Sony HTK475

DannyB · 01-04-2002, 19:50

Hi everyone, I wonder if you can give me some advice. Im looking to buy an Amp so that I can recieve sound in Dolby Digital and DTS. I went into the Sony Centre and they showed me an Amp and speaker package of model number HTK475. They gave me a quick demo and I was quite impressed, although it is difficult to guage quality in a small show room. The price of this package is £399. I was wondering if anyone had this amp and speaker package and could tell me what the quality is like and also if they have had any problems. Im willing to spend more if the quality from this amp isnt sufficiently better than my Tv with Dolby Surround can currently provide. Is the Amp easy to connect up to everything because im pretty inexperienced on this front and Sony said they will send an engineer to do it for £15.00. Also, will I have to buy any extra leads to connect my DVD player, VCR and Playstation 2 to the amp. I ask this because there is nothing worse than getting the equipment home then finding out you need a spare cable etc.

This may sound like a silly question but how is your amp connected to the TV. My TV make is a Sony KV28 DS20. I know that the DVD is connected to the amp via optical leads. How are the normal TV signals sent to the amp??

On a different subject I was wondering whether anyone else has had the following problem. In all my manuals it says that the best way to connect equipment to the TV for quality purposes is through the S Video In port on the TV. I have located this port and it is in a panel on the front of my TV. Does this mean that I have to leave the panel open and have leads draping across the front of my TV. It all seems a bit silly to me because my TV is only a year and a half old and you would have thought Sony would have had the foresight to put connections on the back and out of sight. If anyone has this same problem or im looking in the wrong place please let me know. Im currently connecting thisngs by Scart instead. Do connections through the S ports really have a lot better quality??

Thanks for your help!

MrAnarchy · 02-04-2002, 14:31

Hello DannyB,
The HTk475 is being made replaced now.It is being replaced with the STR485 receiver and I presume the speakers will be modified slightly from the Save225 ( at present)
The STR475 receiver is very good and received a 4 star review in 'What Video and TV' last month.
Fantastic value and 400w of power.
I have been looking at this product for a long time but may now hold off until the STR485 is launched next month.You can pre-order it on www.unbeatable.co.uk for 160 pounds which is unbelievable value.
This new model uses a 32 bit decoder instead of 24 bit and I think it has Prologic 2 decoding capabilities which is a big advantage.
You can get the save 325 speakers which is a step up from those of the HTK475 pack for 129.99 at www.unbeatable.co.uk.
These are excellent value and much better than the Save 225.
Alltogether you can get these 2 items for under 300 pounds.
Great value.I am getting this as soon as it launches.
You can get very detailed information on the STR475 and the Save325 speakers at www.Crutchfield.com.It is an american site but all the info is accurate for Europe.It is a very good site.
The system is very easy to setup.Just connect either a coaxial or optical connector from your dvd player to the amp and you are away for digital sound.
Normal tv signals are connected via the 2 stereo connectors ( Left and right )on your tv or SKY box.
The Sony amp has connections for a CD player ,Minidisc etc.
The amp can decode Prologic signals from a stereo Dolby surround source giving you 2 front stereo signals , a matrixed centre and 2 mono matrixed rear signals.
Prologic 2 has the advantage in that the rear signals are stereo and it also provides a subwoofer channel.
You can also spice up normal stereo with the DSP's.
Scart connections are better than S-Video
I have a Sony TV and I use Scart connections .Stay with the Scart.
Hope I 've helped.

wicket · 02-04-2002, 17:15

Just another point to add check that you can connect your dvd player to the amp you probably can but I know some people have bought an amp only to discover it has no coaxial input which is the only output their dvd player has. You will need at least one optical input if you are connecting your PS2 to it.

DannyB · 02-04-2002, 20:03

Hi, Thanks a lot for your reply, it was very helpful, although now im wondering whether to wait for the 485 amp or to go for the 475 lol, do you have any idea when its due out next month?

The DVD player I have is the DVP-S536 and I have checked and it has a coaxial and a optical input so I assume that everything will be ok.

