Originally Posted by Rednell:
“I suspect he's his own worst critic.”
“I suspect he's his own worst critic.”
oh, I don't know - I reckon there's a fair few DS-ers who could challenge his crown
Selective hearing regarding dance experience
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Originally Posted by Nina_Blake:
“Anyway, it doesn't bother me at all when people have previous experience (as long as they don't try and hide it or pretend it makes everything harder for them. I just wish if the media was going to "expose" dancers, they'd be fair and not just single one person out!”
“Anyway, it doesn't bother me at all when people have previous experience (as long as they don't try and hide it or pretend it makes everything harder for them. I just wish if the media was going to "expose" dancers, they'd be fair and not just single one person out!”
My point every year.
Only once have I voted throughout for the 'ringer' and that was Natalie Gunmede. From the beginning she was totally honest about her previous training and made no effort to conceal her experience.
Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“ I'm afraid there was an element of that with Natalie and certainly with Denise Van Outen. .”
“ I'm afraid there was an element of that with Natalie and certainly with Denise Van Outen. .”
I agree with DVO but certainly not with Natalie.
Originally Posted by Nina_Blake:
“I don't really mind, it's interesting to read all of the different things going on. That said, thanks for responding to the original topic. I agree that previous training is fine, as long as it's not majorly played down or made out that the celebrity will have to work *extra hard* to overcome previous dance habits.”
“I don't really mind, it's interesting to read all of the different things going on. That said, thanks for responding to the original topic. I agree that previous training is fine, as long as it's not majorly played down or made out that the celebrity will have to work *extra hard* to overcome previous dance habits.”
DVO justifiably, got a lot of stick for down playing her training and experience but little was mentioned of Caroline Flack's 'previous.' This lady was qualified in musical theatre and apparently, even during the time of her participation on scd, received tips from her old teacher. Add to that her attempted devaluation of the training from Kristina Rihanoff in Dancing on Wheels and you have a prime example of a contestant with something to hide.
Ballet trained celebs are those most likely to maintain they have to forget every they have ever learnt and yet a number of them have made considerable progress in SCD: e.g. Ali Bastion and Cherie Lunghi.
Originally Posted by cate o connor:
“I'll wait to see how it's played out with Jay this week. Sure, it's a whole different ball game to what he's been used to, but I still think his ability has been purposely, massively underplayed. I'm sure they are all nervous, but most of them manage not to make a production of it.”
“I'll wait to see how it's played out with Jay this week. Sure, it's a whole different ball game to what he's been used to, but I still think his ability has been purposely, massively underplayed. I'm sure they are all nervous, but most of them manage not to make a production of it.”
Originally Posted by BMLisa:
“Do we think there's melodrama from Jay though? I don't! he seems to want to downplay the nerves, it's Tess who gets melodramatic "I can feel him trembling" if no one said anything I doubt we'd even know.”
“Do we think there's melodrama from Jay though? I don't! he seems to want to downplay the nerves, it's Tess who gets melodramatic "I can feel him trembling" if no one said anything I doubt we'd even know.”
Jay has been honest about his training - so just as I did with Natalie Gunmede if Jay performs well he'll get my vote; as for his nerves I didn't realise he could count acting amongst his many other talents.
Originally Posted by sidsgirl:
“Probably to do with his 'story', his 'journey' the build up in some quarters of him being more nervous than any other contestant , and being quite stiff and awkward in the opening team dance (imo) .Then doing a bit better in his first dance (he is starting to develop).. ...his mum is there crying
.Then we discover videos on u tube of him having dancing tuition and dancing quite well, and realize we have been played.
”
“Probably to do with his 'story', his 'journey' the build up in some quarters of him being more nervous than any other contestant , and being quite stiff and awkward in the opening team dance (imo) .Then doing a bit better in his first dance (he is starting to develop).. ...his mum is there crying
.Then we discover videos on u tube of him having dancing tuition and dancing quite well, and realize we have been played.”
I don't feel I've been played at all. He readily acknowledges his previous If he's faking his nerves he must be in line for an Oscar.
What with all the controversy over Jay, Georgia and Helen seem to be slipping under the radar.
Originally Posted by dancingbearbear:
“oh, I don't know - I reckon there's a fair few DS-ers who could challenge his crown”
“oh, I don't know - I reckon there's a fair few DS-ers who could challenge his crown
”
Fair point.
