I bet you won't . You're a Peter Andre fan and Jay's a potential threat. Now you know he's got a fair amount of previous you'll be watching his performances through "s*d off ringah" tinted glasses. It happens to us all .

I think most people have a problem with it because it seems a bit 'unfair'. If they all had dance experience when they were younger I don't think many people would mind but it's more that you've got the likes of Helen and Georgia who have some dance experience so can probably pick it up more quickly alongside complete novices like Jeremy Vine.

Also Helen's ballet experience is supposed to not put her at a major advantage because it's not Latin or Ballroom yet Darcey became a judge because of her ballet background.

Anyway, I personally don't mind it too much and I get that most celebs now have at least some dance experience. I do like to see someone start as a beginner and grow to be better rather than someone who's just good without any huge improvement.

I think you have to look for the subtext here. It's like Corbyn and the national anthem or Cameron and the dead piggy...many of those making a huge song-and-dance about those issues don't give a toss really but it's an effective stick with which to beat the 'enemy'.

With Strictly or any similar RTV show people invest heavily in their favourites and really want them to win. The objection to previous experience is often more a case of expediency than principle. So what happens is many people conveniently change their minds about how important previous is depending on whether or not their favourites in any particular year have it.

Thing is though, there were people before on Strictly who have had dance training, but weren't that great (Patsy Kensit, Michelle Williams, Penny Lancaster). People only become affronted when someone has had training and is actually talented too.

It does surprise me that the ringah charge attaches to some and not others. It seemed to be highlighted as an issue the year of Denise van Outen because before that a contestant's dance experience was subsumed in the 'some are good and some are not'. Ironically Natalie was explicit about her experience the year after DvO tried to minimise hers. This year I do not perceive any contestant has yet been singled out as the ringah who will wear the thorns for all the others who have similar levels of dance experience.

I was quite anti contestants with dance training but on reflection they bring quality and set a bar for others in the series. So roll on Helen, Jay, Kellie and Peter!

[ddQUOTE=tabithakitten;79866474]I bet you won't . You're a Peter Andre fan and Jay's a potential threat. Now you know he's got a fair amount of previous you'll be watching his performances through "s*d off ringah" tinted glasses. It happens to us all .[/quote]

Moi? How very dare you? Mrs Fair and Neutral me!

psst......Where do I get the Sod off glasses from?

As many in this forum, I don't care about how experienced is one celeb in dancing. For me is the performance, the dancing and the likeability of the celeb as well as the pro they are partnered up with and their chemistry. Some of my favourites have been ringers, some havent.
With DVO it wasn't her ringah status that was off putting, it was her attitude regarding it (the chair) and her pro partner didn't do much to help that perception.

Regarding nerves, I know some of the major stars get sick every single time before going on stage. They are very good but they can not help it some because they know high their own standards are and are terrified of not delivering. I think that applies to Jay.

Choosing here as my first post for two thoughts:

I have no problem with previous dance experience- but I do have a problem celebs with vastly different experience being judged together. I suspect I'm far from alone in this given the propensity of the public to vote for the less skilled dancers. For me the answer would be to judge the dancers based on the skill level with the experienced performers having to provide a more complex routine, solos etc not expected from those starting from scratch.

My problem with Natalie and probably now Jay is not that they are experienced but the need to introduce an 'angle'. I appreciate that the producers have a part to play but personally I think whole 'Natalie can barely walk but will step out and produce a flawless complex dance routine' type of melodrama did her few favours. For me at least the Jay 'crippled by nerves despite all the confident performance videos on YouTube' is a big turn off in a similar vein.

He probably does have some nerves but I suspect it could be being overplayed slightly.

I think the same. He's used to performing in a group, but he has performed in front of very large crowds before and he has had plenty of dance experience. I don't think he's faking the nerves, but I do think there's a touch of needless melodrama.

Do we think there's melodrama from Jay though? I don't! he seems to want to downplay the nerves, it's Tess who gets melodramatic "I can feel him trembling" if no one said anything I doubt we'd even know.

