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New iPhone sim/network locks |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: England
Posts: 2,523
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New iPhone sim/network locks
Ok so a friend of mine has a new iPhone 6s as an upgrade from EE that he doesn't want it's still sealed in the box, if I buy it from him and put my SIM card in first (three network) will it work or are they locked to the network at the factory ?
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#2 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kent
Posts: 8,954
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It will be locked to the first SIM inserted, but apparently by inserting a three SIM first it will remain unlocked due to three not locking phones anymore.
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#3 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sandy Heath, Beds. UK
Posts: 10,378
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Quote:
Ok so a friend of mine has a new iPhone 6s as an upgrade from EE that he doesn't want it's still sealed in the box, if I buy it from him and put my SIM card in first (three network) will it work or are they locked to the network at the factory ?
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#4 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kent
Posts: 8,954
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Quote:
If it is an EE phone is will be locked to EE, surely?
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#5 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,640
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Quote:
I didn't think iPhones came already locked to a network and just locked to first SIM if bought anywhere other than Apple, or is that just if bought from CPW, Argos etc?
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sandy Heath, Beds. UK
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Quote:
I didn't think iPhones came already locked to a network and just locked to first SIM if bought anywhere other than Apple, or is that just if bought from CPW, Argos etc?
As has been debated before, it's only Carphone Warehouse that uses the 'first SIM' method. |
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#7 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,288
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Quote:
It will be locked to the first SIM inserted, but apparently by inserting a three SIM first it will remain unlocked due to three not locking phones anymore.
The "first SIM" activation status must be in the contract CPW have with Apple (as only Apple can set lock status!) to avoid them having to hold 3 or 4 sets of identical but differently locked iPhones for each network they sell. Quote:
If it is an EE phone is will be locked to EE, surely?
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#8 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,640
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Quote:
The "first SIM" activation status must be in the contract CPW have with Apple (as only Apple can set lock status!) to avoid them having to hold 3 or 4 sets of identical but differently locked iPhones for each network they sell.
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,288
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Quote:
Which is a pretty lazy approach IMO. They could set it up so that CPW can control the lock status of their phones, and if you buy a SIM free phone they could unlock it immediately upon sale
What you suggest is sensible but would need the ability for CPW to update the Apple database (but only for handsets supplied to them!!!!!) in real-time. I believe that unlock requests are NOT real-time and the networks simply request changes to Apple. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,644
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I wonder if the iphone becomes unlocked if you use a Three sim in a CPW iphone.
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,288
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Quote:
I wonder if the iphone becomes unlocked if you use a Three sim in a CPW iphone.
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,644
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So its as good as unlocked then https://www.three.co.uk/Support/Device_Unlock
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
So its as good as unlocked then https://www.three.co.uk/Support/Device_Unlock
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#14 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Quote:
Possibly!!! CPW handsets are a BIG problem on SOME networks (not sure about 3!!) as the network has no record of it being their stock or of selling the customer the phone (as is isn't and they didn't!!!!!) and so, from their perspective, the customer is asking them to unlock a random handset - which might not even be being used on their network!
If the phone is locked to the first SIM, then it probably is locked to them (again, presumably something that they can check - if there are third party services that can tell you an iPhone's lock status, then so can the networks) I think it's a silly idea that some networks (like EE) refuse to unlock second hand phones anyway. What difference does it make? |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,640
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Quote:
This may be largely historical - at one time it is said that ONLY Apple sold unlocked handsets. Now this isn't true (c.f. GiffGaff, John Lewis, Apple Resellers etc.)
What you suggest is sensible but would need the ability for CPW to update the Apple database (but only for handsets supplied to them!!!!!) in real-time. I believe that unlock requests are NOT real-time and the networks simply request changes to Apple. It wouldn't be totally outlandish to suggest that the networks already have some sort of direct link to Apple's unlock system - and that Apple themselves certainly do minimal checking (see the eBay services where randomers are able to sell unlock services) The other answer would be for CPW to sell totally unlocked phones. This is not unheard of - in times gone by (pre iPhone) I made sure people bought their subsidised phone via CPW because I knew they'd get an unlocked, unbranded handset |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
The answer to that would be simple. Put something on the form asking where you bought the phone, and to ask for a copy of the invoice/receipt if it wasn't directly from the network.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,288
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Quote:
I have heard of networks being able to request unlocks very quickly indeed (some people have reported 5 minutes from initial request on AT&T).
It wouldn't be totally outlandish to suggest that the networks already have some sort of direct link to Apple's unlock system - and that Apple themselves certainly do minimal checking (see the eBay services where randomers are able to sell unlock services) Also exactly how the 3rd-party iPhone unlocking services manage to insert their numbers into the Apple database is also unknown. Are they bribing some network staff who have access?? - if so it would not seem very secure as these staff could be discovered at any time!! Quote:
The other answer would be for CPW to sell totally unlocked phones. This is not unheard of - in times gone by (pre iPhone) I made sure people bought their subsidised phone via CPW because I knew they'd get an unlocked, unbranded handset
The likes of Vodafone, EE (and O2??) who have strict rules about when and if handsets can be unlocked might object if CPW were bypassing these!
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#18 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: England
Posts: 2,523
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So in theory an O2 upgrade will work on any network as long as the first sim put in is the sim inserted into the iPhone is from whatever network you want to use ?
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#19 |
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: This forum
Posts: 3,389
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Quote:
So in theory an O2 upgrade will work on any network as long as the first sim put in is the sim inserted into the iPhone is from whatever network you want to use ?
ANY other iPhone is locked to the network that sold it. Except those bought SIM free from Apple, GiffGaff etc. (Not Carphone). |
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,288
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Quote:
No! An O2 upgrade iPhone WILL be locked to O2 and you will need to get O2 to unlock it.
ANY other iPhone is locked to the network that sold it. Except those bought SIM free from Apple, GiffGaff etc. (Not Carphone). I got the Apple lock database readout (from an Internet supplier for ~70p) for my GiffGaff iPhone. This showed that GiffGaff are selling O2-supplied stock (in factory sealed boxes) - but, unlike O2 itself, the database entries for these must have been reset to unlocked before sale (they are unlocked from first activation) |
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: England
Posts: 2,523
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What about iD network from cpw, a friend just got a 6s on a 12 month contract from them but stuck an O2 sim in first and it worked fine on O2.
Gave the iD sim to his son to use in his phone |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: This forum
Posts: 3,389
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Quote:
What about iD network from cpw, a friend just got a 6s on a 12 month contract from them but stuck an O2 sim in first and it worked fine on O2.
iPhones sold in CPW are special and lock to first network SIM used. |
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#23 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: England
Posts: 2,523
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So all networks are locked to a network except cpw ?
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,640
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Quote:
So all networks are locked to a network except cpw ?
iPhones sold by a retail store other than CPW (so Apple and the others) will not be locked, and will stay unlocked. iPhones sold by CPW will initially be unlocked, but will then be locked to the network of the first SIM card that is used. If you put in an O2 SIM, it will lock to O2, and you would have to contact O2 to get it unlocked again. |
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,288
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Quote:
iPhones sold by CPW will initially be unlocked,....
![]() All of them acquire their preset lock status via a digitally signed secure web-service call on first (and subsequent) activations - and this gets cached on the handset until an unauthorised SIM is used - or a complete IOS restore - causes reactivation. Unlocked iPhones just acquire a "no locks set" status by the same process. My (GiffGaff supplied) iPhone 6 had (when I paid for its lock status) Initial Activation Policy Description: 269 - UK O2 Tesco Next Tether Policy Details: 10 - Unlock Lock Status: Unlocked |
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