I don't think Jay is acting. It is quite believable that he is nervous.
It is difficult to establish previous dance experience for each of the celebs. There is what is down on paper (more likely to be formallly documented for actors and all round entertainers seeking work) and what isn't. Also there is the quality of the experience. 5 months in a ballroom group class may not necessarily be a good quality experience. Depends on who is teaching.
I don't mind previous dance experience. I think it is a significant advantage though and I get a bit annoyed when someone has that head start but still doesn't bother to learn proper technique. Lots of the females, in particular, will display nice posture but still clomp down on the balls of their feet in ballroom, no matter what the step is, instead of applying proper footwork. So as long as the celeb commits to learning each dance properly rather than relying on their already acquired skills to jazz hand it out, it is ok by me.
It is difficult to establish previous dance experience for each of the celebs. There is what is down on paper (more likely to be formallly documented for actors and all round entertainers seeking work) and what isn't. Also there is the quality of the experience. 5 months in a ballroom group class may not necessarily be a good quality experience. Depends on who is teaching.
I don't mind previous dance experience. I think it is a significant advantage though and I get a bit annoyed when someone has that head start but still doesn't bother to learn proper technique. Lots of the females, in particular, will display nice posture but still clomp down on the balls of their feet in ballroom, no matter what the step is, instead of applying proper footwork. So as long as the celeb commits to learning each dance properly rather than relying on their already acquired skills to jazz hand it out, it is ok by me.
Originally Posted by sidsgirl:
“Probably to do with his 'story', his 'journey' the build up in some quarters of him being more nervous than any other contestant , and being quite stiff and awkward in the opening team dance (imo) .Then doing a bit better in his first dance (he is starting to develop).. ...his mum is there crying.Then we discover videos on u tube of him having dancing tuition and dancing quite well, and realize we have been played.”
“Probably to do with his 'story', his 'journey' the build up in some quarters of him being more nervous than any other contestant , and being quite stiff and awkward in the opening team dance (imo) .Then doing a bit better in his first dance (he is starting to develop).. ...his mum is there crying
.Then we discover videos on u tube of him having dancing tuition and dancing quite well, and realize we have been played.”
We didn't 'discover' his YouTube videos - they were freely available and being talked about before the launch show. They are the reason his twitchy, wooden performance in the opening group dance was a bit of a shock.
Not only that, his past schooling is freely admitted and listed on his Strictly bio. I'm really finding it hard to understand why it's suddenly been decided his training has been 'hidden'? As far as the nerves thing goes Daniel - a performer with way more years experience than Jay has admitted to being scared silly last weekend. Is he shamming as well or is it just that stepping out to perform as 'you' in front of millions where they are going to be asked to vote for you is enough to give anyone the jitters?
It does surprise me at times when people talk about celebs who've had previous dance training, Kara, Natalie, Denise, etc are frequently mentioned, but no one seems to name Jill Halfpenny, who won with Darren Bennett. Jill hadn't just learnt contemporary, etc., but there were photos of her in a couple of magazines dancing a ballroom competition. Admittedly she was young at the time.
As for the current crop of celebs; it is unlikely that any of today's singers or actors have had no dance training of some kind. Very few get acting jobs without some prior training, and most of those schools include dance as part of the curriculum. The main benefit of prior dance training will be poise, balance, and core strength.
As for the current crop of celebs; it is unlikely that any of today's singers or actors have had no dance training of some kind. Very few get acting jobs without some prior training, and most of those schools include dance as part of the curriculum. The main benefit of prior dance training will be poise, balance, and core strength.
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“It does surprise me at times when people talk about celebs who've had previous dance training, Kara, Natalie, Denise, etc are frequently mentioned, but no one seems to name Jill Halfpenny, who won with Darren Bennett. Jill hadn't just learnt contemporary, etc., but there were photos of her in a couple of magazines dancing a ballroom competition. Admittedly she was young at the time.
As for the current crop of celebs; it is unlikely that any of today's singers or actors have had no dance training of some kind. Very few get acting jobs without some prior training, and most of those schools include dance as part of the curriculum. The main benefit of prior dance training will be poise, balance, and core strength.”
