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Samsung killed Android and sale by 'specs' to become less relevant?
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Stereo Steve
31-08-2015
You can't help thinking that any expansion of Windows will just take share from Android though. I just hoe that if that is the case that MS don't allow makers to put all this crap over the basic OS. If Google had any sense they would stop it NOW. It's just plain stupid.
jchamier
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by Stereo Steve:
“You can't help thinking that any expansion of Windows will just take share from Android though. I just hoe that if that is the case that MS don't allow makers to put all this crap over the basic OS. If Google had any sense they would stop it NOW. It's just plain stupid.”

Google can't stop it. What else is there to distingush a £700 samsung from a £200 Honor? When otherwise they both run Android 5.1 and have the same resolution screen?

That's the problem - and the same is happening to Android phones as happened to Windows laptops in retail stores. They end up all looking the same, and priced the same, and its the "crapware" that dominates.

Android needs a www.pcdecrapifier.com equivalent - but without 'root' its very hard to do.
barbeler
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by corf:
“Clark shoes measured my childs feet with an iPad.”

Has the world gone mad?
ShaunIOW
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by grumpyoldbat:
“I bought a BlackBerry Classic to use for work as it's mostly email I use it for, but the ability to install Android apps has been a serious lifesaver. The BlackBerry hardware is really nice, the battery life is great, and the serious lack of native BB apps is tempered by having the Amazon App Store on board, so I can get all the work-related productivity apps I need.

I'd only ever had an old style BB before, and I hated it with a passion. The Classic has been a pleasant surprise, and you can pick one up brand new and SIM free for £260!”

I've got the Blackberry Leap (as I said) and the battery life is fantastic - much better than my previous Sony Z3 Compact, and under £190 SIM free.

BTW you don't have to rely on the Amazon App Store for Android Apps as it's possible to get the Google Play Store installed on the Blackberry and use the Play Store as if you're on an Android phone and buy, update, download etc as normal, but with an added extra layer of security and asking for permissions (all the apps I had in my play store account that I have installed to my blackberry run prefectly so far, with my Blackberry appearing as an allowed device to install to in the Play store).
finbaar
31-08-2015
Look at the phone market in 2005. What was the market share of Android then? What was market share of Apple?
So no shit sherlock, the market will be different in 2025. And none of us have the faintest idea where it is going. However for me I would guess that Apple are in for some tough quarters with the financial situation in China and the way the US carriers are moving away from the subsidy model.
oilman
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by barbeler:
“Has the world gone mad? ”

Solution to a problem we never had!
oilman
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by finbaar:
“Look at the phone market in 2005. What was the market share of Android then? What was market share of Apple?
So no shit sherlock, the market will be different in 2025. And none of us have the faintest idea where it is going. However for me I would guess that Apple are in for some tough quarters with the financial situation in China and the way the US carriers are moving away from the subsidy model.”

I would love to see "Tomorrow's World" brought back - some of their future predictions seem absolutely laughable now, but the point was imagination. Look at a lot of Star Trek things - communicators, sliding doors, hand held reading and computing devices etc.

So, in the spirit of not having the faintest idea where the market will go, I predict the new technology will use unobtanium power cells (1 year between power charges), it will use a new OS called Deep Thought, and will beam everything to the 11111000000 server, and will multiply 6x9 in base 13.
jchamier
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by finbaar:
“I would guess that Apple are in for some tough quarters with the financial situation in China and the way the US carriers are moving away from the subsidy model.”

No worse than Samsung - their handsets are similarly priced if you have no subsidy to the Apple handsets.
Geowitch
31-08-2015
I don't agree that only tech types buy Nexus devices. My husband and I both use Nexus phones as they are reasonably priced and have pure Android. I have had Samsung and HTC and don't like their overlays. We certainly are not techies though!

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“I have been on Android since about '09, but even I'm not sure if my next phone will have the Android OS.

A lot of people think Samsung / Touchwiz is Android and they don't even realise there are cleaner, simpler and nicer UI's which are kept up to date but those Android native devices like the Nexus are really only sold in relatively small numbers to developer or tech types.”

jchamier
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by Geowitch:
“I don't agree that only tech types buy Nexus devices. My husband and I both use Nexus phones as they are reasonably priced and have pure Android. I have had Samsung and HTC and don't like their overlays. We certainly are not techies though!”

I think a lot more Nexus phones would have been sold had the 6 not been so insanely large. The sad truth is that tiny numbers of Nexus phones are actually sold, as they're not generally sold by the networks.

And by being "pure" Android you lose features such as WiFi calling on EE in the UK and T-Mobile in the USA. Something Apple fans don't have a problem with.
tghe-retford
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by jchamier:
“I think a lot more Nexus phones would have been sold had the 6 not been so insanely large. The sad truth is that tiny numbers of Nexus phones are actually sold, as they're not generally sold by the networks.”

