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Not so sure about anton now.
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differentdrum
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by dd23:
“For every "apologist" on here there are at two or three who are desperate to hang him out to dry when things don't go to plan, as was plainly the case last night.

As mentioned elsewhere he choreographed a perfectly acceptable Cha Cha two years ago for Fiona, but she had trouble remembering it and kept stepping off on the wrong foot. The choreography was not the issue.

If they get through I'll be interested to hear what has happened with regard to this dance, he's already said that he pitched it wrongly and hopefully they improve from this.

I think it's worth remembering is that what has actually happened here is a disappointing dance after two weeks where they as a couple surpassed expectations by a country mile. |If anyone wishes to cast their minds back to pre show predictions Katie moved fairly freely between the "middle of the road" and the "duffer" category.

The fact that she performed so well in those two weeks is as much due to Anton's input as is the disappointment last night, and remember the dances are coming round faster now, they had a total of four weeks for the first two dances, and I'd be surprised if it was all spent on the jive.

If they remain hopefully it's a blip, and I quite agree that he should be looking for some help with the latin side of it, there are quite a few eventual winners who had bad dances, ended up in dance offs and came back stronger for it.”

There is a wider world than this forum. I am sure plenty of people could see potential after the opening show. The people on here who had her down as a 'duffer' were clearly wrong, although some of them, particularly after last night, are no doubt keen to hang on to that initial thought.

The expectation was high last night on account of one good and one very good dance in the first two weeks. How much that start had to do with Anton and how much natural talent nobody can be too sure but it was that promising start which made last night such a disappointment.

As regards Anton it isn't a case of after timing. Lots of people flagged him up as a handicap from the moment they were paired together.
IvanIV
11-10-2015
Whatever the reason, it was an excuse and rather insulting towards his partner. But that's Anton, me me bloody me, the Lord of Cha Cha Cha, thought my partner could not put one foot in front of the other.
MaggieMcGee
11-10-2015
Watched their dance again and picked up some faltering in Katie's leg during a short section of moving in what I believe are cha cha cha walks. She faltered with the move where she had to slide one leg beneath Anton as well. For some reason she seems to lack confidence in the dance in spite of the beaming smile. I suspect she could not perform the leg movement but I'm sure she could have walked a little more than she did.

I like them still as a pair and hope that she improves with this as a dance that's not for her.
differentdrum
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by MaggieMcGee:
“Watched their dance again and picked up some faltering in Katie's leg during a short section of moving in what I believe are cha cha cha walks. She faltered with the move where she had to slide one leg beneath Anton as well. For some reason she seems to lack confidence in the dance in spite of the beaming smile. I suspect she could not perform the leg movement but I'm sure she could have walked a little more than she did.

I like them still as a pair and hope that she improves with this as a dance that's not for her.”

Given that routine to work with I would have thought just about anyone would have lacked confidence.
csiaddict71
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by CravenHaven:
“Perhaps he has booked a cruise, eh? ”

Or been booked for the Christmas show and doesn't want to have to train 2 women at once !
dd23
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“There is a wider world than this forum. I am sure plenty of people could see potential after the opening show. The people on here who had her down as a 'duffer' were clearly wrong, although some of them, particularly after last night, are no doubt keen to hang on to that initial thought.

The expectation was high last night on account of one good and one very good dance in the first two weeks. How much that start had to do with Anton and how much natural talent nobody can be too sure but it was that promising start which made last night such a disappointment.

As regards Anton it isn't a case of after timing. Lots of people flagged him up as a handicap from the moment they were paired together.”

Thanks for the heads up with regard to the outside world.

I find it interesting that you reckon "nobody can be too sure" how much the opening good and very good dances had to do with Anton versus Katie's natural talent, and yet when the bad dance happened the blame has to be laid squarely on Anton's shoulders.

Either he deserves credit and criticism for the former and the latter, or we are in the realms of when something bad happens its because of him and when something good happens its in spite of him.

You are correct to say that lots of people flagged him up from the moment they were paired together. They were equally if not more excited by the obvious calamity that as about to be visited upon the poor viewing millions when they heard that the first dance was a jive. "AN ANTON JIVE!!!" etc. etc.
The jive was pretty good, and the flaggers up were pretty quiet.

The Tango was probably a bit better. The Cha Cha he choreographed for Fiona was ok but she couldn't do it, so he can choreograph one.

As far as Katie is concerned who knows, maybe the Cha Cha wasn't for her, maybe he went too difficult and it wasn't working and they changed it late. Maybe they fell out. I want to hear an explanation before asking for someone's metaphorical head on a plate after what has been overall a better than expected start.
missfrankiecat
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by dd23:
“Thanks for the heads up with regard to the outside world.

I find it interesting that you reckon "nobody can be too sure" how much the opening good and very good dances had to do with Anton versus Katie's natural talent, and yet when the bad dance happened the blame has to be laid squarely on Anton's shoulders.

Either he deserves credit and criticism for the former and the latter, or we are in the realms of when something bad happens its because of him and when something good happens its in spite of him.

