DS Forums

 
 

Vodafone credit check failed with a perfect credit score


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-09-2015, 17:45
Gigabit
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,875

A member of my family applied for a Vodafone SIM only contract and was declined in the credit check.

They have perfect credit: they have a score of 999/999 on Experian (which is what Vodafone use) and have a 20+ year history of perfect credit.

My question is, how have they possibly failed the credit check?
Gigabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 07-09-2015, 18:48
aurichie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,100
Vodafone would be better positioned to answer since they know what their own credit scoring criteria is. But I would consider it a lucky escape anyway. I wouldn't want to be a Vodafone customer.
aurichie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 18:51
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
We don't have credit scores in this country - what Experian tells you is their interpretation of a credit score (and if you bought the £2 statutory report it wouldn't mention a score, it's a creditexpert thing). It isn't like the US where they have a more formalised score.

Companies like Vodafone obtain the same credit data you can, and they use their own model to decide if you're suitable.
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 19:41
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
That is very odd, I wonder if the family member is not giving the full story, or if Vodafone reference another agency or have changed.

Something doesn't add up here such a high score, sounds highly suspicious that they have the highest possible attained score, (acknowledging that there isn't actually a single score in the UK).
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 19:47
Gigabit
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,875
That is very odd, I wonder if the family member is not giving the full story, or if Vodafone reference another agency or have changed.

Something doesn't add up here such a high score, sounds highly suspicious that they have the highest possible attained score, (acknowledging that there isn't actually a single score in the UK).
I was there when they were rejected over the phone, I was listening to the conversation (it was on speakerphone).

On Experian, the score is 999/999 and that is with more than 20 years of credit info. They have been with the same banks for many, many years, lived at the same address for 17 years.

They've always paid back their debts on time and mortgage payments are always on time so yes there really is no reason at all for the rejection.
Gigabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 19:51
Daveoc64
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bristol (BBC1 West)
Posts: 15,143
Back when I was 24 I had a 999 score with Experian.

As mentioned above, the score is actually pretty meaningless. The credit reference agencies don't know details like your employment status, income and outgoings.

I was turned down for a 30 day SIM only contract by Three with that score - it turned out to be a computer glitch.
Daveoc64 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 20:14
enapace
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,249
Honestly there should be a proper system set up for credit scoring as it is simply stupid how it is done in this country.
enapace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 20:23
samantha_vine
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,167
Vodafone would be better positioned to answer since they know what their own credit scoring criteria is. But I would consider it a lucky escape anyway. I wouldn't want to be a Vodafone customer.
Are vodafone that bad?
samantha_vine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 20:32
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
Honestly there should be a proper system set up for credit scoring as it is simply stupid how it is done in this country.
It won't change much. It would just mean that each company would choose different thresholds - and possibly rejecting customers who just fall short of the threshold.

Even if there was a score, it doesn't mean companies have to use it. They could just do as they do now.

It'd be better if they could explain why you were denied
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 20:44
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
Honestly there should be a proper system set up for credit scoring as it is simply stupid how it is done in this country.
Some elements are more important to some companies, such as a good verified address and being listed on the electoral register vs the occasional missed payment, some favour other criteria. The benefit of the UK system is that the companies don't rely on just 1 score, but generate their own score based on the risk factors for their industry, which can vary by industry.

Companies also make adjustments from time to time based on current default / fraud levels and of those given credit with different characteristics which defaulted, therefore giving them the ability to adjust or find the risk management sweet spot.

Some companies pick certain credit profiles, with some credit cards they actually like people who occasionally miss payments and have an average score, but no CCJs as they like the fact you'll incur some charges from time to time! A customer that always pays back month by month earns them virtually nothing, vs a customer who borrows and pays the APR, with credit cards they can see on your credit profile if you always repay every month and you'd be of less interest to them than a customer that doesn't and borrows.
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 21:11
japaul
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,662
Could just be a keying error and a name or address was spelt wrongly so it never found the details which will be an instant rejection.

Experian credit score shouldn't be 999 if there's been a recent application as a search reduces it so I'd look to see if the search shows on the credit file. If not, then you probably have your answer.
japaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 21:57
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
Could just be a keying error and a name or address was spelt wrongly so it never found the details which will be an instant rejection.

Experian credit score shouldn't be 999 if there's been a recent application as a search reduces it so I'd look to see if the search shows on the credit file. If not, then you probably have your answer.
Sounds the most likely thing.
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 22:31
enapace
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,249
Some elements are more important to some companies, such as a good verified address and being listed on the electoral register vs the occasional missed payment, some favour other criteria. The benefit of the UK system is that the companies don't rely on just 1 score, but generate their own score based on the risk factors for their industry, which can vary by industry.

Companies also make adjustments from time to time based on current default / fraud levels and of those given credit with different characteristics which defaulted, therefore giving them the ability to adjust or find the risk management sweet spot.

Some companies pick certain credit profiles, with some credit cards they actually like people who occasionally miss payments and have an average score, but no CCJs as they like the fact you'll incur some charges from time to time! A customer that always pays back month by month earns them virtually nothing, vs a customer who borrows and pays the APR, with credit cards they can see on your credit profile if you always repay every month and you'd be of less interest to them than a customer that doesn't and borrows.
If the companies were willing to explain why you failed it would be okay but they refuse to.
enapace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 23:12
Gigabit
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,875
Could just be a keying error and a name or address was spelt wrongly so it never found the details which will be an instant rejection.

Experian credit score shouldn't be 999 if there's been a recent application as a search reduces it so I'd look to see if the search shows on the credit file. If not, then you probably have your answer.
No searches are coming up on the credit file so that does perhaps seem to be the case.