Inflating the price of Nexus' devices from an initial place of being subsidised by Google at a price most could afford to a price point competing with premium devices cannot have helped sales.

If it weren't for the fact that I was lucky enough to win my current phone in a competition, I'd have jumped from the Nexus 5 (bought when the prices came down) to one of the Chinese phones. As for tablets, the Nexus 7 (2013) isn't getting replaced for the time being whilst 32GB tablets cost a premium.
Stiggles
31-08-2015
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“You are aware that under the current system the device manufacturer pushes the updates, not google and that they have to take the latest code from google, then put all their custom stuff on top, then test and build and then deploy that out themselves and that only some vendors push out updates, some are incredibly slow and most abandon devices even though many users often continue using them beyond the abandon time of 18month / 2 years.

Are you fully patched then on the Z2 and free of security vulnerabilities?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...detector&hl=en”

In am aware of what they do yes. And they do not do that. A security update does not require a whole new build. The OEM can push a small incremental update. The z2 update the other day was for the stage fright and came in at about 30mb or so.

Also I don't think any mobile OS is fully free of vulnerabilities so its a moot point really.
tealady
01-09-2015
Originally Posted by barbeler:
“Has the world gone mad? ”

Apparently it is not really an ipad but a larger, more robust tablet type device (they have to put their foot on it for one thing). Apparently they can choose 'Ruby' to measure them according to a colleague.
alanwarwic
01-09-2015
Specs are weird these days.
Yes, 3GB ram etc is great for loads of tabs and loads of ads.
Yer Android is well optimised for budget 512MB phones too.

Specs are only relevant if people want to personally choose the best.
Aye Up
01-09-2015
Its fine talking about semantics, but when numbers are crunched it paints a different picture.

The two largest markets in terms of telecoms are India and China. The latter has an expanding middle class who want iOS devices, that is where Apple's growth is coming from. Conversely Android plurally has the biggest market share in India bordering on on 2/3 if these figures are correct:

http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...tems-in-india/

http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...tems-in-china/

I love how everyone saying Android is dead when those two bits of information paint a very different picture. Android is actually expanding on a worldwide basis, given the different price points its available at. iOS will always command a significant part of any market its sold in.....but thats the thing not everyone can afford an iOS device in China, India and the rest of the world.

I agree growth will flatten for both Android and iOS in the developed economies, broadly speaking they will remain the same until about 2018-2019 when new battery technology is FINALLY released to the market. All of this tit for tat means nothing, on a worldwide basis Android is the dominant OS similar to how Windows in on desktops. That won't change, not until Apple decides to make a budget device, which I am 99% sure will never happen.

OS development will slow down for a little while and concentrate on reducing bloat (lets be fair both "pure android" and iOS have enough of it). This usually happens following OS releases which implement new look graphics and art styles. Marshmellow is effectively a rollup release concentrating on under the hood changes which fix the memory and battery issues of its predecessor. iOS 9 is broadly the same, there aren't a significant amount of new features, its mainly the same as Androids latest offering.

Android and iOS will remain the dominant operating systems for some time to come, Android will expand and continue to do so given its ability to be attractively priced especially in developing economies.

iOS and latterly iPhone will struggle, there aren't a lot of people in Africa who would buy an iOS device, as the cost of that alone might be as much as 2 years wages in some parts of the continent. China is providing new revenue streams for Apple, it is expanding at a vast pace....what happens after? There aren't a great deal of other markets which could supply further growth. Apple will always remain very profitable I have no doubt about that, like other Tech companies their revenues will flatline in some respects. For the next 2 years I think will prove to be their most valuable in revenue and productivity. If as most expect Apple does release a roundface watch, then they could cannibalise the market there.

Android will always expand where as iOS won't, we are mixing profitability with shelf life. iOS devices are the most profitable in the industry and as alluded too Apple rake it in. Depending on who you believe on a plural basis Android is actually a loss making ecosystem, the only company to profit from it is Google, as they control the marketing and adverts.

Then again maybe Android will die next year?
alanwarwic
01-09-2015
There was a massive section of co sumers in China denied the iPhone until recent.
So Apple have double windfall sales there when you consider the new phablet windfall.

Wait and see how it levels off in a year or so.

But Android is raw capitalism at work, only the fittest and best will survive there. There's Chinese companies making billions, so punters money might well be on them advancing ahead of everyone.
jchamier
01-09-2015
Originally Posted by Aye Up:
“Then again maybe Android will die next year? ”

I suspect iPhone sales will drop in China with all the recent woe in the stock markets. Android will decline slowly, corporates will start to block its usage for business data, due to the lack of patches (see the Stagefright thread). The outcome will be more corporate sales for iPhone in US/Europe etc - where currently companies are letting people use their own handsets. If Apple keep the 5c or similar 'entry level' handset, it could become the corporate standard. Make it £200 unconnected, or cheaper, and its very possible.