“It does surprise me at times when people talk about celebs who've had previous dance training, Kara, Natalie, Denise, etc are frequently mentioned, but no one seems to name Jill Halfpenny, who won with Darren Bennett. Jill hadn't just learnt contemporary, etc., but there were photos of her in a couple of magazines dancing a ballroom competition. Admittedly she was young at the time.
As for the current crop of celebs; it is unlikely that any of today's singers or actors have had no dance training of some kind. Very few get acting jobs without some prior training, and most of those schools include dance as part of the curriculum. The main benefit of prior dance training will be poise, balance, and core strength.”
The first time I can really remember it being a 'thing' was with Zoe Ball. I think she had been having lessons after agreeing to the show but before the actual show training started and this was seen a sneaky, unfair advantage. Emma Bunton took a lot of flak as well - probably just a coincidence that they were both up against popular sportsmen
There were mutterings about Claire Sweeny way back in the first series, but as she was dumped out over Chris Parker it all seemed a bit irrelevant
Originally Posted by aggs:
“We didn't 'discover' his YouTube videos - they were freely available and being talked about before the launch show. They are the reason his twitchy, wooden performance in the opening group dance was a bit of a shock.
Not only that, his past schooling is freely admitted and listed on his Strictly bio. I'm really finding it hard to understand why it's suddenly been decided his training has been 'hidden'? As far as the nerves thing goes Daniel - a performer with way more years experience than Jay has admitted to being scared silly last weekend. Is he shamming as well or is it just that stepping out to perform as 'you' in front of millions where they are going to be asked to vote for you is enough to give anyone the jitters?”
“We didn't 'discover' his YouTube videos - they were freely available and being talked about before the launch show. They are the reason his twitchy, wooden performance in the opening group dance was a bit of a shock.
Not only that, his past schooling is freely admitted and listed on his Strictly bio. I'm really finding it hard to understand why it's suddenly been decided his training has been 'hidden'? As far as the nerves thing goes Daniel - a performer with way more years experience than Jay has admitted to being scared silly last weekend. Is he shamming as well or is it just that stepping out to perform as 'you' in front of millions where they are going to be asked to vote for you is enough to give anyone the jitters?”
Great post aggs
I don't think anyone's 'previous' is being kept hidden this year.
Originally Posted by Ignazio:
“What with all the controversy over Jay, Georgia and Helen seem to be slipping under the radar.”
“What with all the controversy over Jay, Georgia and Helen seem to be slipping under the radar.”
Yeah, Zoe didn't even mention the ballet training yesterday on ITT
The panic from the Jay fans is amusing though
Most people would take a bag of popcorn and sit down to watch Daniel's dance tonight for instance, but I find this panic much funnier to watch.
The most hilarious one I found on another thread (or even this one) is that his mum texted him and NOT send him a twitter message which is totally different (in either event the message itself became public through Jay himself, but it was NOT a twitter message
).Just relax, I am sure he will score at least 30 points tonight and starts his journey as frontrunner. This must have been what would have happened back in the day if there had popped up a secret dance video with Harry (both also with the same pro).
I don't think it's the Jay fans doing the majority of the panicking, somehow ...
(And wasn't that message debate a reply to a NotJayFan wondering why his mum had publically messaged him and not done it privately?)
(And wasn't that message debate a reply to a NotJayFan wondering why his mum had publically messaged him and not done it privately?)
Originally Posted by aggs:
“We didn't 'discover' his YouTube videos - they were freely available and being talked about before the launch show. They are the reason his twitchy, wooden performance in the opening group dance was a bit of a shock.
Not only that, his past schooling is freely admitted and listed on his Strictly bio. I'm really finding it hard to understand why it's suddenly been decided his training has been 'hidden'? As far as the nerves thing goes Daniel - a performer with way more years experience than Jay has admitted to being scared silly last weekend. Is he shamming as well or is it just that stepping out to perform as 'you' in front of millions where they are going to be asked to vote for you is enough to give anyone the jitters?”
“We didn't 'discover' his YouTube videos - they were freely available and being talked about before the launch show. They are the reason his twitchy, wooden performance in the opening group dance was a bit of a shock.
