Jurors love great gameplay but not dirty players and Vanessa imo is one. Not as bad as Dan but its close. She is lying left and right. Depends on who ends up in Jury and if someone will campaign for her to win. But will anyone even? I am not so sure. I don´t think even Steve would. I think everyone now knows what she is doing.

She tried to bribe Austin, Liz and Julia with money, cars etc. until the DR told her to STOP. She can do it because she is a multi milionaire but i think its a shady thing to do. If the Jury hears that they will not be impressed.

I think the twins would campaign for her if they were both out. Austin could as well seeing as Liztin is no more. I agree with mindset that it will depend on how Vanessa approaches things at the finale. If she continues to lie and does not own the things she's done then it's curtains for her. I also don't think she's very articulate, she stutters a bit and seems to forget things (it makes me cringe) but hopefully her speech would be a truthful one so she won't need to stutter and think up lies on the spot.

Did not know about the bribing. That's a shame.

John is well liked by everyone on the jury and he has won comps including the one to get back in the game. Van has no chance against John. She'll need Steve or Julia with her in f2 to win.

So as soon as the house guests wake up Liz goes jumping into Austin's bed LOL

Her best hope to stay was by continuing to be mad at him, even if the hate was fake. Ain't nobody gonna keep damp panties in the house now....

I wish we had a live feed of the inner workings of her brain overnight, because this is tragic and hilarious.

"He's gonna use it on meeee"

Women in love do the stupidest things.

I think there will be a chance that Liz stays tbh, as for some reason John wants Julia out, maybe because they're both easy final 2 opponents.

Vanessa will not be happy.

John saw Vanessa's influence over Julia yesterday. So I guess he's reacting to that. My basic theory of BB at this stage is almost always take out the strongest player available on any given eviction (unless a more obvious strategic imperative applies). So Liz needs to go.

I can only imagine John is deluding himself into believing Liztin could be persuaded to target Vanessa next week, instead of the other pair in the house; Rockstars. I don't believe Austin would give that a second thought, nor even a first LOL.

Yeah clearly Liz has to go. For John it can only be who is better to beat in comps. He might be afraid that Van wants to take Julia to F2 and not him thats why he wants her gone. But he has to get there first and his only way to get there is win comps. And i think Liz will win over anyone so leaving her in the game is just stupid.

I am still mad that the ogre is not going home this week. First i absolutely dislike him and second he is the only one who can beat John in a physical comp. And omg why is that guy so self absorbed? Everything with him is about camera time, his wrestling career or AFP. Uggghh. Just f off Austin. I was so happy the couple was over yesterday. Now they are in bed together again. I just want to vomit!

Liz tells Austin his fingers smell like garlic.

I wonder what she's been eating.....

She's said this a few times after she gets a fingering LOL

Vanessa and John agree to keep their game plan "simple".

John: "Are we over thinking it?"

Liz looks like leaving.

What's being a fan of people got to do with it? Being a fan of someone doesn't mean I can't look at things objectively

Vanessa's turned it around with viewers since Becky's HoH. People may dislike her but a lot of fans acknowledge the game she's played now. Julie practically admitted to Shelli/Jackie/Becky that Vanessa's playing the best game in their interviews. John and Steve have acknowledged her game play in the DR...

There's absolutely no way she loses in the final two. The questions in the final don't even matter. They're rushed through and we all know the jurors have their minds made up way before that point.

I also don't understand the criticism she receives for 'not owning her game moves'.
She acknowledges she took out Jeff. She acknowledges she did the dirty on Jason. She acknowledges she was going to backdoor Austin... What are these moves people talk about? Nobody ever seems to be able to answer what the moves she denies actually are.

I think people are confusing her moves (which she owns up to) with her verbal diarrhea, which she doesn't own. For example, "I don't lie/don't like liars" or "I have so much integrity" or "my word is good". Of course that's all baloney - it's Big Brother. That's just fans clutching at straws because they dislike her.

Exactly. Austin won't vote for Julia if she's in the final two with Vanessa, despite his showmance with Liz.

I'm not even sure John and Steve would vote for each other if one of them is against Vanessa since both are big fans of the game.

The fact Shelli/Jackie/Becky all agreed to go after Vanessa if they got back in the house proves they think she's the biggest threat to win. In the house Becky was obsessed with getting Vanessa out, the fact she came out praising her game and respecting Vanessa's moves speaks volume. Jackie also spoke the same way in the house.

You don't need to be best friends with the jurors and up their arse in the house to win their vote. They're not stupid, and I don't think we'll ever get an Ian/Dan final two fiasco ever again. The houseguests bow to public opinion these days, and will want to be respected by the fans and vote for the best player.

Liz is the nicer twin to their face. Julia didn't pay any attention to him till this week. But of him and Steve other than wimping out I can't see any strategy to what they do. But I usually predict the wimp move and they so far have done that, mostly.


Your last paragraph does answer your next to last one. And this is where she's failed at the social game. It's not just about game play it's also about connections with the jury. The social game and her's has been terrible. Steve and Julia have been even worse at the social game. She might win over Austin, Liz and John but I think she has as she would put it a statistically better chance with Julia or Steve.

