Vodafone and Three to get L Band Spectrum

M1kos · 26-08-2015, 14:39

http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/2015/...ms-uk-spectrum

carcass · 26-08-2015, 15:23

“Over time, Vodafone intends to combine its newly purchased spectrum with 800 MHz using a new technology called 4G+, and also referred to as Carrier Aggregation, to deliver theoretical peak download speeds of up to three times faster than standard 4G.”

Stereo Steve · 26-08-2015, 20:27

What does this all mean in layman's terms please?

interactiv-uk · 26-08-2015, 20:37

Hutchison Whampoa? That company ceased to exist several months ago. Good to see Mobile News has its finger on the pulse of the industry!!

lightspeed2398 · 26-08-2015, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Steve

What does this all mean in layman's terms please?

Vodafone & Three have bought some network spectrum which can be used on supported phones (none are on the market yet) to supplement the existing network to provide extra capacity and speed I presume that because they've both got 20MHz each that would be the equivalent of a peak speed of 150Mbps alone and with the 10MHz of spectrum that Three & Vodafone are currently using 225Mbps peak (with the extra spectrum that Three get in September the maximum speed would be about 262Mbps I think).

This spectrum can only be used on the downlink side of things so it can't be used alone.

japaul · 26-08-2015, 20:50

Of course this news shouldn't be a surprise to DS members

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...=#post79258516

Stereo Steve · 26-08-2015, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

Vodafone & Three have bought some network spectrum which can be used on supported phones (none are on the market yet) to supplement the existing network to provide extra capacity and speed I presume that because they've both got 20MHz each that would be the equivalent of a peak speed of 150Mbps alone and with the 10MHz of spectrum that Three & Vodafone are currently using 225Mbps peak (with the extra spectrum that Three get in September the maximum speed would be about 262Mbps I think).

This spectrum can only be used on the downlink side of things so it can't be used alone.

A bit more digging shows this to be 1452-1492MHz. Sounds like a handy rural frequency to back up 800.

lightspeed2398 · 26-08-2015, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by japaul

Of course this news shouldn't be a surprise to DS members

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...=#post79258516

Thanks once again for your early information japaul

.

japaul · 26-08-2015, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Steve

What does this all mean in layman's terms please?

A whacking great profit for Qualcomm.

Bought in an Ofcom auction by Qualcomm in 2008 for ~£8 million who did absolutely nothing with it and although nobody is saying exactly what it was sold for most "insiders" are saying close to £200 million.

Part of Ofcom's remit is to 'secure the optimal use of radio spectrum.' Well it's certainly optimal for Qualcomm!

lightspeed2398 · 26-08-2015, 21:22

I think it said in the article that Ofcom still needs to give clearance for this sale. Any idea if they'll just green light it through or will they be concerned?

jabbamk1 · 26-08-2015, 21:29

This is band 32 right?

Going to be a while before we see this get used.

japaul · 26-08-2015, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

I think it said in the article that Ofcom still needs to give clearance for this sale. Any idea if they'll just green light it through or will they be concerned?

Should be rubber stamped. The mechanics of any transfer involve applying to Ofcom as they assign licences so they need to vary or revoke the existing one. They can block it if say it raised competition concerns. National security is also another one they could try!

However, I'm not sure embarrassment is good enough grounds to block it!

enapace · 27-08-2015, 00:25

Wonder if the 2300MHz auction will draw much interest from three now they have obtained this,

Carl_Boys · 27-08-2015, 01:05

Asked this before but as the three and O2 merger going on and the 2g frequency is there anywY ofcom would allow three to reuse there 2100 frequency for LTE? Also is that a no ad that's the MBNL frequency?

GreenLantern · 27-08-2015, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

Vodafone & Three have bought some network spectrum which can be used on supported phones (none are on the market yet) to supplement the existing network to provide extra capacity and speed I presume that because they've both got 20MHz each that would be the equivalent of a peak speed of 150Mbps alone and with the 10MHz of spectrum that Three & Vodafone are currently using 225Mbps peak (with the extra spectrum that Three get in September the maximum speed would be about 262Mbps I think).

This spectrum can only be used on the downlink side of things so it can't be used alone.

Aren't Vodafone using 40mhz ?

20mhz / 800 & 20mhz / 2600 ?

( know they've got 40mhz in 2600 but heard they were only using 20 of it ?)