I just have a couple of questions for you. The first is regarding the TV connection. By connecting the left and right stereo connections on the TV to those on the amp will the amp convert the signal to Dolby Prologic and send the signal to the speakers which are connected to the amp. I ask this because at the moment I have a pro logic TV and if I only connect up the left and right stereo sockets on the TV then does this leave the other ones on my TV redundant? (Hope that makes sense)

My second question is regarding Pro Logic 2 which you mentioned. Does the amp convert normal pro logic signals into pro logic 2 or do the programmes have to be filmed in pro logic 2 for the sound to be accessed?

By the way do all the leads I need for connecting my VCR, DVD etc come supplied with the amp or will I need to buy extra?

Thank you for all your help before and if you could answer the above it would greatly help my purchase decision.

MrAnarchy · 03-04-2002, 10:32

Quote:

By connecting the left and right stereo connections on the TV to those on the amp will the amp convert the signal to Dolby Prologic and send the signal to the speakers which are connected to the amp

Any Dolby Digital Amp will be backwards compatible in that it will provide Dolby Prologic 1 Decoding.
I see what you mean about the Left and Right on the TV.I am not sure if your tv has split the signal already so you may only be feeding part of it to the amp.You can alternatively feed all 5 inputs into the AMPs 5.1 input.A bit messy though.
Prologic 2 will work on any Dolby surround sound source.All the same programmes as Pro Logic 1.
You mightnt need an amp after all.
I think your DVD player has a 5.1 output.i.e a built in Dolby Digital decoder.
All you basically need is a set of amplified speakers and you can connect these up to your dvd player ,then use your tv for Prologic.
The speakers may cost you only 100 pounds or less all depending on the wattage.Only drawback is that you will have alot of speakers !

MrAnarchy · 03-04-2002, 10:37

Forgot to say that you wont get any connectors with the Amp.
With the Sony speakers you will get sufficient speaker wire for all the speakers.
I think that when a 2 channel stereo signal is converted to Pro Logic the 2 front will probably be the same as Left and Right before conversion.
The extra channels are matrixed from these 2.Centre and mono rear.
Hope this helps.

pjl · 03-04-2002, 21:12

If you're looking for more of a Home Theatre setup, but want to remain with Sony (which is a good choice), why not take a look at their excellent DAV-S800 system?

If you're definately after a stand-alone amp - the 475 is a great choice, as is the 1020 (or is it the 1070? - I can't remember offhand). Then add some Pascal speakers and you're laughing!

DannyB · 04-04-2002, 01:29

Considering I already have a DVD player (Sony DVPS536) would it really be worth going for for the DAP-S800. How much does that system cost and is the sound comparable in quality to that of a stand a lone digital amp i.e S475.

If I went for the DAP-S800 can you connect everything up to it so all signals go through the amp i.e VCR, Playstation and TV signal?

What im basically looking for is an amp and some speakers that convert my DVD audio into Dolby Digital and DTS, and I also want my TV signal to sound better and also the sound from my VCR. My dad reckons its a waste of money and is trying to stop me getting one. Thats why im really looking for a system that will stop him in his tracks and believe I made the right the right choice lol, Im willing to spend around £500 max or perhaps wait for the S485 amp which has pro logic2.

What do you guys think?

pjl · 04-04-2002, 09:23

Well if you already have a 536, shelling out the best part of £800 on the DAV-S800 could well be un-necessary.

For my setup, I've just purchased a JVC TH-A5 Home Theatre kit. Although a seperate amp and DVD would have given better results, for bedroom use and on a budget I'm sure you'll agree I've made a good buy - excellent sound from the system.

Pro Logic 2 is something I can live without, but its all to do with personal choice I suppose - if you want it, wait for the Sony 485. Their current amps, however, are excellent.

wicket · 04-04-2002, 09:30

Dan, persist in your desire to get an amp you will never regret it. Your Dad just doesn't know what he is missing by listening just to the sound produced by the tv. I would say buy a separate amp rather than an integrated system. You have an good dvd player so it is pointless buying an integrated one.

The thing about these Sony integrated systems I particularly don't like is that they only output s-video which usually means connecting wires to the front of your tv all of the time. I prefer a RGB scart connection myself.