What is the incentive to vote Van over John in F2? His game play would have gotten him to F2 as much as hers... so it can come down to the social game.

"Everyone knows what she is doing" but she's not being targeted by them and taken out? That's because she's positioned herself so brilliantly!

I really don't see this dirty game she's played, but let's say the jury does see her as some sort of female version of Dan in BB14... Do you not think they'll love that? After the backlash of Ian winning over Dan, do you not think the jury will 'respect' Vanessa's game much more than those in BB14 with Dan's game?

She's been extremely loyal to Shelli, Julia, Liz and Austin (bar the backdoor week which was all out in the open and sorted out in the same week). She was also loyal to Clay (until the week he was on the block with Shelli, then she threw him under the bus to make sure Shelli stayed) and Steve (until he stupidly told her several things about his game that went against her).

Nobody else bothered with her (until John in recent weeks), so why shouldn't she target them?

You can tell Becky really respects her game, and Jackie said in the house the best player will get her vote regardless of who that is. Both WILL vote for her if she's in the final two, I'm sure.

It's hardly objective to state categorically that no one could get more than 2 votes against Vanessa at F2. John would.


What the viewers think is irrelevant. What Julie thinks doesn't matter.


Way to go with that objectivity thing LOL



I stand by the point I have already made. If she tries to paint herself a saint for the Jury, they will treat it with contempt and vote against her.

Of course it can but when you have Becky - after being evicted - saying she thinks Vanessa's the biggest threat, she thinks Vanessa's playing the best game, she doesn't hold a grudge and should've maybe worked with her, she (herself) made a dumb move putting Vanessa next to Shelli etc. it shows she isn't bitter and she will vote for game play. Likewise, Jackie said similar stuff.

James and Meg are less predictable. They're not gamers and in their exit interviews have proven to be clueless about the game, not because they don't appreciate Vanessa's game play but because they still don't realise people have had alliances etc. They probably will vote social game over strategic; Meg more so than James... but I don't see Vanessa losing another three votes from any combination of final twos.

Austwins, Steve, John and Shelli were people who have all worked with her and people she's had good social games with. That's six votes without even considering Jackie/Becky/Meg/James. The only one she potentially loses is Liz's if Julia's in final two, and obviously Julia would be unable to vote, so Vanessa's "worst case scenario" puts her at a guaranteed four votes, needing only one of Jackie/Becky/Meg/James to give her a vote, which I firmly believe Jackie and Becky will do.

Hopefully she makes final two then and we will see

Anyone who reads enough of my posts will know I'm pessimistic when it comes to my favourites on reality TV. This isn't about 'bigging up' Vanessa's game play, but about how I see the jurors.

In the house, I didn't respect Becky. I thought she was playing personal and thought she'd be a bitter juror. "Vanessa this, Vanessa that". I was wrong. She's come out, owned her mistakes and acknowledged Vanessa's play.
Jackie, in the house, never appeared bitter. She always had a "it's only a game" attitude and always said she wouldn't be bitter and would vote for the best gamer.

So where are these votes coming from for John? Austwins hate him and have great relationship with Vanessa. Becky was cheering on Steve over John when she came out he can't rely on her. Steve is a gamer and has acknowledged Vanessa's game in the DR. No way he votes social over strategy, besides, Vanessa's been just as much of a 'friend' to him as John.
So he's got Meg and James, and possibly Shelli? You know, the one who made an alliance with him, forgot all about it and simply used him to throw comps. That one? I'm sure he can rely on her vote, over someone who she played this game so closely with from start to finish.

The assumption I presume is that only Vanessa's game will be considered as great game play. What happens if Vanessa goes this week? For me anyone who makes the F2 has played a great game, what if the jury think that too? If someone plays Van out of the game does their game then get elevated to masterful?

Vanessa's verbal diarrhea won't help her with the jury, it could only hurt her. If she uses her usual approach, it could be disaster. But I don't expect that from her. I think these people on this series will consider each of the finalists game and how they feel about it.

I disagree with you about James, his exit interview was gracious and showed he was a good sport. In fact he's one of the people she may have lost permanently because he was one of the people she yelled at and was mean to. John is another. The twins can turn on a dime, they may same as with Austin and Steve not need more kool aid to stay on the Vanessa train or they may all feel played and unable to see her game that we see. They seem to take things very personal.

Other than saying I think John would get more than 2 votes and may even win, I haven't otherwise tried to be definitive, so:

I'm certain John would not get any votes from Austwins. But to my mind all the others are up for grabs. Since James and Meg would vote for him, is it impossible to believe they might pull Jackie? I think it's entirely possible that both Shelli and Becky could vote for him. He was after all, never less than absolutely loyal to both of them. He might also get Steve's vote, depending on the circumstances of his eviction.

Let me make this clear, I really don't care who wins and I would have no problem whatever should Vanessa win. I think she is a good strategist, but weak socially. She is on balance, one of the better players in recent seasons (behind Derrick) and might be regarded as a top 10 player, if she wins. If.

