that was an odd performance she put in tonight but i think she has great potential, and i think she is a likeable personality. have never cared about the whole 'ringer' bit.
Helen Is A Ringer Comments.
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Originally Posted by natalian:
“You are the one who is being silly. As soon as Len mentioned "I bet you did a lot of ballet when you were young" tonight it was patently obvious that people would be talking about Helen as a 'ringer' on here tonight. The same is true of last week's VT when they showed Aljaz having to correct her feet positions in the waltz because they were balletic. If you couldn't work that out for yourself without undertaking a scientific study then you obviously haven't been watching Strictly for very long.”
“You are the one who is being silly. As soon as Len mentioned "I bet you did a lot of ballet when you were young" tonight it was patently obvious that people would be talking about Helen as a 'ringer' on here tonight. The same is true of last week's VT when they showed Aljaz having to correct her feet positions in the waltz because they were balletic. If you couldn't work that out for yourself without undertaking a scientific study then you obviously haven't been watching Strictly for very long.”
I'm not sure why the judges and the DS posters are being so heavily criticised for commenting on her ballet training
On ITT Helen said herself that all her ballet training had made learning the Cha-Cha especially difficult as she found the hip movement unnatural and difficult to master.
Originally Posted by gingercodgers:
“Why are we only ever concerned with someones dancing background? Having watched this show from day one I can honestly say that in my opinion the best dancer has not always won. Winning this show takes more than being able to dance.”
“Why are we only ever concerned with someones dancing background? Having watched this show from day one I can honestly say that in my opinion the best dancer has not always won. Winning this show takes more than being able to dance.”
Very true. A contestant with a massive fan base is probably much more of a ringer than someone who can already dance to championship standard in week 1 because of past experience.
Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“I refer you to my earlier advice, get a cat.”
“I refer you to my earlier advice, get a cat.”
Get some manners they cost nothing.
I thought Helen might annoy me but I'm loving her so far. I've enjoyed her routines both weeks and her waltz last week is my favourite dance of the series so far, which is rare for me as I don't rate waltzes that highly overall. She seems pleasant as well so she's my current favourite.
Can't see her winning though - the claws already seem to be out for her because she's openly admitting to having danced before (in a fashion), I can see her being this year's Pixie.
Can't see her winning though - the claws already seem to be out for her because she's openly admitting to having danced before (in a fashion), I can see her being this year's Pixie.
Originally Posted by gingercodgers:
“Why are we only ever concerned with someones dancing background? Having watched this show from day one I can honestly say that in my opinion the best dancer has not always won. Winning this show takes more than being able to dance.”
“Why are we only ever concerned with someones dancing background? Having watched this show from day one I can honestly say that in my opinion the best dancer has not always won. Winning this show takes more than being able to dance.”
It's not just your opinion, it's fact. But I don't think people are only ever concerned about someone's dancing background. Every year there's allegations of favouritism and some people can't stand celebs even before the series starts. This year there's a perception more celebs have dance experience than in previous years. At the end of the day it is a popularity contest, so the weight posters give to that experience will depend on how much they like the celeb.
Originally Posted by CravenHaven:
“Helen is my new Pixie. You lot leave her alone
”
“Helen is my new Pixie. You lot leave her alone
”
I hope she'll join us at some stage. I get the feeling she is often somewhere else half the time. Girl can dance though. Needs to loosen up a bit for Latin.
Originally Posted by scout2006:
“I think you are trying too hard to find something to be outraged about. She doesn't seem to have received any more or less criticism than most of this year's women, but if you need something to get your knickers in a twist about, I suppose this will have to do.”
“I think you are trying too hard to find something to be outraged about. She doesn't seem to have received any more or less criticism than most of this year's women, but if you need something to get your knickers in a twist about, I suppose this will have to do.”
Tonight, she received more "ringer" comments, more "can't warm to her but I don't know why" comments, and there was a greater undercurrent of negativity about her, compared to the other women.
Originally Posted by Nina_Blake:
“Well, I'd imagine a few were made in jest after the Daily Mail did an exposé on her.”
