I've never lead - but I do dance as a follower and my gut reaction is that it is easier to get the steps right if you're a beginner follower dancing with a pro lead.

I agree with DiamondBetty (and also asks that she does post about the jive step in latin and ballroom questions as I'm super interested!) that it does all even out eventually though.

I also agree with Monkseal that for the purposes of strictly it probably doesn't make a huge amount of difference.

I would absolutely agree with this! I go to dance class once a week and dance with my friend - we do take turns at being the lead BUT we both struggle at leading HOWEVER when we both dance with our teacher its so much easier to get right - he has been dancing since he was a teen and has competed all around the world (I would guess he is now in his late forties, early fifties) but having a male lead that knows what they are doing its far easier to follow

Totally agree with this - in ballroom, salsa, swing and AT. A good lead is a godsend to a follower.

It takes ages for a man to learn how to lead well and with confidence.

I don't care much about dance training in a celeb provided it does not make them the dead cert winner. Mostly it hasn't but this year may change that if Jay wins, which is looking quite likely and we are only approaching week 4! If Jay sustains his momentum I will lose interest in the show, as I did when Louis Smith won. What I most dislike is an obvious winner so early. It's then that I start grumbling about dance training!

I do not think that having previous dance experience means that the celeb is assured the win like with all the others the viewers who vote and the judges will want to see progression so at what ever level they start at they all have to work and move it on - if Jay doesnt then he would probably not win it and if he does then he will deserve to do so

This with bells AND knobs on.

Nothing personal to Jay himself but I don't want to sit and watch pure perfection week in week out. Seeing the growth in both ability and confidence is where its at and that's why Chelsee Healey remains one of my favourite ever contestants on SCD even though I didn't know her from Adam when her series began. Her blossoming through the show was captivating.

Imagine the scenario if ANY contestant scores a perfect 40 next week. Personally, there will be no where to go after this and the rest of the series will not be worth watching. I would much rather watch a series of triumphs and downright failures (Michael Vaughan jive anyone?) with a sprinkling of unpredictability (Vaughan AS) thrown in for good measure.

I thought we were all in agreement that the best dancer doesn't always win (and in itself .. it's very subjective anyway .. we all have differing opinions on it.) But the person who is the best dancer AND the most likable (I know .. that's subjective too) has a very, very good chance and I personally think that person is Jay.

Interesting- I was pleased when Louis finally won -I loved his showdance- but I never felt he was a dead cert to win and was actually hoping Kimberley would. Early on I truly felt that Dani Harmer, DVO and Kimberley had a chance.

I suppose I'm bad at picking up on zeitgeist but at least it means I'm kept in suspense.

I loved Chelsee too but if you look at her scores the lowest she got was 27 in the first week, then she progressed from there so she was hardly a novice when she started. Funnily enough her 27 was for her waltz to See the Day. I wont hide the fact that I love watching Jay and as a person but, just because he got 37 last week doesn't mean that he is going to do this every week and take the glitter ball. The final say will be down to the public. I think we all watch and enjoy the programme for different reasons and, if people feel that Jay has an unfair advantage, then he wont win.

I don't mind no hopers in the first few weeks but I get annoyed when they stay at the expense of people who are good to watch. I enjoyed watching Mark Benton and Steve Backshall but they went when the time was right.

I loved Chelsee, she's one of my favourites too, completely agree with you there. She's why I can't be against stage school people, because I supported Chelsee and she wasn't a beginner - you can tell by her lovely arms and her jive, just the same as Jay. She had a good grounding on which to become great week by week as she grew in confidence, and it was great - and not at all boring - to watch.

Really? Now I honestly did not know that Chelsee was trained. I'm surprised because I distinctly remember her being picked out as one of the worst in the inaugural group dance of that series.

Jay was dire in the group opener too..

Was thinking the same!

I had expected him to wipe the floor with everyone in the group dance (à la Pixie) but he barely moved at all!

And Jamelia looked great in the opening dance - confident and rhythmical anyway - and yet she's struggling.

Yep, he was! He never looks that great in training either, but then shines on the night.

I'm lucky in that I simply do not care who wins. It's not a though they get anything of value. I just love seeing people learn to dance and then shine on the floor.

I just tend to fast forward the bits that are really dire, including anything that Len or Bruno ever say, about anything.

Both very true - maybe this says something about the relationship they have with their pros and the suitability of their pros teaching style.

Neither Aliona nor Tristian probably taught the celebs the group dance - well, not directly anyway. However, from that group dance, Jay seems to have blossomed with Aliona whereas Jamelia has dipped with Tristian

The pros don't teach the celebs the opening group number on an individual basis. It's all a bit of a melting pot, swapping partners and with the choreographer there because they aren't actually supposed to be paired up at that point

I was going to write something similar, but then you said it much better than I could.

Also, speaks of hard graft and/or ability to properly learn. Jamelia probably has some natural talent, but she either doesn't put the effort or training does not make a difference.

As has been said in previous series at the end of the day it's a light entertainment show, in reference to people like John Sergent and Ann Widdicome. Which means if the public like you you do well ( Chris Hollins). Jay is doing well on both points, he is a good dancer and a very likability person. Even Tess & Claudia seem to have taken to him.

Just as I said...


Truth be told, Jay's victory or not will come down to which voice is the loudest over how fair is it for him to be "competing" against other celebrities who were miles behind him from Day One...

And don't get what you mean by "even Tess & Claudia". Do they usually hate the celebrities?

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It takes a long time for a man to learn to lead ballroom properly. I'm talking Professional or top Amateur here, but when they are so experienced, they can lead you into any group and you know exactly what they are doing. It is essential to be able to relax and follow your partner, as in many competitions, there are so many couples on the floor, it is impossible to keep to a routine, the man has to literally think on his feet and dance into where the space is on the floor, with the lady just having to follow and go with it.

The loudest voice will be the show's producers. It will be who they want to win at the end of the day.

I'm a big Chelsee fan.

I could see she was one of the best in the group dance because someone bumped into her and she was able to momentarily joke with them and pick up the routine again - plus she added her own embellishment at one point.

She had done some dancing as a child, but I don't think it was a major help to her. She was working long hours and had low training time, but was a fast learner.

[quote=DiamondBetty;79993709]

I also prefer to just not think about West Coast Swing at all, seeing as it is in fact proof that doing traditional dances to non-traditional songs WILL NOT END WELL IN THE LONG TERM (but funnily enough, love watching the exact same dancers when they crossover to Carolina Shag).

I actually have a question about a particular Jive step that does not compute in my tiny mind - will probably ask in the Ballroom thread,

Please do...the Professionals here will surely know the answer..