Good post...just for the record though, who do people seriously believe are the REAL 'absolute beginners' in this series?
My list reads carol,anthony,jeremy,ainsley and Iwan...maybe daniel too?? YOU decide!

I wonder though wouldn't Anthony have done a bit of ballet? I thought it was quite common for boxers.

He's a Ringah!!!!! 😂

(Obviously a joke but the ballet question is serious)

I agree, thoughI think Kirsty, Katie and Anita haven't got much training. Kirsty did ballet when she was child. the way Katie stands and her legs... Probably did some ballet too. Anita not sure, but I would imagine she did gymnastics or something at school.
Daniel did Irish dancing.

I remember someone mentioning Abbey have had training...I ended up having a look around the web and the choreographer the group worked with said it was about a month in total of girl-band choreography tuition. Hardly ringer level stuff!

About as semi pro as a dancing bear

I always find it odd that people are surprised that celebs well mainly actors and musicians have done some dancing previously, many have gone to a performing arts / drama school so will have done as routine. However the type of dancing most who have entered the competition over the years will have done such as ballet or modern style dance does not help them with ballroom dancing and the like , it may help with nerves when putting their feet to music but not much more. If you try and find celebs who have never done any dancing then it will all be weather presenters, chefs and tv presenters ( and many of the females out of those will have done ballet etc as a child as many little girls do)

Ballet definitely involves many skills that will help enormously with ballroom and Latin. It's considered an excellent base upon which to learn other dances.

Posture, balance, musical interpretation, spins/spotting, flexibility, lines, choreography, core strength, ease of movement...

If all 15 were complete new beginners like the above, I wouldn't even start watching until the middle of the series

It's very hard to learn the earthiness/grounding required, but learning it rapidly after years of Ballet (where the opposite, seeming to be weightless, is worked at) is gonna be pretty tough.

Darcey's Jive makes me cringe, for example.

I think it's right to say that ballet has many transferable skills, I'm just not at all convinced it's all helpful when you have three days to learn the opposite.

But the thing is, very few celebs manage to really get that earthiness anyway. I think years of ballet might be a hindrance if you were to switch over into competitive ballroom/Latin dance, but for the purposes of Strictly - pros can work around shortcomings and utilise all the skills ballet provides to pull off excellent performances.

I do agree that Darcey's jive was quite odd looking though

I don't disagree with you - but plenty of us out here aren't fooled by that stuff, we're really geeking out on the specific techniques and when celebs DO achieve it, even momentarily, we celebrate with them (and don't give two hoots if they did four years at Sylvia Young/are pro gymnasts/ice dancers etc).

For me, good style is only ever achieved by good technique, everything else looks hollow, even if when it's beautiful. The more prior training they have, the higher my expectations

It's the oddest looking thing, isn't it?

But then, I guess if you line pro Ballet dancers and Latin dancers up next to each other they look as different as pro marathon runners and pro sprinters. Some of it is physiology, some is muscle memory.

I actually think that weirdo Jive she did with Ian is the real reason why she always makes excuses on behalf of tall celebs, "The Jive is NOT EASY for tall men like you" etc etc.

Yes, I do know what you mean. It certainly is wonderful when someone like Jay comes along and really impresses with his technique, regardless of any prior experience.

As for Darcey, yes, you're probably right. But also, the judges seem to say about every single dance to the duffers "well, x is a such a difficult dance and you came out and gave it your best go"

I just hope he gets better and better and we can see him transition from his past dance training into a genuinely good ballroom and latin dancer, no matter how subtle the transition might be, I'm really hoping we can discern it. It's exciting!

Ha - yes, true - with the emphasis on SUCH

Can someone put up the rules of this dance competition please. Interesting to see what the rules say about previous dance experience

I don't really care about the previous training, if it turned out that someone had already been fully trained in Latin and Ballroom then I think it would be an issue. This thread is so long so I haven't read it all, if Jay did have Latin/Ballroom experience then as the competition goes on the papers will start bringing it up more and more.

As great as the Jive was, I don't think he will win. The problem with being so good early on means that it's hard for you to make any enormous improvements as the weeks go by. Even if he remains at a similar level, getting 8's, 9's and 10's I still think someone like Katie, Peter or Anita might win it as they have more scope to improve.

Look at Ricky Whittle, Rachel Stevens, Denise Van Outen etc. From what I remember all of them were fairly good from the outset but none of them ended up winning the show because the public normally back someone who was either useless to start and has improved or someone who was average but gradually improved as time went on.

Jay's Waltz in hold after 4 weeks training with Aliona IMO doesn't look as good as Harry's was after 5 weeks training with Aliona.

Apart from 1 week learning a Paso with Ola (for which he was penalised a weeks training with Aliona), I can't find another example of Harry having dance training except a very short routine he was taught by some dancers who toured with McFly. I've never seen anyone else find any either.

We shall see in the Quickstep how Jay after his previous training and 6 weeks training with Aliona compares to Harry Judd after 1 week training with Ola and 10 weeks training with Aliona.
Unfortunately I can't find a video of the quickstep from week 9, but the main difference 3 weeks later was the venue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jIbaF53vrM

In my view ballroom Jive is incredibly naff and so far removed from the real thing to be a cartoon version. If someone had actually taught Darcey a Swing version she would have looked a heck of a lot better.

The ballroom Jive came from Arthur Murray's East Coast Swing which used Lindy as its basis. AM just made is easier for ordinary people to do. Ballroom then pumped it up on steroids and exaggerated every move to a point of ridiculousness.

I remember having to learn the ballroom version after two cool years of East Coast and West Coast Swing and thinking, 'hell, what did they do to the Jive?'.

Diamond - you'll know what I mean.

Reply to wrong thread. Deleted.

I think if somebody did ballet and was any good at it, if nothing else it gives them a discipline to learn a choreography. I think if Jay is hindered by anything it's his performance anxiety. After a few times I think he now knows what to expect and can concentrate more on the routine. Also Aliona knows now what he can do and can adjust her plans.

There are no rules. It is not a dance competition. It's a Saturday night entertainment show.

Surely the dire choice of totally inappropriate music is a bit of a give away?

I found this video which unfortunately mixes the dance from week 12 with the comments from week 9. The week 9 dance seems to be almost impossible to find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s948HURqKa0

To be fair, it's hardly surprising if people jump to the conclusion that doing ballet also makes you an expert ballroom/Latin dancer and therefore view celebs who have done ballet as 'ringahs'...the show itself appointed a ballerina as a judge of ballroom dancing.

Yup! But despite being well versed in the history of the dance and how Jive entered the 10 dance category, I manage to suspend disbelief and retain my happy-clappy-polly-anna status by ignoring history and treating them as two separate entities

I also prefer to just not think about West Coast Swing at all, seeing as it is in fact proof that doing traditional dances to non-traditional songs WILL NOT END WELL IN THE LONG TERM (but funnily enough, love watching the exact same dancers when they crossover to Carolina Shag).

I actually have a question about a particular Jive step that does not compute in my tiny mind - will probably ask in the Ballroom thread, but I'd like to know what you think too (and I know that one isn't your usual preferredhang out spot!)