(also haven't they got 25mhz of unpaired / 2600)

iampaulxo · 27-08-2015, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Aren't Vodafone using 40mhz ?

20mhz / 800 & 20mhz / 2600 ?

( know they've got 40mhz in 2600 but heard they were only using 20 of it ?)

(also haven't they got 25mhz of unpaired / 2600)

Vodafone's 4G spectrum holdings are:

2x10MHz of 800MHz
2x20MHz of 2600MHz (FDD)
2X20MHz of 2600MHz (TDD) (unpaired)
1x20MHz of 1500MHz (Downlink only with CA)
Can't be used on its own as many of us have learnt.

de525ma · 30-08-2015, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl_Boys

Asked this before but as the three and O2 merger going on and the 2g frequency is there anywY ofcom would allow three to reuse there 2100 frequency for LTE? Also is that a no ad that's the MBNL frequency?

When asking questions it's best to phrase them properly so that their meaning can be understood by others.

The first part - with a precedent being set by EE reusing their 2G frequencies for 4G, it is feasible that 3G spectrum could be used for 4G in the future. Note that 2100MHz travels less far than the frequencies used by the networks for their main 4G roll-out.

As for your second question, I can't work out what you're asking. Sorry.

Denco1 · 30-08-2015, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl_Boys

Asked this before but as the three and O2 merger going on and the 2g frequency is there anywY ofcom would allow three to reuse there 2100 frequency for LTE? Also is that a no ad that's the MBNL frequency?

It isn't MBNL frequency, the RAN is shared like the 3G base stations but Three and EE own different parts of the 3G frequency, so in theory if Three wanted to they could reuse some or all of there 2x15MHz of 3G, or reuse some or all of O2s 2x10MHz of 3G.

Denco1 · 30-08-2015, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by iampaulxo

Vodafone's 4G spectrum holdings are:

2x10MHz of 800MHz
2x20MHz of 2600MHz (FDD)
2X20MHz of 2600MHz (TDD) (unpaired)
1x20MHz of 1500MHz (Downlink only with CA)
Can't be used on its own as many of us have learnt.

I think Vodafone have 25MHz of TDD spectrum, and as this is unpaired it is just 1x25MHz of 2600MHz as opposed to 2x25MHz of 2600MHz.

iampaulxo · 30-08-2015, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denco1

I think Vodafone have 25MHz of TDD spectrum, and as this is unpaired it is just 1x25MHz of 2600MHz as opposed to 2x25MHz of 2600MHz.

Yeah my bad, think I've been misunderstood by the meaning of unpaired properly, I thought it meant unpaired from the FDD 2600MHz, but yeah it makes better sense now.

Yes you are right, had a little look on the net to confirm they do indeed have 25MHz with BT holding the other 20MHz.

Looks like I have been pretty deluded with my assumptions for quite some time over this. Don't know how I got this wrong all along haha.

iampaulxo · 30-08-2015, 12:22

EDIT to my earlier post to make things clear. VF's current spectrum holdings are:

2x10MHz of 800MHz
2x20MHz of 2600MHz (FDD)
1X25MHz of 2600MHz (TDD) (unpaired)
1x20MHz of 1500MHz (Downlink only with CA)

Mass Corona · 30-08-2015, 12:47

Right so I need to get a new phone as my current one doesn't 800mhz and then go out and get another one when the bring in VoLTE and then back to the shops when then do this L band thing.

Thanks Three!

Denco1 · 30-08-2015, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by iampaulxo

Yeah my bad, think I've been misunderstood by the meaning of unpaired properly, I thought it meant unpaired from the FDD 2600MHz, but yeah it makes better sense now.

Yes you are right, had a little look on the net to confirm they do indeed have 25MHz with BT holding the other 20MHz.

Looks like I have been pretty deluded with my assumptions for quite some time over this. Don't know how I got this wrong all along haha.

Don't worry about it, we've all been there, technology can get pretty confusing

Paired spectrum means that downlink spectrum is paired with uplink spectrum, so the phone can both download and upload at the same time using different parts of spectrum. This is called FDD (frequency division duplex)

Unpaired spectrum means the downlink and uplink share the same spectrum, so the network can configure the time slots to say make 5 out of 7 time slots downlink, and 2 out of 7 uplink. This gives slower downlink speeds but allows for more capacity to be allocated for uplink. This is called TDD (time division duplex)

I'm sure someone will be along to correct any mistakes if I've made them.