I think if you could get an amp with Dolby Prologic II that would be a plus but not an necessity. Basically you want an amp to output Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS as a minimum. If you want to future proof yourself buy an amp with 6.1 sound but this will probably be out of your price range but again this is a plus and not a necessity. If in the future all dvds are 6.1 they will stay play 5.1 sound on your amp.

(Hi pjl, you are in the same neck of the woods as me)

iain · 04-04-2002, 10:17

Does anyone have their Pascal speakers? Any thoughts? I currently have a 28" w/s wega tv and 735 dvd player, and hopefully this year will finally get a new amp and speakers.

The amp being the STRDB 1070, but, even tho' I like the look of the pascals, and everything would be matching Sony - however I have read some less than flattering reports.

Also the new LISSA speakers, bit more expensive, but any recommendations?

Cheers,
Iain

pjl · 04-04-2002, 11:13

Quote:

Originally posted by iain
Does anyone have their Pascal speakers? Any thoughts? I currently have a 28" w/s wega tv and 735 dvd player, and hopefully this year will finally get a new amp and speakers.

The amp being the STRDB 1070, but, even tho' I like the look of the pascals, and everything would be matching Sony - however I have read some less than flattering reports.

Cheers,
Iain

The Pascal's (model 520 I think?) combined with that 1070 amp is an excellent choice - at work we've got it hooked up with a 36" DS70, and it's the business!

Spooky · 04-04-2002, 19:42

I had a set of Pascal 705 Speakers and found them OK for home cinema, but not brill, and poor for normal CD audio.
They do tend to be very "trebley" and lack mid range and the sub was just plain nasty.
Also I have demo'd a Sony 1070 amp and found it a bit too bright for my taste
HTH
Spooks

iain · 05-04-2002, 09:06

Thanks for the comments there - as ever the jury seems to be out on these Pascals - I guess if I ever do find myself with a grand to spare I'll need to go and have a listen before I buy!

Will probably still go for the 1070 amp tho - generally excellent reviews and looks great. But then I've wanted one since it was the 940, and before that the 930.....if only I hadn't bought that darned tv and dvd player I'd be able to afford it

Iain

Spooky · 05-04-2002, 20:18

I know 2 people that have this amp and think its great, having said that they have never said if it decodes EX and ES titles or not.
I still have an old sony 830 so I cant really criticise any amp to be honest

I have found the Onkyo and Denon amps to be very good but they are a fair bit more expensive, but its just a matter of preferance really when it comes to amps.
Have fun demo'ing amps....... I know I enjoy it
Laters
Spooks

iain · 05-04-2002, 21:26

I think I'd gladly swap my Sony STR-D515 (complete with, I've always presumed, bottom of the range speakers!) for an 830.

I'm fairly confident, despite their disputed reputation, the pascals will sound the business in my front room.

I hope

Although I'm quite taken by the new LA speakers - and they come in purple, so would fit in with the decour....

Iain

MrAnarchy · 10-04-2002, 09:27

Looking at www.Crutchfield.com it seems that the STR-485 doesnt have Prologic 2 capabilities which is a major disappointment.
Just confirms my belief that 90% of salespeople will tell you anything to make a sell.

MrAnarchy · 12-04-2002, 09:47

I was in one of my local stores yesterday and I had a look at the new Sony brochure.
The Str475 has been replace with the STR-485 which is a slight makeover .No Prologic 2.
They have introduced a new receiver STR585 which has 100w per channel and Prologic 2.
This is a sexy beast and I think is much better value at only 30 pounds more than the 485.
The HTK475 has been replaced by the HTD-DW740 which incorporates the Str485 and a new set of speakers.
This kit was previously on sale in the US as the HTD-DW730 for $299. 50% more here.
There is also a HTD-DW840 which has the STR585 plus a set of speakers.
I am now going to go for the STR585 receiver and pair this with the Save325 speakers as they are better spec and look better than those of the HTD-DW840.Also save myself 100 pounds.
There is a replacement for the HTK215 planned for August.Looks fantastic and is really compact.Same price at Unbeatable as the 215 !

