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  • Strictly Come Dancing
Jay - previous dance training
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coppertop1
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“Somebody used the word duped. Of course all his fans are going to be up in arms at the slightest bit of criticism - let's face it up to now he hasn't received any - but is it really that difficult to put on an act with of course a helping hand from Tess and co. Should he really be that nervous and surprised having had previous training and been used to performing in front of audiences? I wouldn't have thought so. If it really was so much of an ordeal for him why enter in the first place?

Obviously, the BBC want to have as many viewers as possible and if they can nick a few from X Factor then so much the better. What better way to do it than promote the story of Jay.”

Nicole Kidman was on the Graham Norton show this week taking about her stage fright.
kalouk
11-10-2015
I think there's room for everybody. My votes went to Jay and Jeremy two extremes as far as talent but I enjoyed both dances for different reasons. My only gripe is really with the judges when they mock the contestants with no experience. I have said before when they laughed at Jeremy week one it annoyed me and that's when I feel it gets unfair. This goes back as far as Mark Foster. The dancers starting from scratch are not there for the judges to belittle. I have no problem with previous experience but treat the less talented dancers with respect too. Maybe the BBC need to decide what they want from the show because as it stands for me it leaves a sour taste to see people who are giving it there best laughed at.
duckylucky
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by coppertop1:
“Nicole Kidman was on the Graham Norton show this week taking about her stage fright.”

I found her very interesting .She was rooted to the spot and shaking like a leaf on her first few nights on stage in the West End . As she put it no two moments on stage are the same and being out of her comfort zone affected her quite badly
kochspostulates
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by *Venetia*:
“But he'd be a lot better at it than someone who had never ridden a horse before!

Sorry but any previous dance training is going to help in a dance competition!”



Darcey Bussell is a trained dancer but not trained in latin and ballroom as a professional. Are people saying that if she were to compete in Strictly she would have no advantages over Ann Widdecombe?


I agree with you that any sort of dance training helps you to do any other type of dance. Also most dancers don't only learn one type of dance, they will have their main type of dance that they perform, but will probably have done classes in other forms, even if they are only in beginner level classes.
calamity
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by kalouk:
“I think there's room for everybody. My votes went to Jay and Jeremy two extremes as far as talent but I enjoyed both dances for different reasons. My only gripe is really with the judges when they mock the contestants with no experience. I have said before when they laughed at Jeremy week one it annoyed me and that's when I feel it gets unfair. This goes back as far as Mark Foster. The dancers starting from scratch are not there for the judges to belittle. I have no problem with previous experience but treat the less talented dancers with respect too. Maybe the BBC need to decide what they want from the show because as it stands for me it leaves a sour taste to see people who are giving it there best laughed at.”

Oh I just thought of Anne Widdecombe when you said that , sorry but we had to laugh...
tabithakitten
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by kochspostulates:
“Darcey Bussell is a trained dancer but not trained in latin and ballroom as a professional. Are people saying that if she were to compete in Strictly she would have no advantages over Ann Widdecombe?


I agree with you that any sort of dance training helps you to do any other type of dance. Also most dancers don't only learn one type of dance, they will have their main type of dance that they perform, but will probably have done classes in other forms, even if they are only in beginner level classes.”

A chest of drawers would have advantages over Ann Widdecombe.
aggs
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“Somebody used the word duped. Of course all his fans are going to be up in arms at the slightest bit of criticism - let's face it up to now he hasn't received any - but is it really that difficult to put on an act with of course a helping hand from Tess and co. Should he really be that nervous and surprised having had previous training and been used to performing in front of audiences? I wouldn't have thought so. If it really was so much of an ordeal for him why enter in the first place?

Obviously, the BBC want to have as many viewers as possible and if they can nick a few from X Factor then so much the better. What better way to do it than promote the story of Jay.”

That's probably something to ask Daniel as well - seeing as how he has admitted he was so terrified he couldn't speak.

I guess live, Saturday night, flagship programme tele is enough to given even the most seasoned of performers nerves.
Monkseal
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by tabithakitten:
“A chest of drawers would have advantages over Ann Widdecombe.”

It's have a better bra for a start
Ellie1967
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by kalouk:
“I think there's room for everybody. My votes went to Jay and Jeremy two extremes as far as talent but I enjoyed both dances for different reasons. My only gripe is really with the judges when they mock the contestants with no experience. I have said before when they laughed at Jeremy week one it annoyed me and that's when I feel it gets unfair. This goes back as far as Mark Foster. The dancers starting from scratch are not there for the judges to belittle. I have no problem with previous experience but treat the less talented dancers with respect too. Maybe the BBC need to decide what they want from the show because as it stands for me it leaves a sour taste to see people who are giving it there best laughed at.”