Denco1 · 30-08-2015, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mass Corona

Right so I need to get a new phone as my current one doesn't 800mhz and then go out and get another one when the bring in VoLTE and then back to the shops when then do this L band thing.

Thanks Three!

Well it was always very likely all the networks would use 800MHz in some form to build out there networks.

As for VoLTE yes it is difficult to know what handsets will support it on Three, but this is the case for every network not just Three making things difficult, although it would be helpful if they would begin labeling phones as VoLTE ready like they did 4G ready.

Band L isn't currently used anywhere and won't be for a while longer. It also won't be deployed all over the place. If you dislike Three using new spectrum then we wouldn't have any 4G at all.

iampaulxo · 30-08-2015, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denco1

Don't worry about it, we've all been there, technology can get pretty confusing

Paired spectrum means that downlink spectrum is paired with uplink spectrum, so the phone can both download and upload at the same time using different parts of spectrum. This is called FDD (frequency division duplex)

Unpaired spectrum means the downlink and uplink share the same spectrum, so the network can configure the time slots to say make 5 out of 7 time slots downlink, and 2 out of 7 uplink. This gives slower downlink speeds but allows for more capacity to be allocated for uplink. This is called TDD (time division duplex)

I'm sure someone will be along to correct any mistakes if I've made them.

Okay just a little confused one part, this could either be clarification for me or the fact I could just be correcting you a little.

When you said in the example with 7 slots for TDD and 5 being used for Downlink and 2 being used for Uplink, wouldn't having 5/7 slots for Downlink create more speed then? Because Uplink is only 2/7?

I'm just going off common knowledge where more slots equal more speed but I could be totally wrong here. Correct me if I'm wrong.

26-08-2015, 14:39	#1
M1kos Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 499	Vodafone and Three to get L Band Spectrum http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/2015/...ms-uk-spectrum

26-08-2015, 15:23	#2
carcass Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 102	“Over time, Vodafone intends to combine its newly purchased spectrum with 800 MHz using a new technology called 4G+, and also referred to as Carrier Aggregation, to deliver theoretical peak download speeds of up to three times faster than standard 4G.”

26-08-2015, 20:27	#3
Stereo Steve Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,378	What does this all mean in layman's terms please?

26-08-2015, 20:37	#4
interactiv-uk Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 587	Hutchison Whampoa? That company ceased to exist several months ago. Good to see Mobile News has its finger on the pulse of the industry!!

26-08-2015, 20:41	#5
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by Stereo Steve What does this all mean in layman's terms please? Vodafone & Three have bought some network spectrum which can be used on supported phones (none are on the market yet) to supplement the existing network to provide extra capacity and speed I presume that because they've both got 20MHz each that would be the equivalent of a peak speed of 150Mbps alone and with the 10MHz of spectrum that Three & Vodafone are currently using 225Mbps peak (with the extra spectrum that Three get in September the maximum speed would be about 262Mbps I think). This spectrum can only be used on the downlink side of things so it can't be used alone.

26-08-2015, 20:50	#6
japaul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,662	Of course this news shouldn't be a surprise to DS members http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...=#post79258516

26-08-2015, 20:55	#7
Stereo Steve Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,378	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 Vodafone & Three have bought some network spectrum which can be used on supported phones (none are on the market yet) to supplement the existing network to provide extra capacity and speed I presume that because they've both got 20MHz each that would be the equivalent of a peak speed of 150Mbps alone and with the 10MHz of spectrum that Three & Vodafone are currently using 225Mbps peak (with the extra spectrum that Three get in September the maximum speed would be about 262Mbps I think). This spectrum can only be used on the downlink side of things so it can't be used alone. A bit more digging shows this to be 1452-1492MHz. Sounds like a handy rural frequency to back up 800.

26-08-2015, 20:57	#8
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by japaul Of course this news shouldn't be a surprise to DS members http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...=#post79258516 Thanks once again for your early information japaul .

26-08-2015, 21:03	#9
japaul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,662	Quote: Originally Posted by Stereo Steve What does this all mean in layman's terms please? A whacking great profit for Qualcomm. Bought in an Ofcom auction by Qualcomm in 2008 for ~£8 million who did absolutely nothing with it and although nobody is saying exactly what it was sold for most "insiders" are saying close to £200 million. Part of Ofcom's remit is to 'secure the optimal use of radio spectrum.' Well it's certainly optimal for Qualcomm!