“Well, I'd imagine a few were made in jest after the Daily Mail did an exposé on her.”
None of the ones I saw were written in a way that suggested jest.
Did the Mail say something significant about Helen between last week and this? Because there's been quite a big increase in negative comments about her. Last week, the "ringer" accusations were spread around a lot more evenly, for example.
Originally Posted by petertard:
“She really isn't a ringer. Witness that stiffness and ultra straight leg in the Cha cha. Too many ballet lessons, which did not help with that dance.”
“She really isn't a ringer. Witness that stiffness and ultra straight leg in the Cha cha. Too many ballet lessons, which did not help with that dance.”
Unfortunately, by now such comments are pretty much just echoing the judges.
Originally Posted by petertard:
“She really isn't a ringer. Witness that stiffness and ultra straight leg in the Cha cha. Too many ballet lessons, which did not help with that dance.”
“She really isn't a ringer. Witness that stiffness and ultra straight leg in the Cha cha. Too many ballet lessons, which did not help with that dance.”
Exactly.
Just because Helen has had ballet training does not necessarily make it easier for her to excel in ballroom.
Notice how last week Helen had problems placing her feet together. She is used to standing in 'first' so she had to learn to stand differently. Old habits are hard to break.
Ballet is a totally different discipline to ballroom. She may have more musicality than a novice (but even non dancers can have musicality), but she'll have struggles the same as everyone else, because she'll be so disciplined in ballet. Same as gymnasts, they have 'banana backs and sway back legs' so ballet for them is a struggle as you need to have straight legs and a straight back and vice versa, ie a ballet dancer studying gymnastics will struggle.
So it doesn't always follow that because you've studied one genre of dance, you'll be tip top at another.
Originally Posted by bornfree:
“Peter Andre is a better dancer so he is the ringer.”
“Peter Andre is a better dancer so he is the ringer.”
He sells dances well, but the technique isn't brilliant - a bit like Alesha in ways.
Originally Posted by BlueStreak:
“
Notice how last week Helen had problems placing her feet together. She is used to standing in 'second' so she had to learn to stand differently. Old habits are hard to break.
Ballet is a totally different discipline to ballroom. She may have more musicality than a novice (but even non dancers can have musicality), but she'll have struggles the same as everyone else, because she'll be so disciplined in ballet. Same as gymnasts, they have 'banana backs and sway back legs' so ballet for them is a struggle as you need to have straight legs and a straight back and vice versa, ie a ballet dancer studying gymnastics will struggle.
So it doesn't always follow that because you've studied one genre of dance, you'll be tip top at another.
”
“
Notice how last week Helen had problems placing her feet together. She is used to standing in 'second' so she had to learn to stand differently. Old habits are hard to break.
Ballet is a totally different discipline to ballroom. She may have more musicality than a novice (but even non dancers can have musicality), but she'll have struggles the same as everyone else, because she'll be so disciplined in ballet. Same as gymnasts, they have 'banana backs and sway back legs' so ballet for them is a struggle as you need to have straight legs and a straight back and vice versa, ie a ballet dancer studying gymnastics will struggle.
So it doesn't always follow that because you've studied one genre of dance, you'll be tip top at another.
”
Actually studying ballet is one if the best possible ways to teach you control, musicality, core/axis, balance and stage craft. It's a fantastic discipline.
No it's not like ballroom but then ballet has a much older pedigree than ballroom. Several hundred years in fact. Ballroom on the other hand is made of up of borrowed dances from all manner of other dance forms and different countries, altered to suit. Not one is original other than the Gay Gordons or the Lambeth Walk.
Ballet is a pure art form that has developed, grown and evolved over the centuries. As has it's extraordinary technique.
Someone who has studied ballet can adapt to other styles - if they are good, if they are focused and if they have great teachers. It is not impossible. In fact they are rather good at it.
In fact trained ballet dancers bring with them superb balance, a fantastically strong core, a flexible back and beautiful legs.
To suggest they cannot adjust to other dances is a load of old piffle!
