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Old 02-10-2015, 23:18
jsmith99
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I have a PVR model DMR-HWT230.

A few weeks ago, it developed a fault, and it would record on one tuner only. Following advice from phone support, I set it back to 'Shipping Condition', and this cured the problem.

A week later, it stopped recording. The 'Pause' light just kept flashing. until I pressed 'Stop' after 15 miutes or so. This happened with both timer and instant recordings. Eventually, I tried switching the box off, left it for 10 minutes or so, and switched it on again.

This cured the problem.

However, this is completely unsatisfactory. Suppose this happened just after we'd set off for two weeks' holiday?

So naturally I wrote to Panasonic's Technical Support, asking their advice, and whether this was a known fault.

I first received a reply which was clearly computer generated based on words from my request for assistance. Despite being about a page long, it could be condensed to : "Reset it to Shipping Condition; if that doesn't work take it to one of our engineers"

When I asked for a personal response, from someone who'd actually read my message, the reply was that there was no point in taking it to an engineer because I'd solved the problems.

In fact, I'd twice cured the symptoms - I have no idea what the causes were, or whether the problems will reoccur. Possibly just after I go on holiday.

There was absolutely no attempt to consider the problems, nor to answer my question about whether these are known faults.

So now I have a PVR which is working at the moment, but could have one of these faults reoccur at any time - or a different one develop.
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:47
Chris Frost
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Other than some personal attention, what outcome were you looking for?

I had a quick look at the Amazon reviews on this. On the face of it there's a high-ish proportion of low ratings (20% at two star or lower), and reading through some of the comments it does seem that a few folk have had problems with menu speeds and set-up issues and a few failures. However, as usual with Amazon there's also low ratings for silly stuff such as delivery issues or problems that don't relate directly to the product. However, the 4-star and above ratings are at 70%, so it looks like a decent proportion of seem to get on with the machine okay.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:30
jsmith99
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Other than some personal attention, what outcome were you looking for?............................
I was rather hoping for a reply saying that this was a known issue.

Following that, that it was caused by a fault in the software, which had now been corrected, and downloaded via the internet.

The second choice follow up would be the offer of a repair or replacement.

Not simply "there's no point in taking it to an engineer".

The manufacturer's warranty finishes in December, then there's a further 12 months warranty from John Lewis. So any more problems, and I'll be referring it to JL.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:40
Doghouse Riley
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I was rather hoping for a reply saying that this was a known issue.

Following that, that it was caused by a fault in the software, which had now been corrected, and downloaded via the internet.

The second choice follow up would be the offer of a repair or replacement.

Not simply "there's no point in taking it to an engineer".

The manufacturer's warranty finishes in December, then there's a further 12 months warranty from John Lewis. So any more problems, and I'll be referring it to JL.
Given the time you've had it, I'd have taken it straight back to John Lewis and asked for a replacement, the first time it played up. They'd have given you a new one or a different one of your choice. I've a Humax HDR 2000 with wifi, never been a problem.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:26
skinj
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Given the time you've had it, I'd have taken it straight back to John Lewis and asked for a replacement, the first time it played up. They'd have given you a new one or a different one of your choice. I've a Humax HDR 2000 with wifi, never been a problem.
If it's under warranty, your point of contact is supposed to be the retailer you bought it from. As far as I'm aware Panasonic have no obligation to supply support at all except for maybe offering repair if the retailer goes out of business. A few years ago when the internet sales boom started, JVC customer support line stated very clearly that all queries relating to operation of JVC products should be directed to the supplier.

The supplier is the person that should, from the profits being made from selling the products, be supplying staff & the training to go with it to help their customers with their purchases.

Call John Lewis, ask for help. It is unlikely to replaced but will be repaired under the terms of the 12 month guarantee.
As for reliability on these items, we have sold these hand over fist and had very few problems at all, most of the time it is signal related as we are in a marginal area for the freeview transmissions.
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:32
Doghouse Riley
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Depending on the manufacturer, there is sometimes as part of the contract between the supplier and the retailer, the latter takes all responsibility for repairs.
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:54
skinj
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Depending on the manufacturer, there is sometimes as part of the contract between the supplier and the retailer, the latter takes all responsibility for repairs.
Yeah, Panasonic have a network of Authorised Service Centres that will carry out repair work under the terms of the 12 month guarantee.
They do not supply & are not required to give technical support or answer operation questions about the equipment that the suppliers customers are using.

We supply the tech support to our customers as part of our service to them when they buy the equipment from us. If they bring in something bought from somewhere else we can repair it under guarantee free of charge (or collect if its's a large item) but they will not get free advice on how to use, get the best out of, or install the item. These are chargeable extras that are factored in to the price when we sell an item in the first place or as an extra later on.
The problem with the on-line boom is that the only thing the customer is buying is the product. There is now, in a lot of circumstances, no aftersales support other than repairing under terms of the 12mth guarantee
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Old 03-10-2015, 13:21
oilman
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I was rather hoping for a reply saying that this was a known issue.