26-08-2015, 21:22	#10
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	I think it said in the article that Ofcom still needs to give clearance for this sale. Any idea if they'll just green light it through or will they be concerned?

26-08-2015, 21:29	#11
jabbamk1 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,759	This is band 32 right? Going to be a while before we see this get used.

26-08-2015, 21:39	#12
japaul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,662	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 I think it said in the article that Ofcom still needs to give clearance for this sale. Any idea if they'll just green light it through or will they be concerned? Should be rubber stamped. The mechanics of any transfer involve applying to Ofcom as they assign licences so they need to vary or revoke the existing one. They can block it if say it raised competition concerns. National security is also another one they could try! However, I'm not sure embarrassment is good enough grounds to block it!

27-08-2015, 00:25	#13
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Wonder if the 2300MHz auction will draw much interest from three now they have obtained this,

27-08-2015, 01:05	#14
Carl_Boys Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 164	Asked this before but as the three and O2 merger going on and the 2g frequency is there anywY ofcom would allow three to reuse there 2100 frequency for LTE? Also is that a no ad that's the MBNL frequency?

27-08-2015, 01:18	#15
GreenLantern Inactive Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 178	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 Vodafone & Three have bought some network spectrum which can be used on supported phones (none are on the market yet) to supplement the existing network to provide extra capacity and speed I presume that because they've both got 20MHz each that would be the equivalent of a peak speed of 150Mbps alone and with the 10MHz of spectrum that Three & Vodafone are currently using 225Mbps peak (with the extra spectrum that Three get in September the maximum speed would be about 262Mbps I think). This spectrum can only be used on the downlink side of things so it can't be used alone. Aren't Vodafone using 40mhz ? 20mhz / 800 & 20mhz / 2600 ? ( know they've got 40mhz in 2600 but heard they were only using 20 of it ?) (also haven't they got 25mhz of unpaired / 2600)

27-08-2015, 08:03	#16
iampaulxo Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 94	Quote: Originally Posted by GreenLantern Aren't Vodafone using 40mhz ? 20mhz / 800 & 20mhz / 2600 ? ( know they've got 40mhz in 2600 but heard they were only using 20 of it ?) (also haven't they got 25mhz of unpaired / 2600) Vodafone's 4G spectrum holdings are: 2x10MHz of 800MHz 2x20MHz of 2600MHz (FDD) 2X20MHz of 2600MHz (TDD) (unpaired) 1x20MHz of 1500MHz (Downlink only with CA) Can't be used on its own as many of us have learnt.

30-08-2015, 10:02	#17
de525ma Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Portsmouth Posts: 787	Quote: Originally Posted by Carl_Boys Asked this before but as the three and O2 merger going on and the 2g frequency is there anywY ofcom would allow three to reuse there 2100 frequency for LTE? Also is that a no ad that's the MBNL frequency? When asking questions it's best to phrase them properly so that their meaning can be understood by others. The first part - with a precedent being set by EE reusing their 2G frequencies for 4G, it is feasible that 3G spectrum could be used for 4G in the future. Note that 2100MHz travels less far than the frequencies used by the networks for their main 4G roll-out. As for your second question, I can't work out what you're asking. Sorry.

30-08-2015, 10:10	#18
Denco1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 983	Quote: Originally Posted by Carl_Boys Asked this before but as the three and O2 merger going on and the 2g frequency is there anywY ofcom would allow three to reuse there 2100 frequency for LTE? Also is that a no ad that's the MBNL frequency? It isn't MBNL frequency, the RAN is shared like the 3G base stations but Three and EE own different parts of the 3G frequency, so in theory if Three wanted to they could reuse some or all of there 2x15MHz of 3G, or reuse some or all of O2s 2x10MHz of 3G.

30-08-2015, 10:13	#19
Denco1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 983	Quote: Originally Posted by iampaulxo Vodafone's 4G spectrum holdings are: 2x10MHz of 800MHz 2x20MHz of 2600MHz (FDD) 2X20MHz of 2600MHz (TDD) (unpaired) 1x20MHz of 1500MHz (Downlink only with CA) Can't be used on its own as many of us have learnt. I think Vodafone have 25MHz of TDD spectrum, and as this is unpaired it is just 1x25MHz of 2600MHz as opposed to 2x25MHz of 2600MHz.