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“Actually studying ballet is one if the best possible ways to teach you control, musicality, core/axis, balance and stage craft. It's a fantastic discipline.
No it's not like ballroom but then ballet has a much older pedigree than ballroom. Several hundred years in fact. Ballroom on the other hand is made of up of borrowed dances from all manner of other dance forms and different countries, altered to suit. Not one is original other than the Gay Gordons or the Lambeth Walk.
Ballet is a pure art form that has developed, grown and evolved over the centuries. As has it's extraordinary technique.
Someone who has studied ballet can adapt to other styles - if they are good, if they are focused and if they have great teachers. It is not impossible. In fact they are rather good at it.
In fact trained ballet dancers bring with them superb balance, a fantastically strong core, a flexible back and beautiful legs.
To suggest they cannot adjust to other dances is a load of old piffle!”
“Actually studying ballet is one if the best possible ways to teach you control, musicality, core/axis, balance and stage craft. It's a fantastic discipline.
No it's not like ballroom but then ballet has a much older pedigree than ballroom. Several hundred years in fact. Ballroom on the other hand is made of up of borrowed dances from all manner of other dance forms and different countries, altered to suit. Not one is original other than the Gay Gordons or the Lambeth Walk.
Ballet is a pure art form that has developed, grown and evolved over the centuries. As has it's extraordinary technique.
Someone who has studied ballet can adapt to other styles - if they are good, if they are focused and if they have great teachers. It is not impossible. In fact they are rather good at it.
In fact trained ballet dancers bring with them superb balance, a fantastically strong core, a flexible back and beautiful legs.
To suggest they cannot adjust to other dances is a load of old piffle!
”
I didn't say they cannot adjust, I said they may struggle. Therein lies the difference.
Different genre's of dance require totally different techniques and styles and usage of the body. If one has studied ballet for instance, the correct placing of the feet, back, legs etc make it hard to adjust to a different style.
Even now, I still stand in third. It's a hard habit to break after thirty years
Ballet will be a help to her in some ways and a hindrance in others. Anyone with a sense of musicality, with the ability to perform or with experience of learning routines will also have an advantage. Therefore nearly all the contestants have some kind of advantage. Any singer, actor or gymnast on the show has a particular advantage.
Heck, if it was me the fact I do yoga would put me at a big advantage.
Tbh anyone who complains about Helen's experience alone clearly has concerns she might do better than their chosen favourite and their opinion really isn't worth much.
Heck, if it was me the fact I do yoga would put me at a big advantage.
Tbh anyone who complains about Helen's experience alone clearly has concerns she might do better than their chosen favourite and their opinion really isn't worth much.
Originally Posted by BlueStreak:
“I didn't say they cannot adjust, I said they may struggle. Therein lies the difference.
Different genre's of dance require totally different techniques and styles and usage of the body. If one has studied ballet for instance, the correct placing of the feet, back, legs etc make it hard to adjust to a different style.
Even now, I still stand in third. It's a hard habit to break after thirty years
”
“I didn't say they cannot adjust, I said they may struggle. Therein lies the difference.
Different genre's of dance require totally different techniques and styles and usage of the body. If one has studied ballet for instance, the correct placing of the feet, back, legs etc make it hard to adjust to a different style.
Even now, I still stand in third. It's a hard habit to break after thirty years
”
I managed it. I did work at it though. I went from ballet to flamenco to ballroom to salsa - and then AT. I still dance, even though I could never do what I used to. And I still find feet in second the most comfortable position!
But then again some dancers are more versatile than others. I could never get my head around street dance and simply cannot do it!
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“Ballet will be a help to her in some ways and a hindrance in others. Anyone with a sense of musicality, with the ability to perform or with experience of learning routines will also have an advantage. Therefore nearly all the contestants have some kind of advantage. Any singer, actor or gymnast on the show has a particular advantage.
Heck, if it was me the fact I do yoga would put me at a big advantage.
Tbh anyone who complains about Helen's experience alone clearly has concerns she might do better than their chosen favourite and their opinion really isn't worth much.”
