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Do you think 'Ray of Light' changed the music landscape?


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Old 15-09-2015, 23:05
Tether
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I think this album widely introduced electronic music into mainstream pop audience and is probably the most influential album of the last twenty years.
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Old 15-09-2015, 23:31
NicoleRich
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No, it's overrated.
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Old 16-09-2015, 01:01
FMKK
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I think this album widely introduced electronic music into mainstream pop audience and is probably the most influential album of the last twenty years.
Electronic music which has already being to become popular by the late 1970s?

Jesus, the fanboys of pop stars have a more inflated sense of their importance than the singers themselves.
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Old 16-09-2015, 01:20
Aneechik
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She jumped on a bandwagon that was already slowing down by that point, so no.
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Old 16-09-2015, 07:43
mgvsmith
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Electronic music which has already being to become popular by the late 1970s?

Jesus, the fanboys of pop stars have a more inflated sense of their importance than the singers themselves.
It probably depends on location and the type of electronic music being considered. But the kind of techno, house, heavily sampled music (electronica) was more popular at raves and clubs than in the mainstream charts in the mid 90s. I thought 'Fat of the Land' might have been considered the breakthrough album for electronica becoming mainstream but it wasn't much before 'Ray of Light' and can The Prodigy be considered mainstream?

I don't think this is a fanboy thing. I'm not a fan of either artist although I have both albums. I also think William Orbit is a bit repetitive in his production but 'Ray of Light' is lyrically strong, so there is a big creative input from Madonna on the album. Ray of Light' is a great album whatever disagreement about its influence on mainstream pop.
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Old 16-09-2015, 08:24
Cloudbuster
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Absolutely not. She didn't create the genre!
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Old 16-09-2015, 09:20
Johnny_Cash
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Is this serious? Really you think a mid career madonna album, a professional magpie that she is changed the pop landscape?

Without even looking into it, plucking an example out of the air, Robert Miles Children and the album Dreamland came out in 95, that changed the pop landscape more than a madonna album.
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Old 16-09-2015, 09:21
mgvsmith
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Absolutely not. She didn't create the genre!
The suggestion is that 'Ray of Light' introduced electronica to the mainstream not that Madonna invented a genre. Electronica is made up of a whole set of genres anyway.
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Old 16-09-2015, 09:43
Rocketpop
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The suggestion is that 'Ray of Light' introduced electronica to the mainstream not that Madonna invented a genre. Electronica is made up of a whole set of genres anyway.
Actually the suggestion from the first post in this thread is that Ray of Light introduced electronic music to the mainstream, which is why it's getting laughed at.
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Old 16-09-2015, 10:23
mgvsmith
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Is this serious? Really you think a mid career madonna album, a professional magpie that she is changed the pop landscape?

Without even looking into it, plucking an example out of the air, Robert Miles Children and the album Dreamland came out in 95, that changed the pop landscape more than a madonna album.
Great record but to be fair, that was a single. The album wasn't as successful particularly in the U.S.

Also, Bowie another professional magpie, did something similar in the 70s ( along with Eno and Fripp).

Actually the suggestion from the first post in this thread is that Ray of Light introduced electronic music to the mainstream, which is why it's getting laughed at.
Yeah, I treated that as a typo. I thought the poster meant electronica rather than electronic music.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of Madonna hate you get. I'm not a fan of Madonna's music generally but 'Ray of Light' is a good album and did have some influence in the mainstreaming of electronica. And Madonna is a major influence on pop music over the last 30 years like it or not.
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Old 16-09-2015, 12:46
Billy Hicks
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This is a new one, the usual myth I hear (usually from a US point of view) is that when 'Vogue' was released Madonna made house music popular. Actually maybe more accurate in the United States but definitely not over here.

Have a look at the charts pre-Ray of Light being released over here and you'll see absolutely tons of mainstream chart hits of the same genre for years before. It definitely did wonders for Madonna's career in the same way it briefly did for Cher a few months later (when Believe was released) but it wasn't groundbreaking.
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Old 16-09-2015, 12:47
SummerHeart
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No, Ray of Light hasn't changed the music landscape nor is it the most influential album of the last 20 years. The claim that Madonna is a trendsetter is nothing more than a myth concocted by fans who are dire need of a little perspective and a clue. Ray of Light was Madonna jumping on the trip hop bangwagon when it was already in full motion.

Yes, she worked with Massive Attack on a song in the mid-1990s, she also recorded a song written by Bjork, but trip hop had been popular since 1991. Madonna saw that trip hop was popular, so she jumped on the bandwagon just like she has done at every other point in her career. She worked with Nellee Hooper and Stéphane Sednaoui several years after Bjork did, she also worked with William Orbit several years after Beth Orton did.

When Portishead released Dummy, Tricky Maxinquaye, Massive Attack Protection and Bjork Debut, Madonna was still trying to up her record sales by releasing lightweight R&B music that TLC, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston and Janet Jackson all outsold and overshadowed. After R&B, she moved on to the next thing that was popular.

Ray of Light contains trip hop and electronica elements that have been watered down and commercialised for mass consumption. Of course a Madonna album is going to sell more copies than Dummy by Portishead or Maxinquaye by Tricky, her music is far more accessible. Ray of Light may well be critically acclaimed, but it’s nowhere near as respected or influential as Dummy.

Interestingly Madonna's track Sky Fits Heaven contains lines from a 1993 TV advert featuring poet Max Blagg. He received payment only when he complained that Madonna never sought permission to use his work in her song. She eventually coughed up the money but refused to give him credit on the track. After Ray of Light, Madonna released Music, an album similar to what Beth Orton and Air were doing in the 1990s.