It's a shame that Vodafone are saying the only next steps are to reapply in three months or to appeal the decision, which is what we've done.
Gigabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2015, 17:13
xreyuk123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 509
Experian always over estimate by a huge amount anyway.
xreyuk123 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2015, 19:07
Rich_L
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,647
No searches are coming up on the credit file so that does perhaps seem to be the case.

It's a shame that Vodafone are saying the only next steps are to reapply in three months or to appeal the decision, which is what we've done.
Edit: mis-read
Rich_L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2015, 20:33
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
If the companies were willing to explain why you failed it would be okay but they refuse to.
The frontline staff don't need to know the specific reasons, it probably isn't a good idea to enter into debate with customers either if the answer is no, sometimes there's no one reason but cululative scoring.
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 16:18
The Lord Lucan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,965
I'd say a data entry issue, but it should have been refered. Do they have any identity fraud protection in place?

Get them to go with a real network...
The Lord Lucan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 19:17
enapace
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,249
The frontline staff don't need to know the specific reasons, it probably isn't a good idea to enter into debate with customers either if the answer is no, sometimes there's no one reason but cululative scoring.
Agreed I just think the current system is heavily geared towards companies when it should be more towards the people taking out the credit policies.
enapace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 19:37
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
Agreed I just think the current system is heavily geared towards companies when it should be more towards the people taking out the credit policies.
Why? it's the companies taking the risk and giving the loan or contract / brand new £500 handset for no money up front, not the customer.
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 19:44
ThisGuysGood
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 598
I thought 999 was technically impossible? Because even a car insurance ID search in your file within the last 12 months knocks it down slightly? Or having even £1 of debt will knock it down slightly?

Surely 850-880 is the highest possible?
ThisGuysGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 20:43
Aye Up
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West
Posts: 4,883
I say this as someone who works in the finance industry and reviews these decisions, it is plainly a lender matter. I dislike how phone companies for example and even my employer refer customers to Experian or Equifax to look at their profile. It really doesn't tell you anything, save your credit history, it is a default reply when lenders or credit related providers are questioned. The only people than can reveal why a credit check failed is the company who ran the search. The credit related industry tries all it must to convince people they will find out what they need contacts credit rating agencies.

You will already know what appears on your credit report, what most providers care about is ability to pay. This is how you end up with credit card limits going upto £10k and more in some instances. When companies run the search they look at the money going through your bank account, if it has a consistent turnover and it kept within limits (overdraft) then you will find more credit options open to you.

The difference between finance providers and telecoms companies is the former legally has to assess your criteria doing affordability checks. Where as the latter don't, they want your money regardless of whether you can afford to pay it. Naturally if you are declared bankrupt or entered into an IVA then you will not get anything supplied by credit for at least 5 years.
Aye Up is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 00:00
Gigabit
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,875
The family member has 30 years of on-time mortgage repayments, credit card payments, loan payments, mobile phone contract payments.

There is no logical reason why the application was denied, that I can see.

We are still awaiting to hear from the team at Vodafone who deal with appeals.
Gigabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 00:37
enapace
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,249
Why? it's the companies taking the risk and giving the loan or contract / brand new £500 handset for no money up front, not the customer.
Because it's dead stock to them if they don't sell it that's there entire point they make so much on Handset contracts it's not real. Specially when it's a cheap ass phone they throwing in with the contract.

I say this as someone who works in the finance industry and reviews these decisions, it is plainly a lender matter. I dislike how phone companies for example and even my employer refer customers to Experian or Equifax to look at their profile. It really doesn't tell you anything, save your credit history, it is a default reply when lenders or credit related providers are questioned. The only people than can reveal why a credit check failed is the company who ran the search. The credit related industry tries all it must to convince people they will find out what they need contacts credit rating agencies.

You will already know what appears on your credit report, what most providers care about is ability to pay. This is how you end up with credit card limits going upto £10k and more in some instances. When companies run the search they look at the money going through your bank account, if it has a consistent turnover and it kept within limits (overdraft) then you will find more credit options open to you.

The difference between finance providers and telecoms companies is the former legally has to assess your criteria doing affordability checks. Where as the latter don't, they want your money regardless of whether you can afford to pay it. Naturally if you are declared bankrupt or entered into an IVA then you will not get anything supplied by credit for at least 5 years.
Precisely my point it isn't handled the best at all and credit rating companies are complete bull in my honest opinion. I work for a bank and have had myself properly looked at by a finance department and it's done they don't care about electoral list for instance.
enapace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2015, 01:56
Aye Up
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West
Posts: 4,883
Precisely my point it isn't handled the best at all and credit rating companies are complete bull in my honest opinion. I work for a bank and have had myself properly looked at by a finance department and it's done they don't care about electoral list for instance.
Same for where I work, most places now rely on official government documents like passports and drivers licence. There are some limited circumstances where we can get round that, usually for children introduced by their parents (young person savings account). The days of finance on tap without checks are long gone, affordability checks have helped in this regard.

Its probably the same for you, I get vetted every 12 months to check for any unknown defaults and such like. 6 weeks ago a colleague in another location was dismissed for not declaring his bankruptcy. They take it that seriously as I'm sure you know.

That said from my own time in the mobile industry, the criteria for phones is a lot less restrictive and it really can depend on the mood of the person in credit control. Bizarrely disabling a request for roaming can make it go through easier, most cases can be applied after 3 months. Though I should say this doesn't seem to be an option when you buy online, instore they may have that facility.
Aye Up is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:53.