One thing that dance classes gives you is the abilty to remember the steps of a routine. This doesn't, of course, make a poor dancer any better but helps put a dance over to the audience.
Jay - previous dance training
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The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.”
“The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.”
I kind of agree with you, but they have plenty of traditionally-does-well-on-strictly-stereotypes in this line up. Who would have guess that a young, good looking olympian with a new pro would go out on week 2?
Originally Posted by Gill P:
“One thing that dance classes gives you is the abilty to remember the steps of a routine. This doesn't, of course, make a poor dancer any better but helps put a dance over to the audience.”
“One thing that dance classes gives you is the abilty to remember the steps of a routine. This doesn't, of course, make a poor dancer any better but helps put a dance over to the audience.”
Only if you are good at it. And if you are you'd pick it up anyway. If you don't have talent, dance lessons may manage to keep you in the competition longer, but eventually trained or untrained talents will take over.
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.”
“The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.”
How does being male give him a head start?
Originally Posted by Lou_Black:
“How does being male give him a head start?”
“How does being male give him a head start?
”
I'd imagine it would only give an advantage in terms of Darcey's marking...she made it pretty clear she's hoping for a male winner this year,
Originally Posted by Lou_Black:
“How does being male give him a head start?”
“How does being male give him a head start?
”
There is a bias towards boys in dance - always has been, perhaps simply because in the real world, male dancers are less common. It's not a SCD thing. Darcy definitely suffers from it (doesn't even try and hide it) probably an overhang from her ballet past.
I posted about it somewhere last night. Forget where!
Originally Posted by DiamondBetty:
“There is a bias towards boys in dance - always has been, perhaps simply because in the real world, male dancers are less common. It's not a SCD thing. Darcy definitely suffers from it (doesn't even try and hide it) probably an overhang from her ballet past.
I posted about it somewhere last night. Forget where!”
“There is a bias towards boys in dance - always has been, perhaps simply because in the real world, male dancers are less common. It's not a SCD thing. Darcy definitely suffers from it (doesn't even try and hide it) probably an overhang from her ballet past.
I posted about it somewhere last night. Forget where!”
I can understand that in the dance world but not really on Strictly. The female dancers have the snazzier outfits for a start! They don't have to lead so I presume it is "easier" for them than the men?
Women have typically more to do in a dance than men. But a man has to lead. And he cannot just stand there. Being a man certainly did not help Iwan or Anthony.
Originally Posted by Nina_Blake:
“I'd imagine it would only give an advantage in terms of Darcey's marking...she made it pretty clear she's hoping for a male winner this year,”
“I'd imagine it would only give an advantage in terms of Darcey's marking...she made it pretty clear she's hoping for a male winner this year,”
Because they have had 2 female winners on the trot and 2 winners of the same gender - whichever it is - gives the PthatB the wibbles.
The Artistic Director of the Dance College Jay attended talking about Jay at 1 hr 13 minutes in this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03381b2#play
Also at 1:23:30, some current students talking about the courses, (no mention of Ballroom or Latin), and how Jay is performing the character of the dance and going back to his normal self after the dance.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03381b2#play
Also at 1:23:30, some current students talking about the courses, (no mention of Ballroom or Latin), and how Jay is performing the character of the dance and going back to his normal self after the dance.
Originally Posted by Lou_Black:
“I can understand that in the dance world but not really on Strictly. The female dancers have the snazzier outfits for a start! They don't have to lead so I presume it is "easier" for them than the men?”
“I can understand that in the dance world but not really on Strictly. The female dancers have the snazzier outfits for a start! They don't have to lead so I presume it is "easier" for them than the men?”
But on Strictly everyone feels more sympathetic to the boys (true beginner leaders DO have a sharper learning curve in most dances, but after a while it evens out and ultimately both roles are equally difficult and equally as valuable) plus the voters are mostly (allegedly female) and we vote with our ovaries (or at least, that's what we've been accused of on the forum over the last few years).
Originally Posted by DiamondBetty:
“But on Strictly everyone feels more sympathetic to the boys (true beginner leaders DO have a sharper learning curve in most dances, but after a while it evens out and ultimately both roles are equally difficult and equally as valuable) plus the voters are mostly (allegedly female) and we vote with our ovaries (or at least, that's what we've been accused of on the forum over the last few years).”
“But on Strictly everyone feels more sympathetic to the boys (true beginner leaders DO have a sharper learning curve in most dances, but after a while it evens out and ultimately both roles are equally difficult and equally as valuable) plus the voters are mostly (allegedly female) and we vote with our ovaries (or at least, that's what we've been accused of on the forum over the last few years).
”
Ah okay, the old voting ovary argument - can't disagree with that one!