Not only that, his past schooling is freely admitted and listed on his Strictly bio. I'm really finding it hard to understand why it's suddenly been decided his training has been 'hidden'? As far as the nerves thing goes Daniel - a performer with way more years experience than Jay has admitted to being scared silly last weekend. Is he shamming as well or is it just that stepping out to perform as 'you' in front of millions where they are going to be asked to vote for you is enough to give anyone the jitters?”
I think there's a world of difference in being someone who performs in their own discipline e.g. as a singer or TV broadcaster and then being asked to learn and perform as a dancer. The same would apply if a dancer was asked to learn to be an opera singer or to play the piano.
It's probably less to do with the number of people watching and more to do with stepping completely out of one's personal comfort zone.
I think everyone who becomes involved in something like Strictly is likely to feel nervous. It's human nature and I find nothing surprising in it at all - no matter who they are or what they do in their "day job".
Originally Posted by Sherlock_Holmes:
“Yeah, Zoe didn't even mention the ballet training yesterday on ITT
The panic from the Jay fans is amusing though
Most people would take a bag of popcorn and sit down to watch Daniel's dance tonight for instance, but I find this panic much funnier to watch.
The most hilarious one I found on another thread (or even this one) is that his mum texted him and NOT send him a twitter message which is totally different (in either event the message itself became public through Jay himself, but it was NOT a twitter message).
Just relax, I am sure he will score at least 30 points tonight and starts his journey as frontrunner. This must have been what would have happened back in the day if there had popped up a secret dance video with Harry (both also with the same pro).”
“Yeah, Zoe didn't even mention the ballet training yesterday on ITT
The panic from the Jay fans is amusing though
Most people would take a bag of popcorn and sit down to watch Daniel's dance tonight for instance, but I find this panic much funnier to watch.
The most hilarious one I found on another thread (or even this one) is that his mum texted him and NOT send him a twitter message which is totally different (in either event the message itself became public through Jay himself, but it was NOT a twitter message
).Just relax, I am sure he will score at least 30 points tonight and starts his journey as frontrunner. This must have been what would have happened back in the day if there had popped up a secret dance video with Harry (both also with the same pro).”
As I am the poster that explained what happened, I dont really take offence. Am I panicking? Why? Its just a silly TV competition that in the grand scheme means very little to me. To be honest, at the moment I have three favourites, and two spare ones. Jay is one of the formers but Anita, Helen or Georgia or even Anthony could easily take his place in my preference.
However, when someones days something wrong, and attacks someone (anyone) because of that wrong fact, then I find myself in need of correcting it.
90% of this forum is opinion, but lets keep the 10% fact accurate.
Originally Posted by aggs:
“I don't think it's the Jay fans doing the majority of the panicking, somehow ...
(And wasn't that message debate a reply to a NotJayFan wondering why his mum had publically messaged him and not done it privately?)”
“I don't think it's the Jay fans doing the majority of the panicking, somehow ...
(And wasn't that message debate a reply to a NotJayFan wondering why his mum had publically messaged him and not done it privately?)”
Indeed. It was just an explanation of how that person got it wrong, though understandably so.
Last year I said it would be good to mention "previous" on the show and ITT just because not everybody is online. I got a bit of stick, but it is a fact, a lot of folk are not online and I suspect a lot of SCD viewers aren't. I am glad to see they are mentionng it on TV this time anyway, that way at least all the viewers know, whether they like it or not.
People who are not absolute afficianados of dance - I imagine a big proportion of the viewing public - take SCD for what it's worth. Lighthearted entertainment, not something they want to study to degree level. Few will search the Internet for long forgotten videos, but will form their opinions on what they see and hear.
I actually was rooting for young Jay.....I may still. However, I feel that either he or his PR people have been less than honest about his ability, and that has slightly coloured my, and others, view.......something that is our absolute right. The suggestion that I am upset because my "favourite" - I won't deign to dignify it with some of the childish descriptions of said person - may be affected has caused so much hilarity here that I may be in dire need of help from Tena.
I came here to have fun, but I think perhaps it's not for me after all.
I actually was rooting for young Jay.....I may still. However, I feel that either he or his PR people have been less than honest about his ability, and that has slightly coloured my, and others, view.......something that is our absolute right. The suggestion that I am upset because my "favourite" - I won't deign to dignify it with some of the childish descriptions of said person - may be affected has caused so much hilarity here that I may be in dire need of help from Tena.
