Ok so a friend of mine has a new iPhone 6s as an upgrade from EE that he doesn't want it's still sealed in the box, if I buy it from him and put my SIM card in first (three network) will it work or are they locked to the network at the factory ?
New iPhone sim/network locks
1 of 2
It will be locked to the first SIM inserted, but apparently by inserting a three SIM first it will remain unlocked due to three not locking phones anymore.
Originally Posted by rottweiler:
“Ok so a friend of mine has a new iPhone 6s as an upgrade from EE that he doesn't want it's still sealed in the box, if I buy it from him and put my SIM card in first (three network) will it work or are they locked to the network at the factory ?”
“Ok so a friend of mine has a new iPhone 6s as an upgrade from EE that he doesn't want it's still sealed in the box, if I buy it from him and put my SIM card in first (three network) will it work or are they locked to the network at the factory ?”
If it is an EE phone is will be locked to EE, surely?
Originally Posted by Stig:
“If it is an EE phone is will be locked to EE, surely?”
“If it is an EE phone is will be locked to EE, surely?
”
I didn't think iPhones came already locked to a network and just locked to first SIM if bought anywhere other than Apple, or is that just if bought from CPW, Argos etc?
Originally Posted by -GONZO-:
“I didn't think iPhones came already locked to a network and just locked to first SIM if bought anywhere other than Apple, or is that just if bought from CPW, Argos etc?”
“I didn't think iPhones came already locked to a network and just locked to first SIM if bought anywhere other than Apple, or is that just if bought from CPW, Argos etc?”
That seems to be a CPW only thing
Originally Posted by -GONZO-:
“I didn't think iPhones came already locked to a network and just locked to first SIM if bought anywhere other than Apple, or is that just if bought from CPW, Argos etc?”
“I didn't think iPhones came already locked to a network and just locked to first SIM if bought anywhere other than Apple, or is that just if bought from CPW, Argos etc?”
eBay is full of 'upgrade' phones locked to their network.
As has been debated before, it's only Carphone Warehouse that uses the 'first SIM' method.
Originally Posted by -GONZO-:
“It will be locked to the first SIM inserted, but apparently by inserting a three SIM first it will remain unlocked due to three not locking phones anymore.”
“It will be locked to the first SIM inserted, but apparently by inserting a three SIM first it will remain unlocked due to three not locking phones anymore.”
This is NOT true!!! iPhones supplied to NETWORKS such as EE are locked as that network requests. For EE it will only accept an EE SIM.
The "first SIM" activation status must be in the contract CPW have with Apple (as only Apple can set lock status!) to avoid them having to hold 3 or 4 sets of identical but differently locked iPhones for each network they sell.
Originally Posted by Stig:
“If it is an EE phone is will be locked to EE, surely?”
“If it is an EE phone is will be locked to EE, surely?
”
Unlike most (all??) other phones the lock status of an iPhone is not set when it is manufactured - any iPhone downloads its "lock status" as set in Apple's database on activation - it won't activate until it contacts the Apple servers - either directly or via iTunes. For EE handsets this status will be set to "locked to EE"
Originally Posted by BKM:
“The "first SIM" activation status must be in the contract CPW have with Apple (as only Apple can set lock status!) to avoid them having to hold 3 or 4 sets of identical but differently locked iPhones for each network they sell.”
“The "first SIM" activation status must be in the contract CPW have with Apple (as only Apple can set lock status!) to avoid them having to hold 3 or 4 sets of identical but differently locked iPhones for each network they sell.”
Which is a pretty lazy approach IMO. They could set it up so that CPW can control the lock status of their phones, and if you buy a SIM free phone they could unlock it immediately upon sale
Originally Posted by moox:
“Which is a pretty lazy approach IMO. They could set it up so that CPW can control the lock status of their phones, and if you buy a SIM free phone they could unlock it immediately upon sale”
“Which is a pretty lazy approach IMO. They could set it up so that CPW can control the lock status of their phones, and if you buy a SIM free phone they could unlock it immediately upon sale”
This may be largely historical - at one time it is said that ONLY Apple sold unlocked handsets. Now this isn't true (c.f. GiffGaff, John Lewis, Apple Resellers etc.)
What you suggest is sensible but would need the ability for CPW to update the Apple database (but only for handsets supplied to them!!!!!) in real-time. I believe that unlock requests are NOT real-time and the networks simply request changes to Apple.