Originally Posted by DiamondBetty:
“
I also prefer to just not think about West Coast Swing at all, seeing as it is in fact proof that doing traditional dances to non-traditional songs WILL NOT END WELL IN THE LONG TERM (but funnily enough, love watching the exact same dancers when they crossover to Carolina Shag).
I actually have a question about a particular Jive step that does not compute in my tiny mind - will probably ask in the Ballroom thread, but I'd like to know what you think too (and I know that one isn't your usual preferred hang out spot!)”
“
I also prefer to just not think about West Coast Swing at all, seeing as it is in fact proof that doing traditional dances to non-traditional songs WILL NOT END WELL IN THE LONG TERM (but funnily enough, love watching the exact same dancers when they crossover to Carolina Shag).
I actually have a question about a particular Jive step that does not compute in my tiny mind - will probably ask in the Ballroom thread, but I'd like to know what you think too (and I know that one isn't your usual preferred hang out spot!)”
I actually HATE what they have done to West Coast Swing now and find the current style sick making! When I did it (1980s) it still had a Lindy feel and was danced to proper swing music. All that slithering about and spinny turns guff they do now is just vile.
Hmmm. I'll go and have a look, but yes that thread is SO not me! But for you though I'll make that sacrifice
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.”
“The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.”
That's precisely how I feel. As excellent as Jay was last Saturday, any real interest in the show this year on my part has pretty much evaporated. I'd be very happy to be proven wrong though.
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.”
“The point being totally ignored is the head start that Jay had even without the training - male, young and in a band. Chances are that would have been good enough in itself to see him close to the top of the pile even without any dance training. Add in the dance training and the show as a competition has ended. The BBC must have had a pretty good idea this was going to happen and they were happy to sacrifice the competition element in order to promote the show to a younger audience.
It would be a different scenario if this was a celebrity, say in their forties who had some training 20 or more years ago. Any advantage there would be far less significant.”
Nicky Byrne, member of a much more famous band, didn't do that well. It's not a given.
Originally Posted by perdiedumpling:
“Nicky Byrne, member of a much more famous band, didn't do that well. It's not a given.”
“Nicky Byrne, member of a much more famous band, didn't do that well. It's not a given.”
Nicky looked good before Strictly. I wonder how he would have done if paired with Aliona.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck7l3e_uGFA
Originally Posted by Lou_Black:
“Ah okay, the old voting ovary argument - can't disagree with that one!”
“Ah okay, the old voting ovary argument - can't disagree with that one!
”
But...but...but...there's Aljaz, and Pasha, and now Gleb as well as a boyband member. How many ovaries do the PTB think I've got?
Originally Posted by Muggsy:
“But...but...but...there's Aljaz, and Pasha, and now Gleb as well as a boyband member. How many ovaries do the PTB think I've got?”
“But...but...but...there's Aljaz, and Pasha, and now Gleb as well as a boyband member. How many ovaries do the PTB think I've got?”
I was just thinking that. The ovaries thing goes in favour of both male and female celebrities. I started a thread asking how much pull has the pro in making a pair a favourite and it is pretty huge how much the pro influences. I don't think many will admit, but the levels of Pasha adoration are partly ovary related.
Originally Posted by perdiedumpling:
“Nicky Byrne, member of a much more famous band, didn't do that well. It's not a given.”
“Nicky Byrne, member of a much more famous band, didn't do that well. It's not a given.”
And he was more handsome and Irish!
But he had Karen as a pro.
Looks to me as if many of them have had some training at some level, few gave been to drama school..some been trained by professional choreographers during their career I am just looking to be wowed talent us t aren't at the end of the day .....if a total noob could from scratch pull it of brilliant if not then let the best person win previous training if not as long as they are not Wayne sleep in guise bring it on
Originally Posted by Lou_Black:
“I can understand that in the dance world but not really on Strictly. The female dancers have the snazzier outfits for a start! They don't have to lead so I presume it is "easier" for them than the men?”
“I can understand that in the dance world but not really on Strictly. The female dancers have the snazzier outfits for a start! They don't have to lead so I presume it is "easier" for them than the men?”
Not sure that dancing backwards in high heels would be easier!
Originally Posted by marinamau:
“And he was more handsome and Irish!
But he had Karen as a pro.”
“And he was more handsome and Irish!
But he had Karen as a pro.”
Jay is far better looking....and English.
I think people confuse whether it's harder for men to dance and whether it's harder for men to do well on Strictly. There have been six male winners and six female winners so that would suggest it's much the same for both gender, although the finishing positions for women on average are better, and the gap is now increasing with every series more or less - I think the public are a bit over "the men have to lead!" and "the men have to do lifts!!!" compared to where they were around Series 3/4/5. Thankfully we seem to have moved on.
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