He didn't get nines , he got four sevens and that was a fair mark. Jay's dance was outstanding, best jive ever in my opinion, fantastic choreography.

Thanks for that extra information. I didn't know what level the dance classes he went to were, or how frequently he attended in the 6 years.

Erm .. neither of which teach contemporary dance on a formal basis. They are stage schools. Hamilton's has courses in cheer-leading for heaven's sake!

If he had gone to Rambert or Laban I'd take it seriously but Musical Theatre? Oh gimme a break!

Musical theatre mostly. Neither teach formal courses in contemporary dance. They teach basic rudiments so you don't fall over in stage and can do a bit of tap.

Add in some disabled people and you could call it Dancing with the Stars?

My sentiments exactly. It's amazing how loud people cry 'foul!' and read all sorts into the contestant's personalities when someone is really good.

I'm not sure Rambert would teach any ballroom or Latin; you take classes in both for the 2nd year of the Musical Theatre diploma at Nottingham. It's not going to make you a Ballroom champion but it is a significant advantage on Strictly.

As I've said in multiple other threads (and even showed a video), I go to general level jazz classes. There are people within the same class who are really good, who teach beginners in other places or work as ice dancers or have to do a certain amount of dance as they perform as singers in musical theatre. There are also people (like me) who go to the same class but only do it as a form of exercise and for fun. We tend to be less good compared to the musical theatre performers as we don't have to do it for a living.

But we do the same classes.


So within the same dance school/ musical theatre course etc. there will be really good dancers and less good dancers.

The best person in Nottingham may be better than the worst person at Laban. I don't think you can judge based on the school......

Have you seen the YouTube link floating around the forum? His training looked extensive and at a very high level. There were even some partnered dancing routines. I honestly don't know how people are pooh-poohing his experience.

Anyone with dance training formally shouldn't be allowed

I think you'd find there'd be a big shortage of actors and pop artists if that were the case. But as for Jay, he has had much more experience than the average stage school pupil, who focus on various disciplines of the arts, not just dance.

Rambert is NOT a ballroom school. You have entirely missed the point I was making.

I really do not see your point at all. Ballroom? Que? Who was talking about ballroom? Certainly not me.

I was referring to this mad claim that Jay is a trained contemporary dancer - which is utter rubbish. If he was he'd have gone to somewhere decent like or Laban or Rambert and THAT was my point.

Musical theatre teaches students a smattering of stage and tap to get by. They are NOT dance schools.

As for ballroom - well there is a positive rash of those in places like Penge but I was referring to proper dance training.

That would mean 80% of those who take part in SCD would be banned!

Where do you think most of those soap operas get their Z-list cast of 'actors'.? Yep, stage schools. And all stage schools teach dance - as in stage dance.

No one can agree on what 'formal dance training' means though. That is the problem.



People who have done any form of dance classes at any level or any age can probably spot and do a few turns and spins in a row, but it doesn't mean that they have done ballroom or latin before....

I actually don't care, just like I don't care that Helen has had dance training.

I think it helps when they have had some training. Makes it more entertaining to watch. Who wants to watch complete novices stumping around all night?

Yes, I've seen them. High level? Are you kidding? They are stage school productions with really basic choreography in a form we call 'commercial dance' which is a hybrid of hop hop, stage and street.

Not difficult at all. Mind you I do know what I am looking at. To an untrained eye they might look impressive, but in actual fact they're all pretty basic.

So you'd be happy for a contingent made up of the likes of John Sargeant, Ann Widdecombe, Judy Murray, Russell Grant etc ahead of the likes of Natalie G, Flackers, Jay etc?

I think the argument of "It wasn't ballroom or Latin though" is pretty tenuous though. I think anyone who has been to an institution solely dedicated to dance (like Jay) is going to be leagues ahead of the beginners (and even stage school pupils). Although I like him, I do think it's against the spirit of Strictly having someone with his experience on board.

I suppose it detracts from those 'Boy-Bands-Who-Play-Instruments' when their **stage** background becomes known. I have no problems with any actor or musician taking part - but it is hardly a level playing field. The TRUE amateurs are at the bottom half of the board - those who studied dance at some level are in the top half.

But the viewers are fickle. Many actors have fallen by the wayside in the final stages - Pixie Lot, Denise Van Outen etc - in favour of someone who is perceived to have had a (sorry!) "journey".

Hello, can you hear us from up there?

Yes, I believe in comparison to what is done at stage schools, the dancing shown in that video is quite high level and polished. It certainly would be easy for anyone with that sort of training to get 10s on Strictly transferring those skills to the ballroom.

True.

Most people don't know what it is. They think any kind of dance is training and it isn't. For those of us who have actually trained for years, that kind of view is just daft.

I'd say if you haven't put in at least 8 years of training and daily classes at a recognised school/s, plus one to one work and follow on work, you are not trained.

Street dance is different, but good dancers train every day religiously and combine dance with body work and hours of practice.

Pixie and Denises dance training was mentioned a few times though (as Helens is now) but I think a lot of the public are unaware that Jay has had dance training...so for them, the perceived 'journey' will still be relevant for Jay

Glad it's not just me. Especially the BIB.

TBH, I genuinely can't understand the attraction or appeal of the alternative.

Not to me, and I am a trained dancer. Feel free to disagree. I am not bothered.

At least I do know what I am talking about, but you are - of course - entitled to your view.

I do respectfully disagree. The judges themselves have decades of dance experience behind them, but they frequently make questionable comments that many disagree with.