Yes i know what you mean. Do you remember the posthumous witch hunt they did on Rock Hudson?

Terryfying to think that as bad as it was in the late 80s because of AIDS, it was even worse only 20 years earlier.

People of my parents age really have lived completely different lives with virtually each decade they've been in - from the Was, rationing, getting TV, the advent of cheap flights so travelling aborad, now the internet age and how we communicate not to mention society changes re race, gender politics and sexuality not to mention going from a god fearing to pretty much secular society with the differences that has made to sex before marriage, contraception and divorce.

I don't feel the need for it to be clarified.

I' be heard of this so- called therapy ( I think i first came across it in the film Far From Heaven which was set in the US in the 50s) but I didn' t realise they used it in prisons. Does anyone know when that ceased?

I don' t remember about Rock Hudson! Did he get a similar treatment? I think Freddie always stuck in my mind, because they seemed like vultures waiting for the poor man to die, and if I remember correctly there was a fair amount of indignation because he wasn' t playing their game and was protecting his privacy and being protected.

Yes, my Mum and Dad shared toilets with other families, didn' t have tvsleft school at 15 and went straight into jobs! But if my Mum had gone into the police like my Dad she would have been a WPC. and paid peanuts. Although she might not have had to leave her job when she started a family..., or run the risk that if my Dad had abused her( he didn' t) she couldn' t fling him out because it was his name on the lease, as the Head of the Household. Yep, many things have changed fr the better over a generation. Thank goodness.

Well nobody knew what Hudson had until after he died but he was vilified after death because he had worked on Dynasty, after his diagnosis without declaring it and even (shock, horror) shared a screen kiss with Linda Evans. They then spent months pestering her saying she'd contracted AIDS from it, that co-stars were refusing to eat with her during breaks and similar rubbish.

He has five brothers and two sisters but you would have to move to Hong Kong

Do you think he should have told his co star? I imagine AIDS wasn't widely known how to get it? Or was it?

Thats quite a big family

Yes the parents are unusual for Chinese, but not so unusual for the richer set in Hong Kong

People with accurate knowledge knew it couldn't be passed on through saliva even back then. And stage kisses don't even involve proper mouth to mouth contact so there was no way Evans was in any danger.

Given that, and the prejudice he would have faced by disclosing his diagnosis, i don't think he was under any moral obligation to speak up.

ETA - of course some screen kisses are full, open mouthed jobs but dynasty didn't tend to do that and if you watch the scene, you will see that his lips are completely closed and he is actually kissing her to the side of her mouth, so she was in no danger at all.

Thanks. I was worried you might think I was being rude.

Oh not at all.

I'm assuming you're fairly young (not because you seem immature, you don't but because of the questions you're asking) and unless you've made a historical study of it you're unlikely to know what was common knowledge and what wasn't at the time. It was still a very 'new' disease.

And closer to home, the huge outcry that accompanied early gay storylines in EastEnders in the late 1980s. There was a huge number of viewer complaints when Barry kissed Colin (on the forehead!) Press campaigns labelled the show 'filth', and dubbed it 'EastBenders'. Further outcries erupted when kisses between Colin and Guido were screened in 1989.

Oh yes I well remember the furore over the peck on the forehead I suppose it was cutting edge at the time but youngsters would think we were lying, or joking with what goes on telly these days, and that;s just Hollyoaks

This thread is fascinating. Obviously much of what's described is absolutely awful, of course it is, but I'm finding it a very interesting read.

Are we sure that Lawrence was full-on gay and not bisexual like Robert is?

Thanks KitKat that means a great deal.


Me to.

I saw the Alan Turning film. The war hero? That was sad if real.

When he was young he had an affair with a man..in the days when it was illegal....that is all...

I haven't seen the fil but Alan Turin was most certainly prosecuted and vilifed for being gay and forced to undergo chemical castration to avoid Prison.

His family quite recently secured a post Humous Pardon for him.

And dot's confusion and then horror that they only had one bed in Barry and Colin's flat which they shared.

She'd just be labeled a bigot now, and of course it was bigotry then as well, but it was rather 'the norm' so not seen as 'wrong'.

Another thing that was rife in the early days of AIDS was the rush for statements to be issued that anybody famous "had not contracted the disease due to homesexual activity or sharing needles". Apparently, the two were seen as equally abhorrant.

If you could 'prove' that you got it via sex with a woman, or a transfusion, that made it 'acceptable' so people felt sorry for you rather than despising you. If you were gay or a drug user, there was a 'well, you reap what you sow" attitude to it.

They haven't specifically said but then how do you confirm for sure.

We know he had an affair, and was apparently in love with Edna's husband

We know he then married a woman, had two children and professes to have loved her, been happy with her and had a 'full' marriage.

He appears to be genuinely interested in Bernice.

Robert alleges that he only got his job because Lawrence fancied him and was jealous when he didn't get him into bed and Chrissie did instead.

We know that when that rent boy came on to him, he said no in circumstances when nobody needed to have found out.

So, who knows. He might just have got married and be courting Bernice because it is what he 'should' be doing whilst actually only being sexually attracted to men and having to 'force' himself with women.

He might be attracted to both.

Edna's husband might just have been a 'phase' (god i hate that expression) when young. A lot of people do experiment or fall in love with a member of the same sex when young but consider themselves to be straight for the rest of their lives.

I'm not sure it really matters in the context of the storyline though. His imprisonment and aversion therapy has made him hate, be ashamed of or be scared of that part of himself and that is the crux of the drama in my opinion.

Chemical castration was involved?

Oh yes. It was the only way he could avoid being sent to Prison.

Really - all I've seen is, he's afraid of prison, undoubtedly because of what happened to him.
I've seen no references in the writing for the character (as yet) that indicate any strong feelings one way or another about his homosexuality / bisexuality / phase (whatever the show wants to define it as)
When he first arrived and had scenes with Edna - he seemed perfectly at ease with himself and even went some way to comfort Edna's guilt.
We had one reference from Robert that alluded to something - but whatever it was, it was never elaborated on by the writers.
I saw no indication that he was remotely "tempted" by Robert's rentboy or shamed by Robert's ploy beyond his fear of being imprisoned.

I would even go as far as to say I've not seen any reaction to Robert's sexuality from Lawrence beyond his anger & disgust that he cheated on his daughter.