01-04-2002, 19:50	#1
DannyB Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 62	Sony HTK475 Hi everyone, I wonder if you can give me some advice. Im looking to buy an Amp so that I can recieve sound in Dolby Digital and DTS. I went into the Sony Centre and they showed me an Amp and speaker package of model number HTK475. They gave me a quick demo and I was quite impressed, although it is difficult to guage quality in a small show room. The price of this package is £399. I was wondering if anyone had this amp and speaker package and could tell me what the quality is like and also if they have had any problems. Im willing to spend more if the quality from this amp isnt sufficiently better than my Tv with Dolby Surround can currently provide. Is the Amp easy to connect up to everything because im pretty inexperienced on this front and Sony said they will send an engineer to do it for £15.00. Also, will I have to buy any extra leads to connect my DVD player, VCR and Playstation 2 to the amp. I ask this because there is nothing worse than getting the equipment home then finding out you need a spare cable etc. This may sound like a silly question but how is your amp connected to the TV. My TV make is a Sony KV28 DS20. I know that the DVD is connected to the amp via optical leads. How are the normal TV signals sent to the amp?? On a different subject I was wondering whether anyone else has had the following problem. In all my manuals it says that the best way to connect equipment to the TV for quality purposes is through the S Video In port on the TV. I have located this port and it is in a panel on the front of my TV. Does this mean that I have to leave the panel open and have leads draping across the front of my TV. It all seems a bit silly to me because my TV is only a year and a half old and you would have thought Sony would have had the foresight to put connections on the back and out of sight. If anyone has this same problem or im looking in the wrong place please let me know. Im currently connecting thisngs by Scart instead. Do connections through the S ports really have a lot better quality?? Thanks for your help!

04-04-2002, 10:17	#11
iain Guest Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 62,990	talking of sony Does anyone have their Pascal speakers? Any thoughts? I currently have a 28" w/s wega tv and 735 dvd player, and hopefully this year will finally get a new amp and speakers. The amp being the STRDB 1070, but, even tho' I like the look of the pascals, and everything would be matching Sony - however I have read some less than flattering reports. Also the new LISSA speakers, bit more expensive, but any recommendations? Cheers, Iain

04-04-2002, 11:13	#12
pjl Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Teesside Posts: 151	Re: talking of sony Quote: Originally posted by iain Does anyone have their Pascal speakers? Any thoughts? I currently have a 28" w/s wega tv and 735 dvd player, and hopefully this year will finally get a new amp and speakers. The amp being the STRDB 1070, but, even tho' I like the look of the pascals, and everything would be matching Sony - however I have read some less than flattering reports. Cheers, Iain The Pascal's (model 520 I think?) combined with that 1070 amp is an excellent choice - at work we've got it hooked up with a 36" DS70, and it's the business!

02-04-2002, 14:31	#2
MrAnarchy Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Manchester Posts: 198	Hello DannyB, The HTk475 is being made replaced now.It is being replaced with the STR485 receiver and I presume the speakers will be modified slightly from the Save225 ( at present) The STR475 receiver is very good and received a 4 star review in 'What Video and TV' last month. Fantastic value and 400w of power. I have been looking at this product for a long time but may now hold off until the STR485 is launched next month.You can pre-order it on www.unbeatable.co.uk for 160 pounds which is unbelievable value. This new model uses a 32 bit decoder instead of 24 bit and I think it has Prologic 2 decoding capabilities which is a big advantage. You can get the save 325 speakers which is a step up from those of the HTK475 pack for 129.99 at www.unbeatable.co.uk. These are excellent value and much better than the Save 225. Alltogether you can get these 2 items for under 300 pounds. Great value.I am getting this as soon as it launches. You can get very detailed information on the STR475 and the Save325 speakers at www.Crutchfield.com.It is an american site but all the info is accurate for Europe.It is a very good site. The system is very easy to setup.Just connect either a coaxial or optical connector from your dvd player to the amp and you are away for digital sound. Normal tv signals are connected via the 2 stereo connectors ( Left and right )on your tv or SKY box. The Sony amp has connections for a CD player ,Minidisc etc. The amp can decode Prologic signals from a stereo Dolby surround source giving you 2 front stereo signals , a matrixed centre and 2 mono matrixed rear signals. Prologic 2 has the advantage in that the rear signals are stereo and it also provides a subwoofer channel. You can also spice up normal stereo with the DSP's. Scart connections are better than S-Video I have a Sony TV and I use Scart connections .Stay with the Scart. Hope I 've helped.

