Please don't tell us what matters with regard to our entertainment. It reminds me of the hectoring over in the Doctor Foster thread. Just because something is packaged as total entertainment doesn't mean we can't get irritated over the editing, or whether the producers are treating the audience like idiots.

Apologies - I must have mistaken you for a different poster.

Exactly right Kaycee. I have been teaching ballroom to a ballet dancer, and to get her to lower, use heels and to have flex in her knees is proving very dificult./impossible In this lady's case, her training is actually a hinderance. Habits are hard to break.

It's the same every year, with someone getting slated for being a ringer - Although I have to say, it is already looking like Jay will have a much easier ride than someone like Natalie had.

Credit though, that was like watching two pro partners dance.

There's probably a helpline.

"Press 1 to complain about the judges' marking; press 2 if you're upset that your favourite didn't top the leaderboard; press 3 if you wish to claim for an injury sustained by a flailing Vine; press 4 if you feel BETRAYED that the celebrity who performed that dance you enjoyed has turned out not to be a complete novice; press 6 to campaign for tighter trousers for Aljaž; press 7 if you haven't got over the fact that COLINWUZROBBED..."

*immediately wears out 6 and 7 buttons on phone*

I don't think it will hinder him like it has with previous other contestants because a) he's never hidden it or lied about it and b) he still comes across as utterly shocked when people react to his efforts and appears to be completely genuine in that shock. He seems to be quite shy and self-affacing which I think draws people to him as well.

I find him absolutely fabulous to watch and I don't care a bit he's had some dance experience as a teenager.


It doesn't require any detective work, it's on his Strictly profile and he mentioned it in a radio interview after he was announced as a competitor.

I only found out recently too....and I had been judging him in the same way.

I do prefer to have some celebs who have had training as I like to see good dances as well as entertaining ones and I do think the trained ones can actually be at a disadvantage (can work against them in the public vote) Jay is a talented dancer, but like you, I was surprised at finding out about his dance training - with his nervousness and surprise at getting good comments and nothing being mentioned, I had presumed he was a novice, discovering dance for the first time. I wasn't the only one as a few colleagues at work were judging him alongside Anita and other novices.

I know Helen brought up her ballet training initially and it might not have been intentional for it to be mentioned a few times after that, but all the same, I do feel a bit sorry for her because I'm convinced theres a lot of viewers out there who judged Helen as a trained dancer and Jay as a complete novice.

She had intended a career as a professional dancer and taken the steps to achieve that, which is different than doing dance at stage school as a teenager.

On top of that, she (for me at any rate), while being a technically experienced dancer, utterly failed to engage my emotions at all except for one or two of her performances. I found her and Artem to be utterly clinical and expressionless for most of their routines.

Just to be pedantic, we don't know which course he took there. If it was the three year musical theatre one, then all we know is that, in the second year: "Students have subjects added to their timetable for example Latin and Ballroom, Stage Combat and Acting through Song to broaden their knowledge and understanding of the many disciplines required to be a Musical Theatre Performer." We don't know the number, quality or duration or if Jay even took those classes. It sounds more like they had a 'taste' of a few different disciplines, but who knows?

I had a look at the list of successful alumni from this college and Jay's the only one I've heard of (and only then because he's on Strictly ). One or two appear to be getting work dancing and choreographing for pop videos and as backing dancers on the X Factor and the like, but most of them have a credit or two in panto or on cruise ships. Not wishing to be too be rude about it, but it's hardly Rambert.

I love that Jay clearly learned how to control his body, spot turns and use his arms well - it's so nice to see a male dancer on Strictly come with some of that ready made - but honestly, I think most of what we're seeing is natural talent.

I totally agree.

Me too! Ha ha ha

You need a talent to be as good as he is. They can send you to a dance bootcamp, you will be able to do a competent dance, but without a talent you won't reach that level.

I do agree that that's partly why there was such a backlash against her, and why Len was often so hard on her. It was a shame for Natalie because clearly one of her reasons for doing Strictly was the opportunity to do what her injury had curtailed before, but that worked against her.

True, the boy is talented. He appears to be more competent than some pros.

Think that there is also the fact that a female celeb should be more outgoing (in terms of personality) and a male celeb is preferred to be a bit shy (just look at recent winners).

Besides, Jay can more easily bring out the nurturing element of the voting public (and sometimes even a sexual awakening ).

Anyway, we are headed for an obvious winner. Is there a way to "fix" this next year? Not really, unless you only sign up celebs without any dance training at all.

At least I hope that we are not going to pretend that the final is going to be tense on the night.

I think if she'd have been up front about it from the start - i.e. the injury being what stopped her professional career and how she was hoping SCD would just bring back that enjoyment, more people would have warmed to her.
She came across much better in the ITT and interviews than she did on the dance floor I think where she seemed to be channelling too much of Artem's "arrogance" and "can do what I want" choreography.
A lot of the stuff they danced was heavily contemporary styled rather than ballroom/latin based.

This was definitely what turned me off their partnership. It may not have been her fault but she could have learnt to do really competent ballroom and Latin routines instead of churning out endless contempo-drama pieces she had already been trained to do as a youngster.

Have to say I thought that's what she did say very early on ????

I could be wrong though but I knew that about her, I think this year PA may be wanting this, a few west end shows to do will extend his "career ".

Yes Natalie said on the Launch Show that she trained to be a dancer and couldn't go on to do it as an adult because of a serious injury. It then got brought up every time she picked up an injury on the show, which was fairly often.

So Jay has had dance training. As have MANY, MANY previous SCD celebs.

Put it this way. If I had dance training 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10 years I could NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS have done that jive last night. The boy has talent - end of.

oh good grief, thats exactly what i'm seeing too much of: grown women, many of them well into middle years, alternating between cooing over him and slobbering over him....

not helped by him seeming to be still rather overly attached to his own mother. separation issues that boy.

The quality of Jay's technique last night shows that he has had extensive dance training, not sure why anyone could believe he hasn't!
Doesn't matter to me but I do like to see people feel a dance as well as do the steps. .
He comes up short on the performance element and that particular dance masked that very well since it is a straight faced dance pulled from a movie.
Sometimes the less technically impressive are more fun to watch.

True but I don't think this is one of those times.

Yes no doubt he has talent,

Besides it depends on what training he actually had, there are some dance schools that specialise in cheerleading and hip hop, I don't think either of those would be much use in a ballroom and Latin dancing competition.