Originally Posted by AxeVictim:
“I wonder if the iphone becomes unlocked if you use a Three sim in a CPW iphone.”
“I wonder if the iphone becomes unlocked if you use a Three sim in a CPW iphone.”
No it won't - it will lock to the 3 network. You should be able to almost immediately request 3 to unlock it (after complying with any minimum use rules they might have to convince them you were, indeed, using the handset on their network!)
So its as good as unlocked then https://www.three.co.uk/Support/Device_Unlock
Originally Posted by AxeVictim:
“So its as good as unlocked then https://www.three.co.uk/Support/Device_Unlock”
“So its as good as unlocked then https://www.three.co.uk/Support/Device_Unlock”
Possibly!!! CPW handsets are a BIG problem on SOME networks (not sure about 3!!) as the network has no record of it being their stock or of selling the customer the phone (as is isn't and they didn't!!!!!) and so, from their perspective, the customer is asking them to unlock a random handset - which might not even be being used on their network!
Originally Posted by BKM:
“Possibly!!! CPW handsets are a BIG problem on SOME networks (not sure about 3!!) as the network has no record of it being their stock or of selling the customer the phone (as is isn't and they didn't!!!!!) and so, from their perspective, the customer is asking them to unlock a random handset - which might not even be being used on their network!”
“Possibly!!! CPW handsets are a BIG problem on SOME networks (not sure about 3!!) as the network has no record of it being their stock or of selling the customer the phone (as is isn't and they didn't!!!!!) and so, from their perspective, the customer is asking them to unlock a random handset - which might not even be being used on their network!”
The answer to that would be simple. Put something on the form asking where you bought the phone, and to ask for a copy of the invoice/receipt if it wasn't directly from the network.
If the phone is locked to the first SIM, then it probably is locked to them (again, presumably something that they can check - if there are third party services that can tell you an iPhone's lock status, then so can the networks)
I think it's a silly idea that some networks (like EE) refuse to unlock second hand phones anyway. What difference does it make?
Originally Posted by BKM:
“This may be largely historical - at one time it is said that ONLY Apple sold unlocked handsets. Now this isn't true (c.f. GiffGaff, John Lewis, Apple Resellers etc.)
What you suggest is sensible but would need the ability for CPW to update the Apple database (but only for handsets supplied to them!!!!!) in real-time. I believe that unlock requests are NOT real-time and the networks simply request changes to Apple.”
“This may be largely historical - at one time it is said that ONLY Apple sold unlocked handsets. Now this isn't true (c.f. GiffGaff, John Lewis, Apple Resellers etc.)
What you suggest is sensible but would need the ability for CPW to update the Apple database (but only for handsets supplied to them!!!!!) in real-time. I believe that unlock requests are NOT real-time and the networks simply request changes to Apple.”
I have heard of networks being able to request unlocks very quickly indeed (some people have reported 5 minutes from initial request on AT&T).
It wouldn't be totally outlandish to suggest that the networks already have some sort of direct link to Apple's unlock system - and that Apple themselves certainly do minimal checking (see the eBay services where randomers are able to sell unlock services)
The other answer would be for CPW to sell totally unlocked phones. This is not unheard of - in times gone by (pre iPhone) I made sure people bought their subsidised phone via CPW because I knew they'd get an unlocked, unbranded handset
Originally Posted by moox:
“The answer to that would be simple. Put something on the form asking where you bought the phone, and to ask for a copy of the invoice/receipt if it wasn't directly from the network.”
“The answer to that would be simple. Put something on the form asking where you bought the phone, and to ask for a copy of the invoice/receipt if it wasn't directly from the network.”
It is even easier than that! - the network gets the handset IMEI as well as the SIM number each time the handset connects so they should KNOW the handset works and has been used on their network. They just have to capture this fact!
Originally Posted by moox:
“I have heard of networks being able to request unlocks very quickly indeed (some people have reported 5 minutes from initial request on AT&T).
It wouldn't be totally outlandish to suggest that the networks already have some sort of direct link to Apple's unlock system - and that Apple themselves certainly do minimal checking (see the eBay services where randomers are able to sell unlock services)”
“I have heard of networks being able to request unlocks very quickly indeed (some people have reported 5 minutes from initial request on AT&T).
It wouldn't be totally outlandish to suggest that the networks already have some sort of direct link to Apple's unlock system - and that Apple themselves certainly do minimal checking (see the eBay services where randomers are able to sell unlock services)”
The exact details of how it works have never been explained - and may vary by network!
