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James: "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer".


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Old 20-09-2015, 19:32
hisdogspot
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I'v not read this quote anywhere it sounds like he's employing a strategy of staying close to people he's in competition with. I'm wondering what context could shine a different light on it or is that pretty much it.
I can't think of any other explanation for that comment, whatever the context

James sees Austin as 'the enemy' and his friendship is merely tactical

What a blagger he is
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Old 20-09-2015, 19:40
Bacon&Eggs
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Why is it 'natural'? I don't care how anyone looks, it's not relevant to me.

I only judge on personality.
But would you speak for the general public? do you believe the general public don't give a bonus to those they find attractive.

Men clearly get a bonus for being male else why the massive imbalance between Male/Female winners. Doesn't that demonstrate a sexuality dynamic between viewer and house-mate? Women like Men. Men like Women. ie natural

Ok, that's not just about looks however it's part of it. And i can't believe it's not significant, generally speaking, when women/gay guys chose their favourites.

What good looking males have there been? Am I missing something? The only male winners who were considered good looking by people on the outside at the time of the series was Anthony and Aaron.

Craig, Brian D, Cameron, Pete, Brian B, Luke A, Sam, Jack Dee, Mark Owen, Bez, Alex Reid, Paddy, Julian, Rylan, Jim, Gary.

What stunners they are None of these are the traditional good looking HM.

I judge on the person.
As Mactowin pointed out, generally speaking viewers aren't going to admit looks come into it so we can forget about judging it on "who was considered good looking" I'm talking about a tradition view of handsome or having an appealing physique.

From your list these are:
Craig
Pete
Sam
Mark Owen
Alex Reid
Rylan

Other qualities had the greater effect where as looks played it's part too. For those other winners it was their other qualities that made them stand out above good looking alternatives.

I respect that you judge on the person, i do to as much as i'm aware of it. All i can say is my list of favourites would perhaps demonstrate something else. Hmm i'll have to think on that one though
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Old 20-09-2015, 19:44
benbeez1
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James is a gameplayer he's got everyone in the palm of his hands
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Old 20-09-2015, 19:47
Salv*
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But would you speak for the general public? do you believe the general public don't give a bonus to those they find attractive.

Men clearly get a bonus for being male else why the massive imbalance between Male/Female winners. Doesn't that demonstrate a sexuality dynamic between viewer and house-mate? Women like Men. Men like Women. ie natural

Ok, that's not just about looks however it's part of it. And i can't believe it's not significant, generally speaking, when women/gay guys chose their favourites.



As Mactowin pointed out, generally speaking viewers aren't going to admit looks come into it so we can forget about judging it on "who was considered good looking" I'm talking about a tradition view of handsome or having an appealing physique.

From your list these are:
Craig
Pete
Sam
Mark Owen
Alex Reid
Rylan

Other qualities had the greater effect where as looks played it's part too. For those other winners it was their other qualities that made them stand out above good looking alternatives.

I respect that you judge on the person, i do to as much as i'm aware of it. All i can say is my list of favourites would perhaps demonstrate something else. Hmm i'll have to think on that one though
Yeah I dislike that people support based on looks.

If James had a Sezer, Kris BB10 or Helen personality I'd dislike him immensely
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:15
Bacon&Eggs
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Yeah I dislike that people support based on looks.

If James had a Sezer, Kris BB10 or Helen personality I'd dislike him immensely
A bonus, not a love potion.
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:20
Mrs Checks
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You are indeed making it clear that your opinion is based on context, however you wont divulge your impressions of it. Only "it's not such a big deal, really" I want to know how you've reached that conclusion is all.

I think what your eluding to here is that because iv inquired as to the way you've reached your conclusion, you've gotten a tad defensive and perhaps your wondering if i think your conclusion is based on blind support of James rather than context. I am wondering that. I'd love to hear your impressions on the context so i can make my mind up, alas, maybe another time.
I suppose I am a tad defensive because the fact that you are wondering whether I am blind supporter of James despite the fact that I stated my opinion was made via context, makes me think that you are out to make assumptions about James supporters and are only interested in shouting them down. The very fact that I added the part about context to my opinion should tell you I'm not a blind supporter of James, or indeed anyone.