Just like Windows is dying in homes due to phones (and a bit by tablets) but essential in corporates.

Actually who knows, this is all guesswork
Aye Up
01-09-2015
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“There was a massive section of co sumers in China denied the iPhone until recent.
So Apple have double windfall sales there when you consider the new phablet windfall.

Wait and see how it levels off in a year or so.”

Well you made that point better than I did

In fairness to iOS it doesn't lose a great deal of customers to other OS like Android or Windows. I am sure more move in the other direction to iOS, even then its small. When you become invested in either platform you tend to stick to it, for me all my accounts revolve around Google and Microsoft, fortunately their "stock apps" are cross platform. In the sense of Onedrive I can use it to backup photos on iOS, Android and Windows. You can't do that with Apple related services, being unable to use iCloud on another device with a different OS is a killer for me.

Cook is being smart I have to give it to him. He has been working very hard pushing for iOS devices to be used as part of a service offering from IBM and CISCO. I think has said as much that Apple is reliant on 1 product too much and needs to diversify their portfolio. Certain levels of government in the US and UK have approved use of devices for limited use in secure environments. I expect Apple will further beef this up with iOS 9, they are in talks to get their devices certified for highly classified material.

Ironically this is still dominated by Blackberry, though I do believe they have an environment which can; be installed onto iOS and Android devices to make them secure (have only ever seen it in person once). KNOX from Samsung is also winning quite few fans in the MOD, but again lacks the "total security" of a Blackberry environment. The security services in this country will only allow communication on devices that are completely sandboxed, sadly at the moment iOS doesn't offer this where as Android, Windows and Blackberry OS do. That will change either with iOS 9 or the next one.
alan1302
01-09-2015
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Specs are weird these days.
Yes, 3GB ram etc is great for loads of tabs and loads of ads.
Yer Android is well optimised for budget 512MB phones too.

Specs are only relevant if people want to personally choose the best.”

Or for people who want more than the bargain basement.
alanwarwic
01-09-2015
Pocket friendly prices sounds better.

alan1302
02-09-2015
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Pocket friendly prices sounds better.

”

Sounds like an advert in Poundland!
Stereo Steve
02-09-2015
I don't really understand why all these cheap chinese phone makers bother to spew their bile over stock Android. Why not just use it. It would be much simpler and cheaper for them and would make updates much easier. I suspect that very few people would mind and many more would be very happy. My ZTE is a decent little phone for the price but now I rely on ZTE for updates to fix security issues and those updates don't work.

If they really want to disrupt the market they should just make very high spec phones with pure Android on it. That would totally appeal to me. As it is, I'm missing iOS at the moment.
oilman
02-09-2015
Originally Posted by jchamier:
“I suspect iPhone sales will drop in China with all the recent woe in the stock markets. Android will decline slowly, corporates will start to block its usage for business data, due to the lack of patches (see the Stagefright thread). The outcome will be more corporate sales for iPhone in US/Europe etc - where currently companies are letting people use their own handsets. If Apple keep the 5c or similar 'entry level' handset, it could become the corporate standard. Make it £200 unconnected, or cheaper, and its very possible.

Just like Windows is dying in homes due to phones (and a bit by tablets) but essential in corporates.

Actually who knows, this is all guesswork ”

FFS Windows is not dying in homes. The use of laptops and pcs has declined a bit in terms of new sales, as tablets and phones are more convenient to many users.

Windows itself still has the largest market share by far on laptops and PCs.
Aye Up
02-09-2015
Originally Posted by Stereo Steve:
“I don't really understand why all these cheap chinese phone makers bother to spew their bile over stock Android. Why not just use it. It would be much simpler and cheaper for them and would make updates much easier. I suspect that very few people would mind and many more would be very happy. My ZTE is a decent little phone for the price but now I rely on ZTE for updates to fix security issues and those updates don't work.

If they really want to disrupt the market they should just make very high spec phones with pure Android on it. That would totally appeal to me. As it is, I'm missing iOS at the moment.”

"Value added services" is usually the reason, mobile networks practiced this frequently before Apple and Google came along. Now there isn't much revenue for them they increase contract prices.

Same goes for Samsung and their ilk, cost of phones in the industry is falling so they try to supplement that by putting their own shit on, hoping you will use some of their services. For instance they offer a few months access to Deezer, when they sign up for longer Samsung gets a cut, win win you might think.

The problem for Samsung and the other big boys, is that most people are loathe to use other apps and tend to stick with the Google supplied and play released apps.

When you have the ecosystem you have the customer, Apple and Google are well aware of this.

In that mind bloated shite will remain
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