I came here to have fun, but I think perhaps it's not for me after all.
Originally Posted by aggs:
“The first time I can really remember it being a 'thing' was with Zoe Ball. I think she had been having lessons after agreeing to the show but before the actual show training started and this was seen a sneaky, unfair advantage. Emma Bunton took a lot of flak as well - probably just a coincidence that they were both up against popular sportsmen
There were mutterings about Claire Sweeny way back in the first series, but as she was dumped out over Chris Parker it all seemed a bit irrelevant”
“The first time I can really remember it being a 'thing' was with Zoe Ball. I think she had been having lessons after agreeing to the show but before the actual show training started and this was seen a sneaky, unfair advantage. Emma Bunton took a lot of flak as well - probably just a coincidence that they were both up against popular sportsmen
There were mutterings about Claire Sweeny way back in the first series, but as she was dumped out over Chris Parker it all seemed a bit irrelevant
”
Agreeing to do the show, then getting a few basic lessons before the show starts seems quite sensible to me. They all have the right to do it if they choose. The one I remember most who -allegedly - did this and took it a step too far was Austin Healey. He was asked to do the show, but turned it down for personal reasons, but it was agreed he would do it the following year. He then used that year to take lessons and that would definitely be an unfair advantage. (As I said - allegedly). Not that it did him a lot of good - he started very strong, and didn't improve.
Originally Posted by fatskia:
“I think he 'feels' the gap between his dancing and Aliona's, and that may be the source of some of the pressure he puts himself under..”
“I think he 'feels' the gap between his dancing and Aliona's, and that may be the source of some of the pressure he puts himself under..”
Yeah I could definitely see that being a source for nerves.
Originally Posted by cate o connor:
“People who are not absolute afficianados of dance - I imagine a big proportion of the viewing public - take SCD for what it's worth. Lighthearted entertainment, not something they want to study to degree level. Few will search the Internet for long forgotten videos, but will form their opinions on what they see and hear.
I actually was rooting for young Jay.....I may still. However, I feel that either he or his PR people have been less than honest about his ability, and that has slightly coloured my, and others, view.......something that is our absolute right. The suggestion that I am upset because my "favourite" - I won't deign to dignify it with some of the childish descriptions of said person - may be affected has caused so much hilarity here that I may be in dire need of help from Tena.
I came here to have fun, but I think perhaps it's not for me after all.”
“People who are not absolute afficianados of dance - I imagine a big proportion of the viewing public - take SCD for what it's worth. Lighthearted entertainment, not something they want to study to degree level. Few will search the Internet for long forgotten videos, but will form their opinions on what they see and hear.
I actually was rooting for young Jay.....I may still. However, I feel that either he or his PR people have been less than honest about his ability, and that has slightly coloured my, and others, view.......something that is our absolute right. The suggestion that I am upset because my "favourite" - I won't deign to dignify it with some of the childish descriptions of said person - may be affected has caused so much hilarity here that I may be in dire need of help from Tena.
I came here to have fun, but I think perhaps it's not for me after all.”
Shame on you!
You're supposed to be a Peter Andre fan.Traitor!
[quote=Nicola32;79872456]Shame on you! You're supposed to be a Peter Andre fan.
Traitor!:
I know Nicola, but I didn't quite realise what it entailed! My son is howling with laughter, saying "My mum the groupie!" Good job he didn't see what I got up to in the sixties.
What's even worse, I'm feeling quite protective of Daniel too. Ah, it's all a laugh innit?
You're supposed to be a Peter Andre fan.Traitor!:
I know Nicola, but I didn't quite realise what it entailed! My son is howling with laughter, saying "My mum the groupie!" Good job he didn't see what I got up to in the sixties.
What's even worse, I'm feeling quite protective of Daniel too. Ah, it's all a laugh innit?
I agree with kaycee that it would be sensible to do a bit of swotting up before you embark on the show and so I'd have no problems with celebs taking a few dance lessons beforehand. I'm not fussed about previous experience anyway. I'm more interested in improvement over the course of the series.
Btw here is Daniel O Donnell doing a bit of dancing on stage (a waltz no less, well sort of if you stretch a point ) at around 1:40 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QksnkG3...ature=youtu.be. Before anyone objects, I'm not seriously putting this forward as significant "previous dance experience".