Totally agree. Last night the unkindness in their comments to the beginners compared to the front runners was very noticeable. It was bad enough when it was just Craig but I think Bruno is getting meaner as well and his laughing at Daniel came across a bit like a school bully. I know they have to be honest but I think they could be a bit more encouraging with it as it must be hard enough to stay motivated with the huge gulf between them and the people with dance experience (who I don't mind either BTW).
aggs
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“It's have a better bra for a start”



Hopefully it would also keep its legs covered.
wazzyboy
11-10-2015
What also will have been good for Jay last night was his music, theme and costuming was not a hindrance and Aliona choreographed it fairly authentically. Add that he has natural ability and some training in forms of dance and it was a recipe for success. No need to bash him for it though IMO. He clearly had worked hard and put in a great performance.
youngthing12
11-10-2015
Who gives a .... if he had some ballet training when he was 13
It was the Best dance of the night 😄 And that's what you want
to see on Strictly he was Brilliant 👏 👏😄😀😀 He can do no
Wrong 😀 Can't wait to see next weeks dance....
By the way I played hockey extremely well when I was 13 no
way could I do it now 😜
Jay did not train in ballroom or Latin 😊
Servalan
11-10-2015
Before I go any further, I don't have any favourites, so there's no subtext to what follows …

Was Jay's jive impressive? Undoubtedly.

However, for a contestant to get a '10' in Week 3 is, as I recall, a first in SCD history. And, probably not a good first.

Of course there are people who have had some dance training taking part in Strictly this year. As there has been previously.

But, as Craig pointed out, to be that technically good that early in the competition is something that hasn't happened before. And it creates problems, on a number of levels …

First of all, the competition is suddenly skewed in a way it hasn't been before now. Jay is clearly technically competent in such a way that can't possibly just have come from his training with Aliona. He is significantly more advanced skills-wise than any other celeb. Where does that leave him to go? If Jay can deliver a routine like that now, what's he going to be like later? It's hard to escape the answer: we already know.

Moreover, how can the producers now escape the sense that the competition already has a winner? There is zero tension/drama if one contestant is so far ahead of all the others that we now already know that his performances will be of this standard or similar (i.e. he will look like one of the pro's). That's a problem for them, as one of the central planks of any reality show with a public vote is that there's unpredictability. Now, with one contestant, there isn't any - unless the public take against him (à la Lisa Snowdon), we already know he'll be in the final.

Beyond that, this creates a problem beyond this year's series. Strictly is not only one of the jewels in the BBC's crown - it's practically its one and only in-house success story in entertainment. And, given the talks about the future of the BBC - in which SCD has been referred to (in both positive and negative ways), this series has to be absolutely flawless and scandal-free. The public has got to unequivocally love it. And the chances of that happening will diminish with a contestant who's apparently massively overqualified. All it takes now is for The Sun, Telegraph or Mail to start digging into Jay's experience, and use it to trash Strictly (and the BBC). We've already had an example of how low they're prepared to sink in the last week with the Mail, which tried to link the Leeds-based winner of GBBO with the 7/7 bombers. So using Jay's experience (whatever the details are) to rubbish SCD is certainly not off-limits.

Unlike Mark Ramprakash's, Jay's nerves are not a narrative. If anything, they are in danger of looking disingenuous after a near-perfect performance, and he won't be able to get away with it for long.

I suspect the coming weeks could create drama of a kind the producers weren't planning on …
angelac
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by Servalan:
“Before I go any further, I don't have any favourites, so there's no subtext to what follows …

Was Jay's jive impressive? Undoubtedly.

However, for a contestant to get a '10' in Week 3 is, as I recall, a first in SCD history. And, probably not a good first.

Of course there are people who have had some dance training taking part in Strictly this year. As there has been previously.

But, as Craig pointed out, to be that technically good that early in the competition is something that hasn't happened before. And it creates problems, on a number of levels …

First of all, the competition is suddenly skewed in a way it hasn't been before now. Jay is clearly technically competent in such a way that can't possibly just have come from his training with Aliona. He is significantly more advanced skills-wise than any other celeb. Where does that leave him to go? If Jay can deliver a routine like that now, what's he going to be like later? It's hard to escape the answer: we already know.

Moreover, how can the producers now escape the sense that the competition already has a winner? There is zero tension/drama if one contestant is so far ahead of all the others that we now already know that his performances will be of this standard or similar (i.e. he will look like one of the pro's). That's a problem for them, as one of the central planks of any reality show with a public vote is that there's unpredictability. Now, with one contestant, there isn't any - unless the public take against him (à la Lisa Snowdon), we already know he'll be in the final.

Beyond that, this creates a problem beyond this year's series. Strictly is not only one of the jewels in the BBC's crown - it's practically its one and only in-house success story in entertainment. And, given the talks about the future of the BBC - in which SCD has been referred to (in both positive and negative ways), this series has to be absolutely flawless and scandal-free. The public has got to unequivocally love it. And the chances of that happening will diminish with a contestant who's apparently massively overqualified. All it takes now is for The Sun, Telegraph or Mail to start digging into Jay's experience, and use it to trash Strictly (and the BBC). We've already had an example of how low they're prepared to sink in the last week with the Mail, which tried to link the Leeds-based winner of GBBO with the 7/7 bombers. So using Jay's experience (whatever the details are) to rubbish SCD is certainly not off-limits.