Also exactly how the 3rd-party iPhone unlocking services manage to insert their numbers into the Apple database is also unknown. Are they bribing some network staff who have access?? - if so it would not seem very secure as these staff could be discovered at any time!!
Quote:
“The other answer would be for CPW to sell totally unlocked phones. This is not unheard of - in times gone by (pre iPhone) I made sure people bought their subsidised phone via CPW because I knew they'd get an unlocked, unbranded handset”
“The other answer would be for CPW to sell totally unlocked phones. This is not unheard of - in times gone by (pre iPhone) I made sure people bought their subsidised phone via CPW because I knew they'd get an unlocked, unbranded handset”
The likes of Vodafone, EE (and O2??) who have strict rules about when and if handsets can be unlocked might object if CPW were bypassing these!
So in theory an O2 upgrade will work on any network as long as the first sim put in is the sim inserted into the iPhone is from whatever network you want to use ?
Originally Posted by rottweiler:
“So in theory an O2 upgrade will work on any network as long as the first sim put in is the sim inserted into the iPhone is from whatever network you want to use ?”
“So in theory an O2 upgrade will work on any network as long as the first sim put in is the sim inserted into the iPhone is from whatever network you want to use ?”
No! An O2 upgrade iPhone WILL be locked to O2 and you will need to get O2 to unlock it.
ANY other iPhone is locked to the network that sold it. Except those bought SIM free from Apple, GiffGaff etc. (Not Carphone).
Originally Posted by jchamier:
“No! An O2 upgrade iPhone WILL be locked to O2 and you will need to get O2 to unlock it.
ANY other iPhone is locked to the network that sold it. Except those bought SIM free from Apple, GiffGaff etc. (Not Carphone).”
“No! An O2 upgrade iPhone WILL be locked to O2 and you will need to get O2 to unlock it.
ANY other iPhone is locked to the network that sold it. Except those bought SIM free from Apple, GiffGaff etc. (Not Carphone).”
Yes - the Apple "lock database" is indexed by IMEI. At some point in the supply chain entries are created for phones supplied to networks to be locked however the network has specified.
I got the Apple lock database readout (from an Internet supplier for ~70p) for my GiffGaff iPhone. This showed that GiffGaff are selling O2-supplied stock (in factory sealed boxes) - but, unlike O2 itself, the database entries for these must have been reset to unlocked before sale (they are unlocked from first activation)
What about iD network from cpw, a friend just got a 6s on a 12 month contract from them but stuck an O2 sim in first and it worked fine on O2.
Gave the iD sim to his son to use in his phone
Gave the iD sim to his son to use in his phone
Originally Posted by rottweiler:
“What about iD network from cpw, a friend just got a 6s on a 12 month contract from them but stuck an O2 sim in first and it worked fine on O2.”
“What about iD network from cpw, a friend just got a 6s on a 12 month contract from them but stuck an O2 sim in first and it worked fine on O2.”
That iPhone will now be locked to O2.
iPhones sold in CPW are special and lock to first network SIM used.
Originally Posted by rottweiler:
“So all networks are locked to a network except cpw ?”
“So all networks are locked to a network except cpw ?”
iPhones sold by 3 and Giffgaff will not be locked. (3 does not lock any of their phones anymore). I believe O2, Vodafone and EE continue to lock their phones.
iPhones sold by a retail store other than CPW (so Apple and the others) will not be locked, and will stay unlocked.
iPhones sold by CPW will initially be unlocked, but will then be locked to the network of the first SIM card that is used. If you put in an O2 SIM, it will lock to O2, and you would have to contact O2 to get it unlocked again.
Originally Posted by moox:
“iPhones sold by CPW will initially be unlocked,....”
“iPhones sold by CPW will initially be unlocked,....”
Only in the sense that NO iPhone is ever locked when it is new and sealed inside its Apple box!
All of them acquire their preset lock status via a digitally signed secure web-service call on first (and subsequent) activations - and this gets cached on the handset until an unauthorised SIM is used - or a complete IOS restore - causes reactivation. Unlocked iPhones just acquire a "no locks set" status by the same process.
My (GiffGaff supplied) iPhone 6 had (when I paid for its lock status)
Initial Activation Policy Description: 269 - UK O2 Tesco
Next Tether Policy Details: 10 - Unlock
Lock Status: Unlocked
1 of 2