“Ballet will be a help to her in some ways and a hindrance in others. Anyone with a sense of musicality, with the ability to perform or with experience of learning routines will also have an advantage. Therefore nearly all the contestants have some kind of advantage. Any singer, actor or gymnast on the show has a particular advantage.
Heck, if it was me the fact I do yoga would put me at a big advantage.
Tbh anyone who complains about Helen's experience alone clearly has concerns she might do better than their chosen favourite and their opinion really isn't worth much.”
And that is the real truth!
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“He sells dances well, but the technique isn't brilliant - a bit like Alesha in ways.”
“He sells dances well, but the technique isn't brilliant - a bit like Alesha in ways.”
His technique is really quite bad. Not sure he sells a dance to me, more that he flogs it to death and I do not want to watch!
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“I managed it. I did work at it though. I went from ballet to flamenco to ballroom to salsa - and then AT. I still dance, even though I could never do what I used to. And I still find feet in second the most comfortable position!
But then again some dancers are more versatile than others. I could never get my head around street dance and simply cannot do it!”
“I managed it. I did work at it though. I went from ballet to flamenco to ballroom to salsa - and then AT. I still dance, even though I could never do what I used to. And I still find feet in second the most comfortable position!
But then again some dancers are more versatile than others. I could never get my head around street dance and simply cannot do it!”
Yes, nothing is impossible. I was merely pointing out that she may struggle. It isn't a given she will excel as some may expect her to, given her past ballet training. I hope she does though, as I like Helen. But you have to remember she doesn't have that much time to learn ballroom, the same as everyone else of course. She doesn't have the luxury of months upon months to get out of some of the habits she's used to.
Lets face it, ISTD ballet is different to RAD and Cecchetti. Each have their different subtleties. Train in one and then go on to train in another and it's hard to stop doing what you are used to. It's not impossible to train in all three, it just takes quite a bit of time to switch over. If you see what I mean. Frustrating too lol.
Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“What rambling piffle, how on earth do you have the slightest clue what the viewing public are assuming from a few vague comments
Just don't be so silly.”
“What rambling piffle, how on earth do you have the slightest clue what the viewing public are assuming from a few vague comments
Just don't be so silly.”
Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“You don't talk to anything near enough to be a representative sample.
More silliness.”
“You don't talk to anything near enough to be a representative sample.
More silliness.”
Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“Nothing is patently obvious as you suggest, you have let your imagination get in the way of reality, perhaps taking a fun TV show about dancing a bit too seriously.
Some of the people on here are really over invested.
Get a cat.”
“Nothing is patently obvious as you suggest, you have let your imagination get in the way of reality, perhaps taking a fun TV show about dancing a bit too seriously.
Some of the people on here are really over invested.
Get a cat.”
WTF?? You need to get some bloomin manners!
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“His technique is really quite bad. Not sure he sells a dance to me, more that he flogs it to death and I do not want to watch!”
“His technique is really quite bad. Not sure he sells a dance to me, more that he flogs it to death and I do not want to watch!”
I find it annoying that the judges act like his technique is great. He is a bit like Lisa Riley to me - gurning over substance. His technique isn't quite that bad though.
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“Actually studying ballet is one if the best possible ways to teach you control, musicality, core/axis, balance and stage craft. It's a fantastic discipline.
No it's not like ballroom but then ballet has a much older pedigree than ballroom. Several hundred years in fact. Ballroom on the other hand is made of up of borrowed dances from all manner of other dance forms and different countries, altered to suit. Not one is original other than the Gay Gordons or the Lambeth Walk.
Ballet is a pure art form that has developed, grown and evolved over the centuries. As has it's extraordinary technique.
Someone who has studied ballet can adapt to other styles - if they are good, if they are focused and if they have great teachers. It is not impossible. In fact they are rather good at it.
In fact trained ballet dancers bring with them superb balance, a fantastically strong core, a flexible back and beautiful legs.
To suggest they cannot adjust to other dances is a load of old piffle!”
“Actually studying ballet is one if the best possible ways to teach you control, musicality, core/axis, balance and stage craft. It's a fantastic discipline.
