling point has always been gritty storylines rooted in truth and realism, though it has lost sight of that in recent years in the name of implausible sensationalism. It's the reason why last night's episode, involving a cross-dresser revealing himself as a woman to his wife, and recent episodes such as a character having a stillbirth, are stand out episodes that deserved to rate well: when EastEnders ditches the convoluted sensationalism, it can still manage to tell stories in a raw, sensitive and honest manner.”

Two excellent examples. The Shabnam/Kush storyline was gut wrenching and heart breaking.

Chris1964

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Minute Mart 1:
“If itv do get TVUK it will be interesting to see where they would schedule it. If XF and BGT stop in their slots, it can only be shown from January or from June?”

Definitely January onwards, TVUK has been very strong there on BBC1 for two seasons. They would have to accommodate 75 minutes of Ant and Dec at some point but that would be a pleasant problem I would have thought.

The BBC though would have to respond with something a bit grander than gymnastics tournaments or heaven forbid just yet more of the formulaic play dead Lottery/Casualty schedules.

ftv

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Jay Lee:
“EastEnders tried love and warmth under Lorraine Newman - precipitating a drop off in viewing figures. EastEnders' selling point has always been gritty storylines rooted in truth and realism, though it has lost sight of that in recent years in the name of implausible sensationalism. It's the reason why last night's episode, involving a cross-dresser revealing himself as a woman to his wife, and recent episodes such as a character having a stillbirth, are stand out episodes that deserved to rate well: when EastEnders ditches the convoluted sensationalism, it can still manage to tell stories in a raw, sensitive and honest manner.”

He didn't ''reveal himself as a woman'' because physically he wasn't. He revealed himself as someone who likes dressing in women's clothes, not the same thing at all.

inothernews

24-10-2015

The Kennedy's rating, anyone?

I need a good laugh, and I didn't get it from the programme itself.

Jay Lee

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by ftv:
“He didn't ''reveal himself as a woman'' because physically he wasn't. He revealed himself as someone who likes dressing in women's clothes, not the same thing at all.”

Fair enough. Bad choice of phrasing. I hold my hands up.

pjh8

24-10-2015

X Factor's rating will be interesting. It does have a better lead in with The Chase and the post Strictly effect should benefit it. People being accustomed to the Sunday night shows and its colossal 2 hours and 25 minute duration with plenty advertisements will be damaging however.

Glenn A

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Chris1964:
“Definitely January onwards, TVUK has been very strong there on BBC1 for two seasons. They would have to accommodate 75 minutes of Ant and Dec at some point but that would be a pleasant problem I would have thought.

The BBC though would have to respond with something a bit grander than gymnastics tournaments or heaven forbid just yet more of the formulaic play dead Lottery/Casualty schedules.”

Before TV was moved to January- April, BBC One had a disastrous schedule early in 2013 that featured Richard Hammond's Secret Service and Animal Antics which probably helped the fairly dire Splash on ITV achieve double what was expected of it. Moving TV back to January and away from BGT has seen BBC One get a solid hit for three months and the show's big dip in the ratings half way through, caused by BGT, has been less severe. Without TV, we'd probably see a night dominated by useless entertainment formats, Casualty and lottery game shows.

Chris1964

24-10-2015

Im not saying nothing should ever happen, obviously not. Its ridiculous that no-one is allowed to be happy for very long though. The stillbirth storyline is no doubt worthy, well acted and poignant but its also tremendously sad, difficult and wearing to watch someone so distressed plus the potentially destructive repercussions . The narrative of the show constantly seems to edge in varying degrees towards negativity, distress, violence, death, rape etc with very little counterbalance. Obviously that is a personal opinion but it may make me stop watching again-and I doubt Im the only one who has dropped the show because of that over the years.

rzt

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by Score:
“What that means in terms of a contract renewal I don't know. There's been a lot of talk about them ending the show next year which given how the numbers have dropped may not be wide of the mark. Equally though, I suspect ITV may have been burnt by the struggles they've had in Q1 since they axed Dancing on Ice and may be reluctant to axe TXF quite as hastily. Particularly as TXF could drop quite a bit lower than DOI and still be sustainable as it gets much better demos.

At this point (obviously this could change based on how the live shows and the early part of next year's run goes) I can see them renewing it. Maybe not on another 3 year deal but I think it'll be back in some form. I think they should probably cut the number of hours it airs for and maybe even cut back to one night but I think it'll still be on air. They should probably push for a better deal but the leverage Syco have is BGT which is obviously still massive. If BGT posts another good run next year then I think ITV's position probably weakens. Equally though if ITV make noises about potentially ending TXF Syco might give it to them cheaper as part of a BGT deal. It's tricky but at this point I don't see them just ending TXF straight away..”