You are correct to say that lots of people flagged him up from the moment they were paired together. They were equally if not more excited by the obvious calamity that as about to be visited upon the poor viewing millions when they heard that the first dance was a jive. "AN ANTON JIVE!!!" etc. etc.
The jive was pretty good, and the flaggers up were pretty quiet.

The Tango was probably a bit better. The Cha Cha he choreographed for Fiona was ok but she couldn't do it, so he can choreograph one.

As far as Katie is concerned who knows, maybe the Cha Cha wasn't for her, maybe he went too difficult and it wasn't working and they changed it late. Maybe they fell out. I want to hear an explanation before asking for someone's metaphorical head on a plate after what has been overall a better than expected start.”

Agree with everything you say except for the last. I don't want to hear any explanation - it's unlikely to be the full truth for perfectly understandable reasons. What happened in rehearsal should stay there at this stage and move on. Strictly is a long haul and early 'wow' dancers rarely win. Anton has safely negotiated 2/3 of the party latins (subject to staying tonight) within the first three weeks when it doesn't matter and only has to do one more. That is an excellent draw for him at this stage.
dd23
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“Agree with everything you say except for the last. I don't want to hear any explanation - it's unlikely to be the full truth for perfectly understandable reasons. What happened in rehearsal should stay there at this stage and move on. Strictly is a long haul and early 'wow' dancers rarely win. Anton has safely negotiated 2/3 of the party latins (subject to staying tonight) within the first three weeks when it doesn't matter and only has to do one more. That is an excellent draw for him at this stage.”

Yes you're quite right Miss FC. Hopefully they stay in and get the Samba in two weeks time!
fayebeatle
11-10-2015
If I was Anton I'd pull a sickie, drop out of the series and let her carry on with another professional! He was pretty much saying ' it's my fault but not really, I can only do choreography to her ability! ' Beyond rude, he's past his best. I really don't know how he's hung on, he's cheesy, obviously pissed off he didn't replace Bruce.
He may be rubbish at Latin. But, why not do what other pro dancers do bring in an expert to help.
Last chance saloon for Mr Beak !
Bobby'sgirl
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by dd23:
“Have tried to remove my own post as going from the t&c I shouldn't have referred to it. Not a case of being offensive.”

dd23, thank you for clearing it up. Not sure if it was aimed at me and couldn't understand if it was me why it was me.

thanks again
Bobby'sgirl
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by MinaH:
“You gave a result away.”

What result, I was talking about the Saturday show, not the result show.

dd23 who I wrote too has answered me now so don't worry.
amelia_lee
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by Steve9214:
“Maybe - like a lot of things these days, if you want them done properly - whether it is plumbing, electrical work or a Cha Cha, you need to hire an Eastern European iimigrant.

PLEASE get Nigel Farage do the Strictly Xmas special !!!”

Oh my god, this is gold! Where is the post of the day thread, this deserves to go in it!
amelia_lee
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by differentdrum:
“Hard to believe the number of Anton apologists on here. Can only assume there is some sort of anti-Katie agenda going on.

There was no indication from the first two weeks that she wasn't able to make a decent fist of this dance. Maybe not a 30 dance but 25-26 should have been a distinct possibility. If there were problems (nothing in the short clip on Friday to suggest so) then it is up to Anton to bring out the improvement rather than just 'hang her out to dry' with a routine that had zero content.

That was the biggest drop in level I can ever remember. She went from a final contender to fighting off a potential dance-off in one week.

Unfortunately, partnered with Anton I can't really see a way back. He hasn't got the talent and he still sees the show as being about him and not his partner. Secretly, he has probably been very pleased with poorer partners because it hasn't exposed his limitations.”

This, this and this.
amelia_lee
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by bigbro24:
“What was that semi-circular move round the floor he did halfway through the dance while Katie was stood there doing nothing, he looked like a car salesman who lost his keys and was late for an appointment”

This was pretty much the worst part of it for me. Why was she not just doing some side to side cha cha steps, also the walking, couldn't he of made it cha cha walks at least, there is not a chance she couldn't do them.

There is no way he pitched this where she was, she is much better then that, even someone like Carol can manage more steps!

I am sorry, but the apologists are very wrong. If you can do a new yorker you can do many other combos of steps as they are all the same, just going in different directions. This is all on Anton and he is not good at latin, he barely does it in the pro dances anymore and when he does he looks bad and he was awful in the jive with Katie.

We here at mine think he has something on the producers to keep being asked back, if any other pro were that bad then they would be cut!
erin_p
11-10-2015
Originally Posted by Ches[B:
“hirecheese;79960550]Yes but they need someone who is very good at both as in the days[/b] when Matt Cutler and Ian Waite were on the programme. Anton's poor Latin is more obvious the older he gets, he doesnt seerm to take it seriously which is hard on his partner”

I agree, the longer Anton stays the more obvious it will become that he doesn't have both the disciplines needed to partner a celeb. I feel sorry for Katie, as the last thing Anton wanted was a celeb who could dance.
sonnyt
13-10-2015
I was shocked by Anton's poor choreography. How could a professional get it so wrong. Bizarrre
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