02-04-2002, 17:15	#3
wicket Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NE England Posts: 3,096	Just another point to add check that you can connect your dvd player to the amp you probably can but I know some people have bought an amp only to discover it has no coaxial input which is the only output their dvd player has. You will need at least one optical input if you are connecting your PS2 to it.

02-04-2002, 20:03	#4
DannyB Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 62	Hi, Thanks a lot for your reply, it was very helpful, although now im wondering whether to wait for the 485 amp or to go for the 475 lol, do you have any idea when its due out next month? The DVD player I have is the DVP-S536 and I have checked and it has a coaxial and a optical input so I assume that everything will be ok. I just have a couple of questions for you. The first is regarding the TV connection. By connecting the left and right stereo connections on the TV to those on the amp will the amp convert the signal to Dolby Prologic and send the signal to the speakers which are connected to the amp. I ask this because at the moment I have a pro logic TV and if I only connect up the left and right stereo sockets on the TV then does this leave the other ones on my TV redundant? (Hope that makes sense) My second question is regarding Pro Logic 2 which you mentioned. Does the amp convert normal pro logic signals into pro logic 2 or do the programmes have to be filmed in pro logic 2 for the sound to be accessed? By the way do all the leads I need for connecting my VCR, DVD etc come supplied with the amp or will I need to buy extra? Thank you for all your help before and if you could answer the above it would greatly help my purchase decision.

03-04-2002, 10:32	#5
MrAnarchy Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Manchester Posts: 198	Quote: By connecting the left and right stereo connections on the TV to those on the amp will the amp convert the signal to Dolby Prologic and send the signal to the speakers which are connected to the amp Any Dolby Digital Amp will be backwards compatible in that it will provide Dolby Prologic 1 Decoding. I see what you mean about the Left and Right on the TV.I am not sure if your tv has split the signal already so you may only be feeding part of it to the amp.You can alternatively feed all 5 inputs into the AMPs 5.1 input.A bit messy though. Prologic 2 will work on any Dolby surround sound source.All the same programmes as Pro Logic 1. You mightnt need an amp after all. I think your DVD player has a 5.1 output.i.e a built in Dolby Digital decoder. All you basically need is a set of amplified speakers and you can connect these up to your dvd player ,then use your tv for Prologic. The speakers may cost you only 100 pounds or less all depending on the wattage.Only drawback is that you will have alot of speakers !

03-04-2002, 10:37	#6
MrAnarchy Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Manchester Posts: 198	Forgot to say that you wont get any connectors with the Amp. With the Sony speakers you will get sufficient speaker wire for all the speakers. I think that when a 2 channel stereo signal is converted to Pro Logic the 2 front will probably be the same as Left and Right before conversion. The extra channels are matrixed from these 2.Centre and mono rear. Hope this helps.

03-04-2002, 21:12	#7
pjl Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Teesside Posts: 151	If you're looking for more of a Home Theatre setup, but want to remain with Sony (which is a good choice), why not take a look at their excellent DAV-S800 system? If you're definately after a stand-alone amp - the 475 is a great choice, as is the 1020 (or is it the 1070? - I can't remember offhand). Then add some Pascal speakers and you're laughing!

04-04-2002, 01:29	#8
DannyB Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 62	Considering I already have a DVD player (Sony DVPS536) would it really be worth going for for the DAP-S800. How much does that system cost and is the sound comparable in quality to that of a stand a lone digital amp i.e S475. If I went for the DAP-S800 can you connect everything up to it so all signals go through the amp i.e VCR, Playstation and TV signal? What im basically looking for is an amp and some speakers that convert my DVD audio into Dolby Digital and DTS, and I also want my TV signal to sound better and also the sound from my VCR. My dad reckons its a waste of money and is trying to stop me getting one. Thats why im really looking for a system that will stop him in his tracks and believe I made the right the right choice lol, Im willing to spend around £500 max or perhaps wait for the S485 amp which has pro logic2. What do you guys think?