Btw here is Daniel O Donnell doing a bit of dancing on stage (a waltz no less, well sort of if you stretch a point
) at around 1:40 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QksnkG3...ature=youtu.be. Before anyone objects, I'm not seriously putting this forward as significant "previous dance experience".
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“Agreeing to do the show, then getting a few basic lessons before the show starts seems quite sensible to me. They all have the right to do it if they choose. The one I remember most who -allegedly - did this and took it a step too far was Austin Healey. He was asked to do the show, but turned it down for personal reasons, but it was agreed he would do it the following year. He then used that year to take lessons and that would definitely be an unfair advantage. (As I said - allegedly). Not that it did him a lot of good - he started very strong, and didn't improve.”
“Agreeing to do the show, then getting a few basic lessons before the show starts seems quite sensible to me. They all have the right to do it if they choose. The one I remember most who -allegedly - did this and took it a step too far was Austin Healey. He was asked to do the show, but turned it down for personal reasons, but it was agreed he would do it the following year. He then used that year to take lessons and that would definitely be an unfair advantage. (As I said - allegedly). Not that it did him a lot of good - he started very strong, and didn't improve.”
Show's how we see things differently - to me, taking lessons before doing the show (whether for a few weeks or a year) makes absolute sense, shows they are taking it seriously. Far too often the celebs turn up and think they don't need to put any effort in when, in reality, they have a lot to learn in a short space of time.
Tom had massive amounts of prior training, started strong and didn't improve and he won so... [/bitter Austin fanz r us]
Stage school experience or on stage brief choreographed hip-hop style routines learned as a yoof don't bother me . Stage school will prepare them for parts in musicals and will have little bearing on Strictly 'proper' dances . Yes it will give them an ability to dance in time etc, but unless they have an in built aptitude for dance it will really mean nothing much re Strictly .
But Austin doing it for a year before signing up to Strictly was totally cheating because at that point his instructors would have known precisely what styles to focus on and what the judges in Strictly look for .
Jay falls somewhere in between 'Stage School brat' and 'Austin Healy style intense training' . His dance videos show him in full length dance routines and stage performances that are quite professional in content . A somewhat better background than mere Stage school so I'd place him closer to the Austin Healy mode . Disappointing , but there you are .
But Austin doing it for a year before signing up to Strictly was totally cheating because at that point his instructors would have known precisely what styles to focus on and what the judges in Strictly look for .
Jay falls somewhere in between 'Stage School brat' and 'Austin Healy style intense training' . His dance videos show him in full length dance routines and stage performances that are quite professional in content . A somewhat better background than mere Stage school so I'd place him closer to the Austin Healy mode . Disappointing , but there you are .
I have no problem with people having experience as it is nice to have a mixture. My annoyance comes to the front though when the judges then mock someone who hasn't got experience. Last week Jeremy Vine did the best he could and gave it everything and it was fun but was laughed at and given a two by Craig, that's when I start getting annoyed because I can't help thinking well of course A,B,C is better they've got experience. I have never disliked a dancer because they have experience but I think some consideration should be given to those starting from scratch.
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“Interesting. Four "ringhas" and Pdur is not even one of them. Hey ho. *shrugs nochelantly*”
“Interesting. Four "ringhas" and Pdur is not even one of them. Hey ho. *shrugs nochelantly*
”
Perhaps they, like me initially, had no idea who "Pdur" might be.
Originally Posted by aggs:
“The first time I can really remember it being a 'thing' was with Zoe Ball. I think she had been having lessons after agreeing to the show but before the actual show training started and this was seen a sneaky, unfair advantage. Emma Bunton took a lot of flak as well - probably just a coincidence that they were both up against popular sportsmen ....”
“The first time I can really remember it being a 'thing' was with Zoe Ball. I think she had been having lessons after agreeing to the show but before the actual show training started and this was seen a sneaky, unfair advantage. Emma Bunton took a lot of flak as well - probably just a coincidence that they were both up against popular sportsmen
....”
Everything that anyone could think of to use against Zoe Ball seemed to be used. I've never understood why so many people had such a problem with her.
The other one that puzzles me is Lisa Snowdon. What did she ever do that made so many people dislike her?
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