Jay - previous dance training

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robbleona

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by shelleyj89:
“Your comment makes it sound like it's some esteemed dance competition and Jay is breaking the rules. It's a Saturday night entertainment show, in which celebrities, many of which have some prior dance training or experience, do their best to put in their best performance and entertain us. That's all.”

Didn't Jill Halfpenny have some dance training too? Kara? Ali Bastian? etc etc...last year the top three all had significant 'previous', despite the denials of some on here.
Doesn't it really come down to who you 'like or dislike' in the end? I liked kara, but couldn't stand chris hollins, no way would I ever have voted for him, trained or not.
This year's ringers are numerous...in fact I would say only carol,kirsty,ainsley,jeremy and maybe anita ( plus the two who have gone) are without any significant previous training...
None of this alters the fact that Jay and Aliona were bloody marvellous on saturday, btw.

robbleona

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by Shappy:
“Anything (including trained dancers like Jay) are better than that awful Darren Gough (Series 3?) going on and on about how he's not a dancer and is a "man's man", completely insulting every professional male dancer and showing a narrow minded stereotype of what a real man is.”

Have to mention the great John Sergeant, no dance training but who would have gone on to win the show but for being hounded off.....you can't have it both ways! oops...thats opened a can of worms!!

MayD

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“Well you've posted in here far more than anyone else has...”

That may very well be true

but still. I reserve the right to vent my spleen about the venting of spleens

Seriously though, I've probably over made my point so I'll Foxtrot Oscar and not darken the door of this thread again

marinamau

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by primer:
“yes, i certainly saw people turn against denise, but in my opinion, the whole mentioning of the 'sat on a chair' thing was code for 'I don't like her, but i'm going to make it seem objective by linking it to what can be interpreted as an attempt to minimise her experience' - it was almost a group think, the number of times i saw that subjective interpretsation trotted out alongside some fairly visceral personal attacks on her that were very little to do with the premise on which they were hung......

ok, thats hardly 'hardly watching' -by any standards! ”

!

I didn't watch the whole programs, just the dances on YouTube.

L_duncan

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by marinamau:
“Far too sensible post for this forum.”

... and talking of being sensible ... if ever there's going to be a ruling on what's fair and what's not, what about looking at the 'unfair' advantage the under 30s have against the oldies? what about the 'unfair' advantage the more svelte have against the more rotund? etc etc

marinamau

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by L_duncan:
“... and talking of being sensible ... if ever there's going to be a ruling on what's fair and what's not, what about looking at the 'unfair' advantage the under 30s have against the oldies? what about the 'unfair' advantage the more svelte have against the more rotund? etc etc”

Totally. Or the advantage of being tall for ballroom specially ladies, and the advantage of being fat against the gapping for ballroom!

kochspostulates

12-10-2015

Most people who have won, have been around 30ish though - either late 20s or early 30s. No one really young e.g. teens/ 20ish has won so far....

Monkseal

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by kochspostulates:
“Most people who have won, have been around 30ish though - either late 20s or early 30s. No one really young e.g. teens/ 20ish has won so far....”

Louis (23) and Harry (25) are both amongst the 10 youngest people ever to do the show.

kochspostulates

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“Louis (23) and Harry (25) are both amongst the 10 youngest people ever to do the show.”

I forgot about Louis

boab34

12-10-2015

Originally Posted by primer:
“i love how every defence of a ringer has to include an opt out clause for why it doesn't apply to Denise Van Outen.... Her 'previous' was always at least as clear as jays - actually much more so as she'd been in a hit west end show - but she is alleged to have attempted to obscure it because she said something about 'just sitting on a chair' and for this reason, its ok to hate Denise even though on the whole one defends the presence of ringers for the quality of dance they bring.

It was always absolutely evident to me that she said that as a joke, and people chose to take it as some sort of 'lying' about her experience because they didn't like her. so if you want 'just an excuse to attack' there it is.

its ok to not vote for someone because you don't like them, or don't want to, and the whole concept of 'best' in dance (as in any other art) is subjective anyway.

i think jay is a great technician, but he won't get my vote until he connects on a human / emotional level and i feel like i'm watching something more than an forensic dissection of the steps performed by a geeky adolescent with his maiden aunt.”

indeed, lol how some fans are getting their knickers in a twist in "differentiating" Jay from DVO

a ringer is a ringer, St Jill and St Kara included, and in the end it's whether I like their dancing

I like Jay's dancing because he has an understated and relaxed style and couldn't care less about his personality (which tbh reminds me of a 15 year old boy I once supervised)

Cadiva

13-10-2015

No in my case it very much was trying to claim the role of Roxie Hart in Chicago means "siting on a chair" - which to be fair was James Jordan not DvO - absolutely was an attempt to play down her previous experience.
Bob Fosse's choreography is demanding work and Chicago has some of his finest routines in it including for Roxie.

coppertop1

13-10-2015

😳Sighs

STILL

Or rather

AGAIN

so many familiar arguments so many unresolved issues

Deja vu of the utmost, are we there yet?

sofakat

13-10-2015

Originally Posted by coppertop1:
“p😳Sighs

STILL

Or rather

AGAIN

so many familiar arguments so many unresolved issues

Deja vu of the utmost, are we there yet?”