This is a new one, the usual myth I hear (usually from a US point of view) is that when 'Vogue' was released Madonna made house music popular. Actually maybe more accurate in the United States but definitely not over here.
Vogue is a rip-off of the 1989 song Deep in Vogue by Malcolm McLaren:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9KDmJQjS_0
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Old 16-09-2015, 15:58
FMKK
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Madonna's prime success in terms of 'trend setting' is in getting onto a bandwagon while it's still relatively new and interesting and then marketing more accessible version of its formula to mainstream audiences. The ability to do this in the last decade or so has deserted her as she was late to the party with the whole Timbaland thing in 2008 and now is just intent on making shitty, played out club songs with the occasional guest rapper thrown on.
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:16
mgvsmith
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...

When Portishead released Dummy, Tricky Maxinquaye, Massive Attack Protection and Bjork Debut, Madonna was still trying to up her record sales by releasing lightweight R&B music that TLC, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston and Janet Jackson all outsold and overshadowed. After R&B, she moved on to the next thing that was popular.

Ray of Light contains trip hop and electronica elements that have been watered down and commercialised for mass consumption. Of course a Madonna album is going to sell more copies than Dummy by Portishead or Maxinquaye by Tricky, her music is far more accessible. Ray of Light may well be critically acclaimed, but it’s nowhere near as respected or influential as Dummy.
..
'Ray of Light' isn't a trip hop album, it is influenced by trip hop amongst other genres.
Portishead didn't invent trip hop, they might be said to have popularised the genre but they were influenced by other artists in the development of trip hop. But yes, 'Dummy' is an influential album. That doesn't stop 'Ray of Light' being influential as well.

Vogue is a rip-off of the 1989 song Deep in Vogue by Malcolm McLaren:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9KDmJQjS_0
You might want to consult with The Boyoyo Boys about how original Malcolm McLaren could be.
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:18
mgvsmith
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Madonna's prime success in terms of 'trend setting' is in getting onto a bandwagon while it's still relatively new and interesting and then marketing more accessible version of its formula to mainstream audiences. The ability to do this in the last decade or so has deserted her as she was late to the party with the whole Timbaland thing in 2008 and now is just intent on making shitty, played out club songs with the occasional guest rapper thrown on.
And why can't that be described as being influential?
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Old 16-09-2015, 22:07
RikScot
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Has anyone ever said they were influenced by this album, or Madonna?
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Old 16-09-2015, 23:13
Grabid Rannies
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Has anyone ever said they were influenced by this album, or Madonna?
In the months/year or so that followed ROL's release, many older female singers got in on the whole 'electronica' music thing. Diana Ross, Tina Turner, and of course most famously Cher all took a stab at the genre. Even outside of the mainstream, acts such as Sarah Brightman started to 'electrocise' their new music. I suppose one could loosely say it reached its zenith with Kylie and CGYOOMH.
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Old 16-09-2015, 23:24
Kirsty_Jones90
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While I do rate and enjoy the ROL album a lot, the bold statement from the OP is ridiculous and you must be deluded to think a "happening" started in 1998.
I cannot think of any straight forward influence Ray of light has had apart from giving All Saints a very worthy follow up album with their best singles, courtesy of William Orbit.

The output from Cher's Believe sounds more trashy euro and hasn't got a patch IMHO on the sounds that ROL has.
And the charts have been full of electronic and proper house and dance records since 1988 so why Madonna's ROL would have started a revolution is not clear to me.
The only other thing i can imagine is people getting interested in looking for much less watered down stuff (like I did with the DJ Rap album Learning curve that came out in the same year and has much more depth while retaining a pop feel)
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Old 16-09-2015, 23:29
Grabid Rannies
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You do have a fair point there actually, and on revision I would say that Bjork for example had already been scouring the territory for a good few years. A couple of paving slabs were laid down for ROL in the otherwise soul-destroyingly pedestrian Bedtime Stories album - Sanctuary and the truly majestic Bedtime Story, which of course Bjork wrote. Think Orbit was involved in it in some shape or form also?
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Old 16-09-2015, 23:35
Kirsty_Jones90
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I think that was Nellee Hooper (Bedtime story)
Yes Bjork has been doing this for ages as well.

Maybe the OP meant the boring USA charts suddenly found out dance existed through ROL
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Old 16-09-2015, 23:37
mgvsmith
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Has anyone ever said they were influenced by this album, or Madonna?
Britney, Katy Perry, Rihanna, Christina, Kylie, Beyonce, Avril Lavigne, Nicki Minaj...etc. etc...
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Old 16-09-2015, 23:45
mgvsmith
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I think that was Nellee Hooper (Bedtime story)
Yes Bjork has been doing this for ages as well.

Maybe the OP meant the boring USA charts suddenly found out dance existed through ROL
I think that's what the OP was trying to say and I don't think that it is unreasonable.
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Old 17-09-2015, 00:58
FMKK
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And why can't that be described as being influential?
Because that's not even what she particularly did in this case.
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Old 17-09-2015, 07:10
mgvsmith
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Because that's not even what she particularly did in this case.
We'll, it's a pity you can't stand over your own comments.

'Ray of Light''s gestation is affected by a number of factors. Choosing to use William Orbit as producer/collaborator because she wanted to hear something 'futuristic' would be one; Madonna having learned to sing better following Evita; also having given birth to her daughter since the previous record and having discovered Eastern religions probably all affected her as an artist. Certainly these factors show up in the music and lyrics, so it probably is easier to understand Madonna's motivations from the album itself.
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Old 17-09-2015, 10:33
SummerHeart
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Leftism by Leftfield is another album that I think influenced Ray of Light in a big way. In my opinion, it's a superior album. The eastern influence was also not unique to Ray of Light.
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