I agree, I think the DOI experience will play on ITV's minds and they'll renew TXF. At the end of the day, TXF is averaging 7m+ in the overnights over 45 hours. The chances of a new 6 hour entertainment show on ITV getting over 4m+ is slim as it is (based on the last few years only a couple of new shows have done it), let alone trying to replace 45 hours of 7m+ averages! I agree however that they should start reducing the number of hours for TXF in the next contract, perhaps from 45 to 30 hours. Also I think perhaps they need to start moving TXF slightly into less prominent slots, to give other new shows a chance to launch off the back of it: i.e. having TXF at 7-8.30pm on a Saturday, then new show launching at 8.30pm with TXF lead-in away from SCD.. instead of the current situation of TXF being at 8-10pm and the other show being virtually sacrificed and DOA at 7pm against SCD.

As for the next couple of weeks, I agree with you too that it will be quite testing. A 10:20pm finish is very late, and we have seen time and time again from the breakdowns that the audience starts to drop off from 9.15pm onwards. Ironically I think TXF would do just as well 7.30-10pm (with a 40min SCD clash) as 8-10.30pm (with a smaller clash) because it finishes earlier and gives more time for same-day timeshifted viewing. I think on Sundays the 7-9pm XF shows haven't taken a hit even though up against 45mins of SCD due to same-day timeshifting from9pm onwards helping to boost the overnights for XF and reduce the SCD clash impacts on its figures.

NeilVW

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by rzt:
“I think on Sundays the 7-9pm XF shows haven't taken a hit even though up against 45mins of SCD due to same-day timeshifting from9pm onwards helping to boost the overnights for XF and reduce the SCD clash impacts on its figures.”

Although of course with fewer than 30% of timeshifters playing the ads at normal speed, it's not ideal for ITV from a financial perspective. Admittedly some kind of re-jigging was needed becuase of the Rugby World Cup, so they've made the best of the situation probably.

James J

24-10-2015

Be interested how News at Ten on ITV did in the middle of Bond last night

ftv

24-10-2015

Some of these have probably been mentioned before but upcoming drama highlights picked out in today's Express:

London Spy BBC2 November Love story meets espionage Ben Whishaw,Jim Broadbent,Charlotte Rampling, Mark Gatiss
Dickensian BBC1 December 20 half-hour episodes, Stephen Rea,Pauline Collins,Caroline Quentin
The Dresser BBC 2 October 31 Ian McKellen,Sarah Lancashire,Edward Fox
Capital BBC1 November Toby Jones,Lesley Sharp ''Funny and dramatic''
Prey ITV December Philip Glenister as the prison officer in this second series

Glenn A

24-10-2015

Originally Posted by rzt:
“I agree, I think the DOI experience will play on ITV's minds and they'll renew TXF. At the end of the day, TXF is averaging 7m+ in the overnights over 45 hours. The chances of a new 6 hour entertainment show on ITV getting over 4m+ is slim as it is (based on the last few years only a couple of new shows have done it), let alone trying to replace 45 hours of 7m+ averages! I agree however that they should start reducing the number of hours for TXF in the next contract, perhaps from 45 to 30 hours. Also I think perhaps they need to start moving TXF slightly into less prominent slots, to give other new shows a chance to launch off the back of it: i.e. having TXF at 7-8.30pm on a Saturday, then new show launching at 8.30pm with TXF lead-in away from SCD.. instead of the current situation of TXF being at 8-10pm and the other show being virtually sacrificed and DOA at 7pm against SCD.

As for the next couple of weeks, I agree with you too that it will be quite testing. A 10:20pm finish is very late, and we have seen time and time again from the breakdowns that the audience starts to drop off from 9.15pm onwards. Ironically I think TXF would do just as well 7.30-10pm (with a 40min SCD clash) as 8-10.30pm (with a smaller clash) because it finishes earlier and gives more time for same-day timeshifted viewing. I think on Sundays the 7-9pm XF shows haven't taken a hit even though up against 45mins of SCD due to same-day timeshifting from9pm onwards helping to boost the overnights for XF and reduce the SCD clash impacts on its figures.”

I think ITV will keep TXF, but maybe pay less for it and cut it down. It still does well for them and they've had so many new entertainment shows fail this year, something that is guaranteed at least 7 million viewers and still has a healthy following should stay.
DOI went because it was very expensive and was shedding viewers heavily. Its last series attracted under 5 million viewers and was being heavily beaten by BBC One, something TXF has to worry less about as quite often it has to face lottery game shows and Casualty. I doubt ITV will bring this back.

Dan R

24-10-2015

Any figures for Russell Howard?

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