Can't believe the old Denise Van O and her sodding 'chair 'are back on topic again. I heartily endorse Cadiva's note about Bob Fosse choreography, which cannot be faked.

Truth is Denise was really not a very likeable character which is why she lost out. Probably an impossible truth for her rampant supporters to accept. But they really have to get over it and move on.

It's a telly show for heaven's sake, not life.

IvanIV

13-10-2015

The thing is if you like someone, you can ignore a lot of things, if you dislike someone even smallest things become sticks to beat them with

Lou_Black

13-10-2015

Originally Posted by sofakat:
“Can't believe the old Denise Van O and her sodding 'chair 'are back on topic again. I heartily endorse Cadiva's note about Bob Fosse choreography, which cannot be faked.

Truth is Denise was really not a very likeable character which is why she lost out. Probably an impossible truth for her rampant supporters to accept. But they really have to get over it and move on.

It's a telly show for heaven's sake, not life.”

Thank you! That is the absolute truth as far as I am concerned.

Monkseal

13-10-2015

Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“No in my case it very much was trying to claim the role of Roxie Hart in Chicago means "siting on a chair" - which to be fair was James Jordan not DvO - absolutely was an attempt to play down her previous experience.
Bob Fosse's choreography is demanding work and Chicago has some of his finest routines in it including for Roxie.”

Oh no it was definitely Denise. It was on the Launch Show during her intro. They showed her a picture of her sitting on a chair in Chicago and she mock self-effacingly said that it was typical of what she did in the show. It was disingenuous and made for a good rib at her expense but it was only one comment. More actually damning I thought were the interviews she'd done in the years before the show where she specifically said she'd never do Strictly because she was already a trained dancer.

aggs

13-10-2015

Originally Posted by IvanIV:
“The thing is if you like someone, you can ignore a lot of things, if you dislike someone even smallest things become sticks to beat them with ”

This is why at announcement time I have my fingers crossed that no one I actually like already will be in. I've had enough childhood illusions shattered - I can do without any more hitting the floor. I much prefer to say 'who?' when a name is announced. At least there are no preconceptions or expectations

Cherrybomber

13-10-2015

Originally Posted by shelleyj89:
“It's easier to name the ones who haven't than name the ones who have. He's not the only one in this series, let alone across all the years.”

Not to mention a that dancing in general is a very common social activity and people may have extremely varied levels of experience

Ringer my bum.

Cherrybomber

13-10-2015

Originally Posted by IvanIV:
“The thing is if you like someone, you can ignore a lot of things, if you dislike someone even smallest things become sticks to beat them with ”

True. That happens a lot on here, some people lack the ability to be fair and realistic.
As the competition goes on this forum gets more extreme

It's possible to like things about people one doesn't like much and also see flaws in those we favour.

Hotgossip

13-10-2015

Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“True. That happens a lot on here, some people lack the ability to be fair and realistic.
As the competition goes on this forum gets more extreme

It's possible to like things about people one doesn't like much and also see flaws in those we favour. ”

That's very true. Some people just "love" their chosen dancer so much that it blinds them. I believe they actually think they somehow know them personally.

They know all the facts, figures and background to their idol and they won't hear a word said against them.

They will find any excuse to keep their idol on that pedestal. "What does it matter if they have dance experience?" "It's only a fun show". "It's not really a competition." Etc.

Some of us just watch it because it's Saturday evening and there's not much else on. Personally I like seeing the dresses, the judges make me laugh and I do like to see how people develop and progress over the weeks.

I don't worship anybody though

Sarah_Jones5

13-10-2015

I came an article questioning whether Jay should be allowed to compete due to his previous experience.

http://tv.bt.com/tv/tv-news/should-j...uld-be-banned-

fatskia

13-10-2015

Has the Strictly News thread disappeared?

Sarah_Jones5

13-10-2015

Sorry Fatskia I forgot.

lulu g

13-10-2015

I can't read that article, but I imagine people will say yes, he should be allowed to compete because other people with training and/or experience have been allowed to compete. I'm wondering at what point previous training and/or experience would disqualify someone from competing.

hansue

13-10-2015

I cant open the article but enough already. The BBC knew of his previous experience and they invited him on. What was he supposed to do. Say no thank you I am really good at dancing and it wouldn't be fair. I cant imagine anyone saying that.

All the criticism of Jay is beginning to ruin my enjoyment of the show. I love watching Jay and if they did 'ban' him I would stop watching.

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