I don't think Jay said anything about being nervous. It was Tess, with her customary tact and sensitivity, that made a big deal of it.

as someone on it takes two said why would his mum get in touch with him over twitter and not phone him about his performance this week. just seems funny.

His mum texted him, he took a capture of the texts and tweeted it.
As this is something my mum could do, this is something it could happen to me.

I find it quite sad that some people r picking out Jay in particular when there are others who have probably had far more previous training than him. As for his nerves, previous posters are right in saying that its Tess who is making a big thing of it. He seems a really nice lad who just wants to get on with it.

I think we have to accept the fact that actors will have had some dance training if they have been to stage school which most of the youngsters have and members of boy bands will have some sort of rhythm. This year there does seem to be more who potentially have had previous training but thats how it goes.

And it's only week 2........

What's funny about the 'just sat on a chair' thing is that there was an interview with DVO this week, in which she talked about losing too much weight in 2001, and one of the reasons she gave for the weight loss was the amount of dancing she was doing at the time, in Chicago!

Pick a story and stick to it, Van Ringah!

Literally does not bother me in the slightest. Nothing in life is totally "fair" so I try not to get too hung up about it anymore. In medalist ballroom dance competitions, if you've trained/competed as a junior then you can still dance in adult competitions at the lowest level, against people who have literally just started dancing. Massively unfair but such is life! If you compete in a sports competition there will be better people and there will be worse people. There will be people who have more money and time to train... it's all "unfair!"

It does seem like the contestants are a bit more open about having danced before this year which I like. I always think of Meryl Davis the olympic ice dancer on DWTS. She had even trained with Derek Hough (a pro on the show) before and talked about it in a vt. More importantly she never complained about things being really really hard or feeling out of her depth. She delivered great dances every week and ended up winning.

I kind of do buy the nerves thing... he doesn't seem like a massively outgoing person and dancing solo on tv in front of millions is pretty different even to dancing onstage in front of thousands. He might also feel the pressure more because he's had dance training - he most likely knows that a week to learn a whole dance style is no time at all. He cares about it more because he clearly has an interest in dancing so would be more crushed if things go awry than someone like Jeremy or Carol who perhaps aren't expecting themselves to totally nail everything.

Of course I could be totally wrong and he's putting on an act - but it just doesn't feel that way to me personally and I think I understand why he might feel like that.

Probably to do with his 'story', his 'journey' the build up in some quarters of him being more nervous than any other contestant , and being quite stiff and awkward in the opening team dance (imo) .Then doing a bit better in his first dance (he is starting to develop).. ...his mum is there crying .Then we discover videos on u tube of him having dancing tuition and dancing quite well, and realize we have been played.

I think he 'feels' the gap between his dancing and Aliona's, and that may be the source of some of the pressure he puts himself under..

I suspect he's his own worst critic.

this is about where i am at with it as well. and tbh, i don't even care if they HAVE studied ballroom and latin. i think the show needs dancers of different levels of experience as well as different potentials, ages etc, i would hate to see a show filled with duffers and/or absolute beginners.

jay's training video looks so much more relaxed and accomplished than his performance last week which felt competent but dull. i feel somewhat alarmed by his nervy gawky adolescent personality as he just makes me feel uncomfortable. it was similar with natalie who was a great dancer but a bit of an oversensitive personality.

The 'nerves' angle may not even be Jay's choice to highlight but being the big focus for a celebrity who performed as a singer and dancer confidently in the past it rings hollow, for me at least. Don't get me wrong, I liked Natalie and her performances but when a dramatic VT is followed by a flawless performance it starts to become a little 'the boy who cried wolf'.

Whilst these type of shows can never be a 'fair' competition, I think holding different performers to individual standards would help at least redress the balance slightly. Jay is a professional performer with years of training, not someone completely out of their depth. I would much rather see them address that & that he should be hitting the mark technically.

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