30-08-2015, 12:17	#20
iampaulxo Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 94	Quote: Originally Posted by Denco1 I think Vodafone have 25MHz of TDD spectrum, and as this is unpaired it is just 1x25MHz of 2600MHz as opposed to 2x25MHz of 2600MHz. Yeah my bad, think I've been misunderstood by the meaning of unpaired properly, I thought it meant unpaired from the FDD 2600MHz, but yeah it makes better sense now. Yes you are right, had a little look on the net to confirm they do indeed have 25MHz with BT holding the other 20MHz. Looks like I have been pretty deluded with my assumptions for quite some time over this. Don't know how I got this wrong all along haha.

30-08-2015, 12:22	#21
iampaulxo Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 94	EDIT to my earlier post to make things clear. VF's current spectrum holdings are: 2x10MHz of 800MHz 2x20MHz of 2600MHz (FDD) 1X25MHz of 2600MHz (TDD) (unpaired) 1x20MHz of 1500MHz (Downlink only with CA)

DS Forums

Vodafone and Three to get L Band Spectrum

30-08-2015, 12:47	#22
Mass Corona Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 713	Right so I need to get a new phone as my current one doesn't 800mhz and then go out and get another one when the bring in VoLTE and then back to the shops when then do this L band thing. Thanks Three!

30-08-2015, 13:34	#23
Denco1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 983	Quote: Originally Posted by iampaulxo Yeah my bad, think I've been misunderstood by the meaning of unpaired properly, I thought it meant unpaired from the FDD 2600MHz, but yeah it makes better sense now. Yes you are right, had a little look on the net to confirm they do indeed have 25MHz with BT holding the other 20MHz. Looks like I have been pretty deluded with my assumptions for quite some time over this. Don't know how I got this wrong all along haha. Don't worry about it, we've all been there, technology can get pretty confusing Paired spectrum means that downlink spectrum is paired with uplink spectrum, so the phone can both download and upload at the same time using different parts of spectrum. This is called FDD (frequency division duplex) Unpaired spectrum means the downlink and uplink share the same spectrum, so the network can configure the time slots to say make 5 out of 7 time slots downlink, and 2 out of 7 uplink. This gives slower downlink speeds but allows for more capacity to be allocated for uplink. This is called TDD (time division duplex) I'm sure someone will be along to correct any mistakes if I've made them.

30-08-2015, 13:39	#24
Denco1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 983	Quote: Originally Posted by Mass Corona Right so I need to get a new phone as my current one doesn't 800mhz and then go out and get another one when the bring in VoLTE and then back to the shops when then do this L band thing. Thanks Three! Well it was always very likely all the networks would use 800MHz in some form to build out there networks. As for VoLTE yes it is difficult to know what handsets will support it on Three, but this is the case for every network not just Three making things difficult, although it would be helpful if they would begin labeling phones as VoLTE ready like they did 4G ready. Band L isn't currently used anywhere and won't be for a while longer. It also won't be deployed all over the place. If you dislike Three using new spectrum then we wouldn't have any 4G at all.

30-08-2015, 14:09	#25
iampaulxo Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 94	Quote: Originally Posted by Denco1 Don't worry about it, we've all been there, technology can get pretty confusing Paired spectrum means that downlink spectrum is paired with uplink spectrum, so the phone can both download and upload at the same time using different parts of spectrum. This is called FDD (frequency division duplex) Unpaired spectrum means the downlink and uplink share the same spectrum, so the network can configure the time slots to say make 5 out of 7 time slots downlink, and 2 out of 7 uplink. This gives slower downlink speeds but allows for more capacity to be allocated for uplink. This is called TDD (time division duplex) I'm sure someone will be along to correct any mistakes if I've made them. Okay just a little confused one part, this could either be clarification for me or the fact I could just be correcting you a little. When you said in the example with 7 slots for TDD and 5 being used for Downlink and 2 being used for Uplink, wouldn't having 5/7 slots for Downlink create more speed then? Because Uplink is only 2/7? I'm just going off common knowledge where more slots equal more speed but I could be totally wrong here. Correct me if I'm wrong.