I have an issue with posters who make assumptions about others and their reasoning/levels of support, especially when there's no evidence for it. I also prefer to engage in debate where both parties actually form their own opinion from the source (in this case, the HL spoilers, but usually the show itself), rather than one poster asking another to clarify their opinion due to their own assumptions.

After my original post, had you gone away and read the HL spoilers, set out your opinion and then asked me to elaborate on mine, we would have had a perfectly pleasant and reasonable discussion. Instead you offered an opinion that really had no basis, and actually came across as an attempt to potentially belittle mine, and continued to ask me for the context/my opinion of the context because you had unfounded doubts about me as a poster.

As stated, I gave you no reason to wonder whether I'm a blind follower of James (and indeed, neither should my previous posts), so to me it very much seems that you potentially lack respect for anyone who might post in favour of James and perhaps you might have an automatic bias against them. I don't really feel like having to defend my status as someone who supports James - I'd rather have a discussion about the actual events, not my own opinion and why you feel that might be wrong (without even forming your own first).
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:34
Darcyprincess
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So after Natasha suggested that James moved beds he responded with "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". So James is playing Austin? If so you can call me another former James fan. I've met James before and he was great, so I automatically voted to save him when I could. But these past few days have put me off of him.
Personally I think James has played Austin all along now! When Austin was funny and jovial James hung onto his coat tails to be more popular but now that Austin is more controversial he doesn't want to be associated with him so much and is trying to detach himself making the public think it's because of Austins behaviour. I think that James has used Austin to get further in the game and now he feels he doesn't need him anymore! Hence the change in tactics! I personally feel that James is the biggest game player and we haven't seen much of the real James! Is Jenna going to show James up for the manipulator that he really is, especially how he saved Janice when he has said he knew Chloe would have saved her!
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:37
catt
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So after Natasha suggested that James moved beds he responded with "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". So James is playing Austin? If so you can call me another former James fan. I've met James before and he was great, so I automatically voted to save him when I could. But these past few days have put me off of him.
I think he was struggling to defend his friendship to natasha who was pushing him on the point of austin not treating james well. I feel he was justifying his connection (falsely) with that well worn phrase. I think he cares for him a lot.
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:38
What name??
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IMO he will get away with anything as he is good looking.
Of course he can. And this is hardly a shocker. Isn't that what he tried with Farah and Jenna. It's why Farah called him fake.
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:39
Salv*
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A bonus, not a love potion.
Ah you got me type them three hms names and it's put a downer on my Sunday. Why?
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:42
MACTOWIN
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Of course he can. And this is hardly a shocker. Isn't that what he tried with Farah and Jenna. It's why Farah called him fake.
Yep when Farrah gave him the Rubber Ear he never forgave her It was bad for his ego.
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:42
Salv*
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Surely if James was using Austin he woukd be licking his ass as Austin was also in the Top 4.

Everything James is getting at is right. He may have ignored it at first but after a month you're bound to get more annoyed with people. Yeah ok maybe James could come across as being 'preachy' but I really do think it's coming from his heart.

Surely James would b know how bad he'd look if he dropped Austin.

I think its an annoyance thing now. Everything turns annoying. I like to think they didn't nom each other.
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:42
Darcyprincess
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I can't think of any other explanation for that comment, whatever the context
E
James sees Austin as 'the enemy' and his friendship is merely tactical

What a blagger he is
Yes I think James is a blagger, just like he was on the Apprentice!
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Old 20-09-2015, 20:47
patsylimerick
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You've had it!

I'm not going to write out the entire HL spoilers! I've no doubt you may see it another way which is why I suggested you look into the context yourself, particularly as you forming an opinion off the back of my opinion would be ridiculous. Pretty simple.



You keep saying this but the only people I ever see that mention James' appearance are the posters who dislike him and use it as a reason to find him fake etc.

I think it's a lazy argument, personally.
I don't know that it is, in the case of James. The Austin/James relationship lit up this board for the first couple of days; and that's when people's opinions of people are firmly set. For instance, I haven't liked Austin or Natasha since because of how quickly jumped on the blood they smelled in the air, pinning Farrah as the 'hate figure' and laying down their bets.

Re James, in general I find him drippy, dim and dull. For anyone with any doubts, the 'someone called my grandfather' speech last night was so pathetic that it should have opened their eyes.