On a side note about "bitter juries". People who complain about that remind me of politicians who, after losing an election, blame the electorate, instead of looking at themselves or their own policies.

If Vanessa isn't in the final two then it's irrelevant?
Doesn't mean she has or hasn't played a great game, it just means she didn't make final two.

Shelli played just as hard as Vanessa, the reason her game ended is because she tried to cover herself with the entire house. Still played a much better than a lot of houseguests this year, though.
Jeff played a short, but powerful game, too. He had the entire Summer Camp clan wrapped up and if he stayed and they won the next HoH, the outsiders (at that time) would've been wiped out (Vanessa, Austwins, John, Becky).

Leaving before final two doesn't mean rubbish game play, just like making final two doesn't mean great game play. Can you serious say with a straight face that GinaMarie and Cody played a great game? Come on now. We all know a lot of deadwood slip through the net because the big players are too busy taking chunks out of each other.

No, I don't think that taking out Vanessa means someone automatically is playing a 'masterful game'. It's about looking at their games throughout. If Julia suddenly took Vanessa out next week, that doesn't mean she deserves to win.

As for Vanessa's speech, there's nothing to worry about there. Once you hit the final two, there's nothing to hide anymore - you've made it to the end and there's no lying or backstabbing to be done. She may run around the house, stating she doesn't lie, her word is good, etc. but there's absolutely no need for that when she gets to the final two and she'll be direct and to the point with the questioning.

The likes of Meg and James don't understand why Vanessa targeted them last week, the jurors will fill them in. All Shelli needs to say is that we had an alliance called Sixth Sense and suddenly Meg and James will understand why she didn't go after Austwins.

I'm not saying James is bitter, but he played a very social game, so he will probably vote that way as he'll relate to it more. There's no right or wrong way to vote, but I think over recent years, houseguests understand - or at least think - the viewers would rather see them vote for the best game play or they can come across as a bit petty/bitter and seem to lose respect from the fans, so this sort of mentality will help Vanessa greatly.

I just think, looking at the line up of jurors, we have a very game-orientated jury. Shelli, Jackie and Becky all see it through strategical eyes. John, Steve and Austin all look at the game strategically. Meg, James, Julia and Liz are social players, but the twins are closely aligned with Vanessa and Vanessa's done a good job in the last 24 hours with them.

Also, Shelli, Jackie, Vanessa and the twins have all talked throughout the series of a female pulling through and winning the show for once, so I do think they're likely to fight for Vanessa if she's sat in the final two with a male. Obviously, I'm not saying it'd be a huge factor in the decision, but they're very much aware that the male is always seen as the 'better' player over the female, so I think they'll be cautious of that and making sure the other jurors don't just assume that's the case.

People are looking at Vanessa and questioning her jury speech, but what about John's?
What can he possibly argue - thus far - that makes people think, 'you know, what, he has played a great game, I'm giving him my vote'.

There's not much he can say, "I threw comps for an alliance that forgot I even existed and never had my back, then when I got evicted I realised I was at the bottom, so came back and worked with Vanessa who helped me stay in the game. I mean, whoops... I shouldn't have said that when she's sat beside me..."

Regardless of how Steve leaves, he won't be bitter (or whatever word you want to use).

I also said in my latest post (before I read yours) about people voting how they like. I don't care who votes how and I love it when people vote how they want rather than thinking about how they'll come across to America. I loved Judd's random vote for GinaMarie, I loved Jocasta and Donny voting for Cody. Did I agree with them? No, it was clear Andy and Derrick played better games, but that's my opinion, and if they don't agree, I don't care; it's their vote, not mine.

I think you've misunderstood my posts on this. I'm not saying Vanessa should get every vote. I'm not saying Vanessa should win. Would I like her to? Yes. But that isn't my point.

I'm trying to put myself in the jurors shoes and trying to see the game from their perspective from what I've seen of them in and out of the game, and whilst many say Shelli/Becky/Jackie will be "bitter", I disagree. I think they will vote for what they deem as the 'best game', and the evidence suggests they think Vanessa is the best gamer, so if she gets to final two, the chances are they vote for her.

This is just my opinion based on what I've seen of them and the rest of the jurors. Vanessa's actual game doesn't factor into any of it, I'm just trying to think "how would juror #1/#2/#3 vote?" and every combination leads to a Vanessa win if she makes final two... but maybe my judgement of the jurors is wrong; I don't know, just saying how I see things from my own perspective... nothing to do with me liking Vanessa, or wanting Vanessa to win or thinking she's played the best game.

He may not have to come up with a great speech. He may just have to present enough of a reason for the jury to vote for him, against someone they already do not wish to reward.


How about, "These fools evicted me, actually evicted me and I still made it to F2. Not only that but the biggest fool of them all was my openly declared enemy, Vanessa, because I worked her for all that she was worth, from that point onwards..."

Just a thought.


You have no way of knowing this. Anything can happen.


OK


You have said with certainty that Vanessa "will win 100%" against anybody. Not could, or should, but "will". As if it is already an established fact and it isn't. Same with the vote count. There is no way to know that there would be no more than 2 votes against Vanessa.


OK