• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • Gadgets
  • Mobile Phones
CMA says Three & O2 merger is a Significant threat to competition
<<
<
3 of 20
>>
>
sethpet
30-10-2015
With the Vodafone / Liberty asset swap not happening, i wonder if liberty might use the virgin media brand to buy the O2 network infrastructure and spectrum.

would help 3o2 with that mbnl/ctil issue
Mr_DB
30-10-2015
What people forget is that Telefonica were having problems running O2, it's only with an exit strategy from the UK market have things picked up a bit.

Also Hutchinson have worked hard with Three, but ultimately as a business they're in it to make money and compete with Vodafone and EE.

As the smallest operator, they've gone through investment stages and growing their customer base, and they've been disruptive. But once your network infrastructure gets to a certain point you have to keep being able to make money, maintain the infrastructure you have and keep investing in new network infrastructure.

The tie-up with O2 will make three roughly equal size networks, all with a lot of capital behind them, and all that have the revenues coming in to keep owners/investors happy, whilst being able to (or having to) compete with each other to ensure they hold onto the market share.

BT are known for not giving two tosses about being competitive unless they really have to be (look at how they have the whole Openreach thing sewn up). Again Vodafone only really competes when it has to...

If you say to Hutchinson that the merger can't go ahead, you're basically saying "we want you to stay as the smallest operator, tough luck.". They're then more likely to look for an exit strategy from the UK market - to just keep investing without the right revenue figures is potentially really bad business.

O2/Telefonica will probably stop investing; Telefonica want out and if they're not getting the cash they expected from a sale then they're probably only going to do what they need to for regulatory requirements.

BT/EE and Vodafone will then just take it easy, nether of them rocking the boat.

None of this is "competitive" - even with four players in the market.

At least O2/Three merging will show Hutchinson that they are allowed to compete on a level playing field, and encourage them to be more disruptive in the UK market. Sure, maybe not as when they were fresh faced and making a name for themselves in the industry - but more so than if they have the deal scuppered.

If they then continue to be a bit disruptive, Vodafone and BT/EE will have their hand forced and play the game....?
clewsy
30-10-2015
How does having three players increase the chance of competition for the customer?

It doesnt. What you will get is more price matching, when the piece goes up, so will the rest. This will be the energy market all over again.

It's not about saying you will be small, its about saying we want a competitive market that works to the favour of the consumer. If three want to sell up afterwards, fair enough. Someone will buy them and well if they don't they either switch it all off and quit or they invest and grow.

Mergers very rarely benefit consumers, usually the only winner is Business at the reduced competition levels.
japaul
30-10-2015
The EC's initial investigation reported today. The broad issues are in the press release below and it will progress to a phase 2 (in-depth) investigation (of which there was zero chance it wouldn't).

However, I think by saying they'll be doing the phase 2, the EC have effectively told the CMA (who applied to take over the investigation) to get stuffed which at least improves the chance we'll see a competent investigation rather than one where the companies run rings around the regulator (as BT have done with the CMA and Ofcom).

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-5956_en.htm
eljmayes
30-10-2015
I'd like to see a fourth entrant if the merger takes place- even if that's Sky being an MVNO in the first instance and then becomes the fourth operator on it's own over time.

Difficult situation as regards to the spectrum allocation from all sides.
david16
31-10-2015
Originally Posted by clewsy:
“How does having three players increase the chance of competition for the customer?

It doesnt. What you will get is more price matching, when the piece goes up, so will the rest. This will be the energy market all over again.

It's not about saying you will be small, its about saying we want a competitive market that works to the favour of the consumer. If three want to sell up afterwards, fair enough. Someone will buy them and well if they don't they either switch it all off and quit or they invest and grow.

Mergers very rarely benefit consumers, usually the only winner is Business at the reduced competition levels.”

And the operators always make it sound as though price matching is great for the consumer when it reality it's the complete opposite as the price inevitably goes up.
david16
31-10-2015
Originally Posted by eljmayes:
“I'd like to see a fourth entrant if the merger takes place- even if that's Sky being an MVNO in the first instance and then becomes the fourth operator on it's own over time.

Difficult situation as regards to the spectrum allocation from all sides.”

Certainly I can't see Virgin mobile being a MVNO of BT.

How many MVNO'S that offer a much cheaper and much more affordable alternative than the main networks are going to fall by the wayside with BT now being a major MNO? Ok most MVNO'S don't offer 4G, but most mobile phone consumers have 3G phones at best anyway so that doesn't really matter for most.

There's already less MVNO'S of Vodafone than there were, and with Sainsbury's also closing down their mobile service in January as well, possibly because they were too cheap for vodafone's liking. These are very worrying times for the uk's mobile phone consumers.

Eventually, the way things are going there will only be 2 or 3 MNO'S, and a few MVNO'S who are all having to charge a lot closer to the rip off full market prices of their MNO's than at present as part of their MVNO contracts with the MNO'S to remain as an MVNO. The consumer loses out.
The Lord Lucan
31-10-2015
Originally Posted by sethpet:
“With the Vodafone / Liberty asset swap not happening, i wonder if liberty might use the virgin media brand to buy the O2 network infrastructure and spectrum.

would help 3o2 with that mbnl/ctil issue”

Or they could buy out 3's part of MBNL and dregs of spectrum for sale.