If it didn't, what the hell CAN it be other than his looks?

edited to add: And the 'poor fragile girl' rant in the bath really put the tin hat on it.
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Old 20-09-2015, 21:00
Mrs Checks
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If it didn't, what the hell CAN it be other than his looks?

edited to add: And the 'poor fragile girl' rant in the bath really put the tin hat on it.
Well, have you not considered that maybe other people have a different take on events to you?

I don't disagree that James is dim in terms of lack of general knowledge (posted this a few times before), but your other points I see very differently.

Although his grandfather speech was cheesy, I did get where he was coming from because I had a similar situation, and I also feel the same level of discomfort that he seems to feel at how Austin has treated Janice. And Chloe, for that matter.

I also agree with him that Chloe is fragile. I don't buy the 'she has Stevi' argument because, in my opinion, Stevi is part of her problem. I have sympathy for alcoholics (any addicts) and, although Chloe clearly makes a lot of terrible decisions and makes things harder for herself, I do believe she is troubled and needs Janice in there.

I think it's a shame to come to the assumption that it's James' looks that are the reason he has support, because there are plenty of posts on this forum where his supporters are clearly stating their reasons for supporting him, and they don't involve his appearance. I think it's unfair not to take their posts at face value, even if you don't agree.

If we all thought the same way, the world would be a very boring place!
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Old 20-09-2015, 21:16
hisdogspot
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I also agree with him that Chloe is fragile. I don't buy the 'she has Stevi' argument because, in my opinion, Stevi is part of her problem. I have sympathy for alcoholics (any addicts) and, although Chloe clearly makes a lot of terrible decisions and makes things harder for herself, I do believe she is troubled and needs Janice in there.
Well do you 'buy' the fact that James saving Janice for 'poor vulnerable' Chloe was completely unnecessary, given that Stevi and Chloe would have saved her anyway ?

Do you buy that James knew he didn't need to save Janice for Chloe because she would do that herself ?

And do you buy that he must, therefore, have had another ( unexpressed ) reason for saving Janice ... one that was, perhaps, more self-serving ?
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Old 20-09-2015, 21:23
Mrs Checks
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Well do you 'buy' the fact that James saving Janice for 'poor vulnerable' Chloe was completely unnecessary, given that Stevi and Chloe would have saved her anyway ?

Do you buy that James knew he didn't need to save Janice for Chloe because she would do that herself ?

And do you buy that he must, therefore, have had another ( unexpressed ) reason for saving Janice ... one that was, perhaps, more self-serving ?
We know he did what he did to ensure that Farrah went - he's basically said that so I don't think anyone is denying it.

However, I also still believe that he does have some interest in protecting the feelings of others, and does believe that Chloe is vulnerable. I don't subscribe to the 'it's all black and white' theory that some seem to.

It's perfectly possible to have multiple reasons or motivations for doing something. You can make a decision based on both your own AND others' interests.

I think James, while being a bit dim in the day-to-day sense, is quite sharp in terms of emotions, reading people and decision making.
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Old 20-09-2015, 21:24
SULLA
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So after Natasha suggested that James moved beds he responded with "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". So James is playing Austin? If so you can call me another former James fan. I've met James before and he was great, so I automatically voted to save him when I could. But these past few days have put me off of him.
James is a gameplayer he's got everyone in the palm of his hands
It's a game. It's quite useful to be a gameplayer
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Old 20-09-2015, 22:10
sammyvan
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Perhaps I shouldn't venture an opinion here, as I have not given this years CBB my undivided attention and tend to F/F through many of the highlights.
However, IMO James may be good looking, should one like that rather weak look, but as opposed to being a game player he is more of a user. The other housemates are his chess pieces, to be used to his advantage.
Austin was someone I originally disliked, but at least he appears true to himself.
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Old 20-09-2015, 22:21
tmj
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I don't know that it is, in the case of James. The Austin/James relationship lit up this board for the first couple of days; and that's when people's opinions of people are firmly set. For instance, I haven't liked Austin or Natasha since because of how quickly jumped on the blood they smelled in the air, pinning Farrah as the 'hate figure' and laying down their bets.

Re James, in general I find him drippy, dim and dull. For anyone with any doubts, the 'someone called my grandfather' speech last night was so pathetic that it should have opened their eyes.

If it didn't, what the hell CAN it be other than his looks?

edited to add: And the 'poor fragile girl' rant in the bath really put the tin hat on it.
Shocking isn't it how people are so blind to it!
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Old 20-09-2015, 22:45
patsylimerick
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Well, have you not considered that maybe other people have a different take on events to you?