No it's not like ballroom but then ballet has a much older pedigree than ballroom. Several hundred years in fact. Ballroom on the other hand is made of up of borrowed dances from all manner of other dance forms and different countries, altered to suit. Not one is original other than the Gay Gordons or the Lambeth Walk.
Ballet is a pure art form that has developed, grown and evolved over the centuries. As has it's extraordinary technique.
Someone who has studied ballet can adapt to other styles - if they are good, if they are focused and if they have great teachers. It is not impossible. In fact they are rather good at it.
In fact trained ballet dancers bring with them superb balance, a fantastically strong core, a flexible back and beautiful legs.
To suggest they cannot adjust to other dances is a load of old piffle!
”
Ah yes, the many hours I have spent learning how to do the Lambeth Walk with my ballroom dance teachers, lol.
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“It's easier to say who is NOT a ringer this year.
Carol, Jeremy, Ainsley and Iwan have not danced before, as far as I know. Even Daniel did Irish dancing and learns routines for his shows. That means 10 out of the 15 celebs have some dance experience. None have Ballroom, but you can't completely disregard their experience.”
“It's easier to say who is NOT a ringer this year.
Carol, Jeremy, Ainsley and Iwan have not danced before, as far as I know. Even Daniel did Irish dancing and learns routines for his shows. That means 10 out of the 15 celebs have some dance experience. None have Ballroom, but you can't completely disregard their experience.”
totally agree. And I watch to see a good show with good dancing. If all the contestants were like Iwan, Jeremy and Carol I wouldn't bother watching
Ringer or no ringer, Petre Andre is annoying. I know he is good, I also know he is working hard, but I just cant like him.
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“It's not just your opinion, it's fact. But I don't think people are only ever concerned about someone's dancing background. Every year there's allegations of favouritism and some people can't stand celebs even before the series starts. This year there's a perception more celebs have dance experience than in previous years. At the end of the day it is a popularity contest, so the weight posters give to that experience will depend on how much they like the celeb.”
“It's not just your opinion, it's fact. But I don't think people are only ever concerned about someone's dancing background. Every year there's allegations of favouritism and some people can't stand celebs even before the series starts. This year there's a perception more celebs have dance experience than in previous years. At the end of the day it is a popularity contest, so the weight posters give to that experience will depend on how much they like the celeb.”
This is true. As we all know from previous shows, the public have the final say and having a big fanbase/being popular with the public is a far bigger asset to have than having dance training. Never mind having dance training actually can be the disadvatage (when the public find out!)
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“Ballet will be a help to her in some ways and a hindrance in others. Anyone with a sense of musicality, with the ability to perform or with experience of learning routines will also have an advantage. Therefore nearly all the contestants have some kind of advantage. Any singer, actor or gymnast on the show has a particular advantage.
Heck, if it was me the fact I do yoga would put me at a big advantage.
Tbh anyone who complains about Helen's experience alone clearly has concerns she might do better than their chosen favourite and their opinion really isn't worth much.”
“Ballet will be a help to her in some ways and a hindrance in others. Anyone with a sense of musicality, with the ability to perform or with experience of learning routines will also have an advantage. Therefore nearly all the contestants have some kind of advantage. Any singer, actor or gymnast on the show has a particular advantage.
Heck, if it was me the fact I do yoga would put me at a big advantage.
Tbh anyone who complains about Helen's experience alone clearly has concerns she might do better than their chosen favourite and their opinion really isn't worth much.”
I'm not sure if yoga does help much. I know it gives you strength and flexibility but I've brought friends along to my dance class who do a lot of yoga and they don't seem to able to follow the choreography. Yoga positions are different to dance and you tend to have to hold them for a long time rather than switch quickly in time to music. Also you don't do turns, spins or jumps in yoga?
I tried yoga after doing dance for a long time and found some of the positions tricky, for instance in the 'attitude' position in dance, the rest of your body is vertical. But a similar position in yoga, your back is horizontal and you have to hold your arms out in front of you.
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