On a separate note, Imagine a new network just did away with 2G & 3G and started with 4G VOLTE.. We're not there yet I feel but I'd love to see that.
interactiv-uk
31-10-2015
Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan:
“Or they could buy out 3's part of MBNL and dregs of spectrum for sale.

On a separate note, Imagine a new network just did away with 2G & 3G and started with 4G VOLTE.. We're not there yet I feel but I'd love to see that.”

The same as 3 was in 2003 and look how long it took before they turned profit.

Not all operators have the backing of pockets as deep as Hutch had!
enapace
31-10-2015
Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan:
“Or they could buy out 3's part of MBNL and dregs of spectrum for sale.

On a separate note, Imagine a new network just did away with 2G & 3G and started with 4G VOLTE.. We're not there yet I feel but I'd love to see that.”

Honestly I think the 4G VoLTE way is the only way a new network would get enough spectrum compete and have a 2G/3G/4G roaming agreement with someone.

Still think 2x5MHz of 800MHz and 2x10MHz of 2100MHz is least you could feasibly operate a fourth entrant on.

Liberty Global/Virgin has deep enough pockets to make it work so would Sky but not sure if they would want to do.
binary
31-10-2015
Originally Posted by david16:
“Certainly I can't see Virgin mobile being a MVNO of BT.”

The issue of both MVNOs and Virgin Mobile specifically does get some attention in the CMA's preliminary findings regarding the BT+EE deal.

I can imagine it's possible that there might be some undertakings in order to protect Virgin Mobile and allow them continued use of the EE network.
maverickjesus
31-10-2015
Liberty Global buying one of these operators is absolute fantasy, sorry. Just because they couldn't make the Vodafone asset split work at the minute, they aren't going to buy a £10bn millstone preventing themselves from ever being able to do it.

The sad fact is, I think this merger IS anti-competitive, but I have no idea who else could feasibly take on O2. Maybe a big US player like AT&T would be interested? Clutching at straws though...
clewsy
31-10-2015
Of course that is Telefonica's problem.

There will be plenty of buyers, however not at the price they will want. This will be the problem as they would be lining up for a bargain.
japaul
04-12-2015
It looks like the European Commission have now formally told the UK's CMA to take a hike as they have more experience.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-...0TN11820151204
jonmorris
04-12-2015
Should have no problems going through now.
lightspeed2398
04-12-2015
Originally Posted by jonmorris:
“Should have no problems going through now.”

I thought there was that new EU commissioner who didn't want the networks to merge any longer?
Everything Goes
05-12-2015
Originally Posted by lightspeed2398:
“I thought there was that new EU commissioner who didn't want the networks to merge any longer?”

Indeed its a lot less likey it will go through with the EU looking into it. Perhaps Jonmorris isn't aware of the changes at EC level.
jonmorris
05-12-2015
I wasn't aware, no.
MTUK1
05-12-2015
Originally Posted by japaul:
“It looks like the European Commission have now formally told the UK's CMA to take a hike as they have more experience.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-...0TN11820151204”

Nice to see we live in a democracy. Not. The EU should have nothing to do with this.
d123
05-12-2015
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Nice to see we live in a democracy. Not. The EU should have nothing to do with this.”

I'm not sure what living in a democracy has to do with it, but it was always expected that this deal would be investigated by the EU, just like the proposed Danish merger of TeleSonera and Telenor was.
japaul
05-12-2015
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Nice to see we live in a democracy. Not. The EU should have nothing to do with this.”

Even if you leave aside that the Commission are far more likely to do a competent job given the CMA's lack of expertise how is it somehow democratic if left to the CMA?
MTUK1
05-12-2015
Originally Posted by d123:
“I'm not sure what living in a democracy has to do with it, but it was always expected that this deal would be investigated by the EU, just like the proposed Danish merger of TeleSonera and Telenor was.”

It's not that hard. The EU should not have authority over a national government. If they have this power to influence local decisions then each nation in the EU is no longer a democracy.
MTUK1
05-12-2015
Originally Posted by japaul:
“Even if you leave aside that the Commission are far more likely to do a competent job given the CMA's lack of expertise how is it somehow democratic if left to the CMA?”

It's decided by decision makers who work for the elected government of this country. Nobody voted for the EU to have rights to overturn or supersede British laws.
wilt
05-12-2015
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“It's decided by decision makers who work for the elected government of this country. Nobody voted for the EU to have rights to overturn or supersede British laws.”

Given that the CMA is a quango it is no more democratically elected than the EC is.
d123
05-12-2015
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“It's decided by decision makers who work for the elected government of this country. Nobody voted for the EU to have rights to overturn or supersede British laws.”

Why not just say you don't understand the law? You have 2 companies proposing a merger of 2 telecoms networks with the obvious ramifications to competition. One of the companies has operations in the UK, Spain and Germany, the other has operations in the UK, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Ireland.

And yet you still don't understand why it's an EU matter?

Just out of curiosity, you do realise the EU is also an elected government? Or have you never voted in a European election for your local MEP?
<<
<
3 of 20
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map