Unlike Mark Ramprakash's, Jay's nerves are not a narrative. If anything, they are in danger of looking disingenuous after a near-perfect performance, and he won't be able to get away with it for long.

I suspect the coming weeks could create drama of a kind the producers weren't planning on …”

BIB - it's actually a third - Louisa got one for her jive which was her 2nd dance and Frankie got one last year in week 3 Movie week for her paso.

But i agree with you, as a Jay fan myself, i am worried about where he can go when he is already so good. I can't see him doing a couple of the dances (salsa, samba) well, so they will be the interesting ones to watch for me.
coppertop1
11-10-2015
Peter Andre 's court case is much more likely to be a problem for the BBC than Jays dancing and as you pointed out the best dancer doesn't always win.

In fact for 3 weeks of the GBBO everybody thought it was a foregone conclusion that Ian would win.
Servalan
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by angelac:
“BIB - it's actually a third - Louise got one for her jive which was her 2nd dance and Frankie got one last year in week 3 Movie week for her paso.”

Thank you - I might have guessed my memory would have failed me on that front!

But I still stand by my comments - as Craig said, Jay is technically more precise than either of them.
jtnorth
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by Servalan:
“Thank you - I might have guessed my memory would have failed me on that front!

But I still stand by my comments - as Craig said, Jay is technically more precise than either of them.”

I think the point is that Louisa didn't win and Frankie didn't win and Sophie didn't win despite her Charleston getting the most fuss for any single dance that year and Jake didn't win (or get to the final) despite his Salsa getting the most fuss of last year. Tactically it was probably a huge error for Jay to dance that well this early, it will see so many people doing their best to come up with reasons to hate him, and will set him up as the ringer that some journey contestant, probably Peter, will beat. But I don't care because I wouldn't have wanted to miss that jive and because I think the show only works if you enjoy the dancing and ignore the rest of it - as best you can.
Cadiva
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by coppertop1:
“Have to say I thought that's what she did say very early on ????

I could be wrong though but I knew that about her, I think this year PA may be wanting this, a few west end shows to do will extend his "career ".”

Ah sorry I don't think I was clear in what I mean - i.e. emphasising the wanting to dance because she missed it having being injured while on the path to becoming a professional dancer.

She did mention the injury from the off but I don't think she made as big a deal out of missing the dancing itself, does that make more sense?

Originally Posted by shrinkingviolet:
“Bar maybe the first series, Strictly has always had mixed abilities in it, including the dreaded ringahs.”

No the first series had Claire Sweeny in it it's never been any different, people just tend to gloss over that.
lealeeds
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by aggs:
“

Hopefully it would also keep its legs covered.”

Certainly would give a more polished performance
Cadiva
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“You can't logically exclude the Mel C's,.”

Well they had her contemporary Mel B on Dancing with the Stars and she was awesome but still didn't win and neither did Emma Bunton on Strictly

Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“

The Midlands academy seems to offer dimploma level courses . There's a junior school which is evening and weekend classes. Which did he do? Did he leave at 13? or start at 18? If he left at 13 where did he go next as nothing seems to be listed?
http://maddcollege.co.uk/about/

Does anyone actually know what he has done?”

According to his biography he attended after school dance classes at the first place (the dance academy) aged 13 where he was bullied for liking ballet, then went to the stage school place from there and left, aged 16, to audition for and eventually join The Wanted.
CravenHaven
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by tabithakitten:
“A chest of drawers would have advantages over Ann Widdecombe.”

Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“It's have a better bra for a start”

are we talking Queen Anne furniture now?
wazzyboy
11-10-2015
There is bound to be a duff week, music or choreo is a bit off, he has an off night, theme does them in, gets a dance that least suits him, a less flashy dance when others have flashy ones, music or theme is against them, or something. Poor beggar might get ill or injured, God forbid. It is very unlikely to be all plain sailing.
Cadiva
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by Servalan:
“Moreover, how can the producers now escape the sense that the competition already has a winner?”

Because the producers don't vote for the winner, the public does and there's absolutely no way to guarantee them doing it.
coppertop1
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“Ah sorry I don't think I was clear in what I mean - i.e. emphasising the wanting to dance because she missed it having being injured while on the path to becoming a professional dancer.

She did mention the injury from the off but I don't think she made as big a deal out of missing the dancing itself, does that make more sense?



No the first series had Claire Sweeny in it it's never been any different, people just tend to gloss over that.”

Oh I see no worries
MayD
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“eventually join The Wanted.”

There is some irony in him coming from a band of that name reading some of the posts about his background.
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