04-04-2002, 09:23	#9
pjl Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Teesside Posts: 151	Well if you already have a 536, shelling out the best part of £800 on the DAV-S800 could well be un-necessary. For my setup, I've just purchased a JVC TH-A5 Home Theatre kit. Although a seperate amp and DVD would have given better results, for bedroom use and on a budget I'm sure you'll agree I've made a good buy - excellent sound from the system. Pro Logic 2 is something I can live without, but its all to do with personal choice I suppose - if you want it, wait for the Sony 485. Their current amps, however, are excellent.

04-04-2002, 09:30	#10
wicket Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NE England Posts: 3,096	Dan, persist in your desire to get an amp you will never regret it. Your Dad just doesn't know what he is missing by listening just to the sound produced by the tv. I would say buy a separate amp rather than an integrated system. You have an good dvd player so it is pointless buying an integrated one. The thing about these Sony integrated systems I particularly don't like is that they only output s-video which usually means connecting wires to the front of your tv all of the time. I prefer a RGB scart connection myself. I think if you could get an amp with Dolby Prologic II that would be a plus but not an necessity. Basically you want an amp to output Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS as a minimum. If you want to future proof yourself buy an amp with 6.1 sound but this will probably be out of your price range but again this is a plus and not a necessity. If in the future all dvds are 6.1 they will stay play 5.1 sound on your amp. (Hi pjl, you are in the same neck of the woods as me)

04-04-2002, 19:42	#13
Spooky Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 69	I had a set of Pascal 705 Speakers and found them OK for home cinema, but not brill, and poor for normal CD audio. They do tend to be very "trebley" and lack mid range and the sub was just plain nasty. Also I have demo'd a Sony 1070 amp and found it a bit too bright for my taste HTH Spooks

05-04-2002, 09:06	#14
iain Guest Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 62,990	Thanks for the comments there - as ever the jury seems to be out on these Pascals - I guess if I ever do find myself with a grand to spare I'll need to go and have a listen before I buy! Will probably still go for the 1070 amp tho - generally excellent reviews and looks great. But then I've wanted one since it was the 940, and before that the 930.....if only I hadn't bought that darned tv and dvd player I'd be able to afford it Iain

05-04-2002, 20:18	#15
Spooky Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 69	I know 2 people that have this amp and think its great, having said that they have never said if it decodes EX and ES titles or not. I still have an old sony 830 so I cant really criticise any amp to be honest I have found the Onkyo and Denon amps to be very good but they are a fair bit more expensive, but its just a matter of preferance really when it comes to amps. Have fun demo'ing amps....... I know I enjoy it Laters Spooks

05-04-2002, 21:26	#16
iain Guest Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 62,990	I think I'd gladly swap my Sony STR-D515 (complete with, I've always presumed, bottom of the range speakers!) for an 830. I'm fairly confident, despite their disputed reputation, the pascals will sound the business in my front room. I hope Although I'm quite taken by the new LA speakers - and they come in purple, so would fit in with the decour.... Iain

10-04-2002, 09:27	#17
MrAnarchy Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Manchester Posts: 198	Looking at www.Crutchfield.com it seems that the STR-485 doesnt have Prologic 2 capabilities which is a major disappointment. Just confirms my belief that 90% of salespeople will tell you anything to make a sell.

12-04-2002, 09:47	#18
MrAnarchy Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Manchester Posts: 198	I was in one of my local stores yesterday and I had a look at the new Sony brochure. The Str475 has been replace with the STR-485 which is a slight makeover .No Prologic 2. They have introduced a new receiver STR585 which has 100w per channel and Prologic 2. This is a sexy beast and I think is much better value at only 30 pounds more than the 485. The HTK475 has been replaced by the HTD-DW740 which incorporates the Str485 and a new set of speakers. This kit was previously on sale in the US as the HTD-DW730 for $299. 50% more here. There is also a HTD-DW840 which has the STR585 plus a set of speakers. I am now going to go for the STR585 receiver and pair this with the Save325 speakers as they are better spec and look better than those of the HTD-DW840.Also save myself 100 pounds. There is a replacement for the HTK215 planned for August.Looks fantastic and is really compact.Same price at Unbeatable as the 215 !

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