I don't disagree that James is dim in terms of lack of general knowledge (posted this a few times before), but your other points I see very differently.

Although his grandfather speech was cheesy, I did get where he was coming from because I had a similar situation, and I also feel the same level of discomfort that he seems to feel at how Austin has treated Janice. And Chloe, for that matter.

I also agree with him that Chloe is fragile. I don't buy the 'she has Stevi' argument because, in my opinion, Stevi is part of her problem. I have sympathy for alcoholics (any addicts) and, although Chloe clearly makes a lot of terrible decisions and makes things harder for herself, I do believe she is troubled and needs Janice in there.

I think it's a shame to come to the assumption that it's James' looks that are the reason he has support, because there are plenty of posts on this forum where his supporters are clearly stating their reasons for supporting him, and they don't involve his appearance. I think it's unfair not to take their posts at face value, even if you don't agree.

If we all thought the same way, the world would be a very boring place!
None of that explains why he's so well liked, though, does it? Which was what I was responding to. The suggestion that the 'he's a good looking guy' was a lazy argument and that, in this case, I don't think it is. He's good-looking, for me, in the way that Anthony was. Quite soft and bland and 'pretty' and blah.

I think everyone knows that James knew that Chloe would pick Janice. The speeches I referred to preceded his acknowledging this and refer to his obstinate refusal to acknowledge the valid point that Jenna and Austin were making. It was inevitable to that Chloe would choose Janice so why on earth did James beat her to the punch? Did he think she'd lose the power of speech? It makes absolutely no sense other than as an opportunity to grand-stand as some kind of hero.
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Old 20-09-2015, 22:47
patsylimerick
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We know he did what he did to ensure that Farrah went - he's basically said that so I don't think anyone is denying it.

However, I also still believe that he does have some interest in protecting the feelings of others, and does believe that Chloe is vulnerable. I don't subscribe to the 'it's all black and white' theory that some seem to.

It's perfectly possible to have multiple reasons or motivations for doing something. You can make a decision based on both your own AND others' interests.

I think James, while being a bit dim in the day-to-day sense, is quite sharp in terms of emotions, reading people and decision making.

Well James did - quite forcefully - with the pathetic 'someone called my grandfather' and 'vulnerable young girl' speeches.
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Old 20-09-2015, 22:53
erin_p
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Surely if James was using Austin he woukd be licking his ass as Austin was also in the Top 4.

Everything James is getting at is right. He may have ignored it at first but after a month you're bound to get more annoyed with people. Yeah ok maybe James could come across as being 'preachy' but I really do think it's coming from his heart.

Surely James would b know how bad he'd look if he dropped Austin.

I think its an annoyance thing now. Everything turns annoying. I like to think they didn't nom each other.
Not really, this is the end and he is going for the win... Austin is now his rival and he also doesn't need Austin now , he's at the end and in the top 4 (confirmed on Friday) . No Austin and James had no story line ... James needed a romance or a bromance for airtime but it's the end of the show and so...the end of Austin .
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Old 20-09-2015, 22:55
Mrs Checks
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None of that explains why he's so well liked, though, does it?.
But it does.

As I said, there are plenty of posts from supporters of James that describe the behaviours/traits of his which they admire and support - that is your explanation for why he is well liked right there!

Yet, despite this, you still feel it has something to do with his appearance, which pretty much no supporters have mentioned.

I'm really sorry but I don't understand that logic.
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Old 20-09-2015, 22:55
trevor tiger
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Perhaps I shouldn't venture an opinion here, as I have not given this years CBB my undivided attention and tend to F/F through many of the highlights.
However, IMO James may be good looking, should one like that rather weak look, but as opposed to being a game player he is more of a user. The other housemates are his chess pieces, to be used to his advantage.
Austin was someone I originally disliked, but at least he appears true to himself.
Well I am watching slightly more closely than you but still feel you have described James the most aptly on here

He told Natasha 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer' which at least explained why he keeps trying to hug and kiss and bathe with Austin whilst also taking every opportunity to put him down and point out his failings. But when I heard him say to Austin at the end of the show that he was the only one in the House that understood him and had his back I realised just how seriously Machiavellian the guy is Wow
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