Following that, that it was caused by a fault in the software, which had now been corrected, and downloaded via the internet.

The second choice follow up would be the offer of a repair or replacement.

Not simply "there's no point in taking it to an engineer".

The manufacturer's warranty finishes in December, then there's a further 12 months warranty from John Lewis. So any more problems, and I'll be referring it to JL.
John Lewis usually are really helpful. Go to them, and they will probably replace it.
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Old 03-10-2015, 14:16
Chris Frost
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I was rather hoping for a reply saying that this was a known issue.
Are there lots of instances of the same faults occurring then?

Following that, that it was caused by a fault in the software, which had now been corrected, and downloaded via the internet.
Doesn't that presuppose though that (a) the fault is entirely related to the machine and nothing to do with any external influence, and (b) that this happens to have been successfully identified by Panasonic, and (c) there has been time to rewrite the software and beta test it before release?

Sorry for playing Devil's Advocate here but it does come across like you've made your mind up exactly what you want to hear. Unless my Google skills are weak then I'm not seeing the kind of avalanche of other users complaining about the same issues that would indicate something making it in to "known fault" territory. So while I can empathise with your frustration I do wonder if there was even the remotest possibility of Panasonic being able to give you exactly what you wanted to hear.

The second choice follow up would be the offer of a repair or replacement.
As others have said, wouldn't that be down to the supplying dealer to make those kind of offers?
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Old 03-10-2015, 14:18
Nigel Goodwin
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As others have said, wouldn't that be down to the supplying dealer to make those kind of offers?
As it's under JL warranty then he should have contacted them, not the manufacturer, in the first place.
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Old 03-10-2015, 15:13
Tassium
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Often PVRs have terrible software out of the factory, which get's fixed over a period of time.

If Panasonic aren't doing that then I would try and get a different model from John Lewis.

Humax maybe? Look at the reviews first.


With PVRs the latest model is never a good choice.
-----------
On the John Lewis website this model get's 3.4/5, for a PVR that's just too low and indicates issues.

I would be looking for a model that has been out for a couple of years.
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Old 03-10-2015, 15:21
Orbitalzone
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It's unlikely a manufacturer will ever publicly admit to a common known fault unless it's a silly user error type fault (child lock etc)

Admitting their products are inherently faulty will leave them wide open, in fact they'll usually do the complete opposite and deny any issues despite the internet forums having tons of evidence to the contrary.

Anyway, under warrantee, return to supplier. Job done.
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:32
jsmith99
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I did rather summarise in the OP. I contacted John Lewis first, who referred me to Panasonic Technical Support. It was they who told me to reset it to Shipping Condition.

Chris Frost : I have no idea whether it's a common problem; that's why I asked Panasonic the question.

About Humax : I bought a Humax 2000T before this machine. This showed immediate faults, such as no sound in certain circumstances, only curable by switching the power off and on. Since recording taking place was one of the circumstances, this just stopped the recording. So I took it back to John Lewis for a full refund - and bought the Panasonic.

Anyway, I was mainly hoping that someone else might have had similar faults and resolved them. My next step is to talk to John Lewis again.

Thanks for all the replies.
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:44
Doghouse Riley
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I did rather summarise in the OP. I contacted John Lewis first, who referred me to Panasonic Technical Support. It was they who told me to reset it to Shipping Condition.

Chris Frost : I have no idea whether it's a common problem; that's why I asked Panasonic the question.

About Humax : I bought a Humax 2000T before this machine. This showed immediate faults, such as no sound in certain circumstances, only curable by switching the power off and on. Since recording taking place was one of the circumstances, this just stopped the recording. So I took it back to John Lewis for a full refund - and bought the Panasonic.

Anyway, I was mainly hoping that someone else might have had similar faults and resolved them. My next step is to talk to John Lewis again.

Thanks for all the replies.
I think that's just the luck of the draw.
My first Humax had a noisy hard drive, so I took it back and had it changed. I had a problem with the wifi connection, but that was down to the incorrect configuration of the ports on my Virgin + box under the TV in another room.
But Virgin sorted that out over the phone. I get a pretty constant 54Mbps, despite the fact that the hub is hidden behind our lounge thermal lined curtains as my wife doesn't like the lights winking at her when she's watching the TV in that room.

It's worked perfectly since. I've a library of over 30 films and another dozen programmes saved and I've only used up about 17% of its recording capacity.
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:50
skinj
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On the John Lewis website this model get's 3.4/5, for a PVR that's just too low and indicates issues.
I would be looking for a model that has been out for a couple of years.
The reasons for some of the low marks are daft though.
1* for a discounted machine that had an unknown pin-number previously entered. Nothing to do with quality of machine.
2* because the machine doesn't have all the catch up services available.
Firstly it's a recorder so just record the damn things when they are on, secondly if it didn't claim to have the services, why are people complaining after they bought it?
3* because it won't let the user record 2 and watch a third station. Of course it won't, it's not designed to do so, never claimed to do so! Another instance of not researching a purchase before buying.

The only genuinely low score I could see was in reference to the interface being "clunky" & "confusing". Don't see it myself but that is a legitimate reason for a low score.

if you remove the stupid comments the average star rating rises quite a bit, as one person replies "it's like me giving a lamb chop a bad rating because I don't like lamb"!

From our side of the fence we have had far more issues with Humax boxes than any of the Panasonic recorders (except the very first one about 10 years ago, that was awful and dumped very quickly by Panasonic!)
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:53
skinj
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I did rather summarise in the OP. I contacted John Lewis first, who referred me to Panasonic Technical Support. It was they who told me to reset it to Shipping Condition.

Chris Frost : I have no idea whether it's a common problem; that's why I asked Panasonic the question.

About Humax : I bought a Humax 2000T before this machine. This showed immediate faults, such as no sound in certain circumstances, only curable by switching the power off and on. Since recording taking place was one of the circumstances, this just stopped the recording. So I took it back to John Lewis for a full refund - and bought the Panasonic.

Anyway, I was mainly hoping that someone else might have had similar faults and resolved them. My next step is to talk to John Lewis again.

Thanks for all the replies.
JL should have been the people looking after you from day one. They simply passed the buck the wrong way to start with. take it back to them and ask them to fix it (if it has a problem). A lot of the time the not recording problems are caused by signal/epg errors out of the control of Panasonic or other PVR makers.
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Old 04-10-2015, 10:17
Chris Frost
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As it's under JL warranty then he should have contacted them, not the manufacturer, in the first place.
Er.. that's what I said, isn't it....

As others have said, wouldn't that be down to the supplying dealer to make those kind of offers?
_______________

I was using rather circumspect language in the whole reply because I had a feeling that we were only seeing part of the story. As it happens that turns out to be the case. jsmith99 did say he'd rather summarised in the OP. It's understandable when threads are started to bash a manufacturer or retailer. There's some frustration on the customer's part. But whether that's entirely 100% justified is another question. There's also the issue of the other party not having a right of reply because they're not aware of the thread or that to try and reply to all such threads would simply be impractical, so what we inevitably have a a one-sided story. None of that takes anything away from the justification that anyone starting such a thread feels. Certainly there are times when manufacturers definitely have to called to account because something is very wrong and it needs sorting. But that's not the same as giving the OP carte blanche.

Some of us here are or have been "in the trade". For my own part I have been in retail, distribution and blue chip manufacturing, so I have seen things like this from all sides.
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Old 04-10-2015, 23:41
jsmith99
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I rang John Lewis Customer Services this afternoon. After explaining everything, the young lady told me I should speak to Technical Support. This despite my saying that I felt it was a Sale of Goods Act problem (or whatever the new legislation is called) rather than a technical one.

In the end, she agreed to pass my details to Tech Support, which would give them time to consider the issue, and then contact me. I'm still awaiting their call.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:59
anthony david
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As as a long standing customer of JL who has on rare occasions had problems with equipment under warranty I have never been asked to contact a manufacture's support department. I have spoken to JL's own technical support but that is all. They have always dealt with matters themselves, either by replacement if the item was very new or by repair.
They have a very good reputation which they guard jealously, and is why they have loyal customers.

Like others on this thread, I think there is something that we are not being told.
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:37
jsmith99
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All I can say is that JL Tech Support told me to contact Panasonic Tech support. I even have the number they provided in front of me, on a note I made at the time and keep with the delivery note.

And obviously there are things you're not being told, such as the results of the six sets of recordings I set up to try to establish the actual fault in the first case, or the four in the second.

There is an earlier thread in which I detailed the first problem at the time it happened, but I had no replies.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2103195
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Old 05-10-2015, 13:25
skinj
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I rang John Lewis Customer Services this afternoon. After explaining everything, the young lady told me I should speak to Technical Support. This despite my saying that I felt it was a Sale of Goods Act problem (or whatever the new legislation is called) rather than a technical one.

In the end, she agreed to pass my details to Tech Support, which would give them time to consider the issue, and then contact me. I'm still awaiting their call.
It's not a "Sale Of Goods Act" problem!
It's a problem, glitch, fault with the machine that should & I have no doubt will be sorted out under the normal 12mth guarantee terms and conditions.
If you have repeated issues with the machine (as in it's repaired and then fails again) then you may have a claim under the SOGA. Or if this known to be an inherent fault you could have a claim. Based on the number we've sold and the number of issues we've had, I highly doubt it could be this. Nor has the machine had the fault since it was purchased, it has recently developed the issue.
The shop & the manufacturer have the right to repair this machine in a timely manor under the guarantee terms & conditions.
Take the unit back to JLP, tell them it has a problem, get them to send it off for repair/investigation. Leave all the failed recordings on the planner/HDD so they have something to reference & let them sort it out.
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Old 05-10-2015, 23:16
jsmith99
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That's more or less what I've agreed with JL, should it develop another fault. And, yes, I'll leave the "Failed Recording" entries on the appropriate screen.
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