BIB The poster said no such thing. They said that they were teaching someone who had some difficulties in certain areas (e.g. flexing legs) as a result of certain habits they had acquired when dancing ballet. . They raised the point very politely, and received a very discourteous response implying that it was nothing to do with the pupil and that they were a poor teacher. They in no way stated or implied that their pupil was incapable of learning ballroom or that they did not have other advantages e.g. in core strength.

As a Lindy Hop teacher (usually teaching adult beginners through intermediates) I can probably pretty accurately point out any follower on a social dance floor who has done more than a year or two of ballet. It's mostly a grounding thing, the dance-into-the-floor-earthiness is missing, although they tend to have lovely lines, especially through the arms. People with a Tap or Soca dance background do much better.

It's very hard to get stuff out of the muscle memory once it's in there!

I managed.

Of course you did. I'm not in any way surprised to hear that.

Hi DiamondBetty
I agree with all of this. My ballet student has the most amazing legs and feet for Rumba and her lines and arm positions are to die for. Something she does so very naturally and most of us have worked ( and paid a lot of money to learn) over the years to try and achieve. She does find it hard to settle into the hips and I saw on SCD recently, that Darcey Bussell said the very same thing, that its extremely hard for a trained ballet dancer to do this.

You beat me to it

Oh wait what the thing that Darcey , the world famous ballerina said was to do with being taught to pull up out of your hips into your core.

That thing, you know that involves strength in your core

Logic consistency manners, sense all things that are missing in this thread

Ok off now before this thread finally implodes into an ever decreasing hole of logic taking in everything about it.

Shame really as it started off as a humouress way to try and deflect the constant ring ah attacks and has turned into an attack on logic and sense !

As has been said many times, you can't teach talent.

Is it really illogical to say that some aspects of ballet are helpful in learning latin and ballroom and some aren't? And just because one ballet trained person manages every single aspect of dance with total ease that another may not?

Hush now, that's reasonable. Logic has no place in a witch hunt of a fellow poster.

Anyway, to get even slightly back on topic I'm sure my 6 years of Irish dancing would be very little help. My upper body just wouldn't know what to do, never mind actually touching a partner! However, the couple of years of AT at uni would be a different story, or at least it would seen as an enormous help, even though the hold is so different to all the ballroom dances.

Voice of reason, Ellie.

It seems perfectly fine to me Ellie.

hello Cadiva, I felt emotional when I danced with my son at his wedding recently but that clip is so moving, thanks for posting it .... and I hope you're feeling better and more *sparkly*

Went to ballet tap and contemporary every Saturday from 3-16. Not a chance in hell I could come close to what Jay did but I suspect I'd have Ringah stamped on my forehead despite never dancing since.

Bet you could pick up rhythm tap (hoofing) really easily from Irish dance though

I think no two people are ever the same anyway. Yes I was trained professionally in ballet but I also branched out into jazz,contemporary etc. So yes I do think I could pick Latin/ballroom up pretty easily and become pretty accomplished. That said I know many friends (still ballet dancing today) who would struggle with the technique needed for latin in particular. It's down to each individual.

Helen in particular is clearly so used to being poised and has picked up some 'bad habits' from her ballet training, hence her uphill struggle with Latin. Jay's experience with contemporary dance lends itself much better to other dance styles, contemporary dance is far less 'strict' and 'conformist' by nature.

I bet you really worked at it though, Kat! And it took longer than a few weeks too



I think this is a great way to point out that most of us are arguing the same thing from different viewpoints, just depends where our own specialist interest is. Previous ballet definitely helps with learning choreo, being able to perform on the night, working with a dance teacher, extended lines, turning technique. Probably hinders hip action, soft knees, being grounded and earthy, definitely hinders in media perception, possibly hinders with voters that love a journey (but pleases those of us that get the SHIVERS just thinking about an entire Widdie/Russell Grant/Nancy D/Judy Murray/ Michael Vaughn/Tim off the antiques thing type line up).


I did Ballet and Tap and Modern from 5-15, then started Swing dance in my early 20s and spent 15 plus years (couple of maternity breaks) learning a variety of stuff from Lindy Hop (my big love) to Charleston to Balboa, to vernacular Jazz, as a leader and a follower, and have been a local level teacher/organiser for more than 7 years.

And I still don't think I could Rhumba in 5 days, or Waltz, or Cha Cha, or AT. Not in a way that actually acknowledged the true basics and techniques of the dance, anyway.
I'd do a cracking ringer-y Charleston though!

This is the difference I think. I did the same. I went from ballet to flamenco , jazz, Cali and Cuban Salsa to ballroom and what I call Ballroom Latin. And sorry but I did NOT find the transition hard. I have said that all along, but sadly it has been ignored.

No two people are the same. The talent and ability will vary.

I have yet to see a ballroom trained person ever transition well to real Cuban Salsa or Argentine Tango. They cannot undo what they know.

As I have said before countless times, after a classic training in ballet, I also studied flamenco, Cali and Cuban salsa before I was headhunted to train in ballroom and Latin too teach for a US dance school. They also taught me East and West coast Swing and he Mambo (yay!).

My teachers were ex pro dancers and yes, I am as focused as hell The only dance which took me years to learn was Argentine Tango.

For that I had to undo everything I had ever learned in dance before.

I think you'd have to have a long career in ballet or other dancing to imprint on you that strongly that you cannot shake it. Or if nobody tells you that it's not idiomatic for a given dance and you fall back on what you know.

I rest my case, you are not a typical example, and not at all comparable to a Strictly ringah (although I imagine some of those are very determined underneath their "but I just sat on a chair, honest 'guv" personas)!

I'm so fascinated with AT. One of the very best swing dance leaders I know took some AT classes over the summer, he claimed he was awful at it maybe I'll make studying it full time my retirement plan?

Yes I think so too, although I know very little about Irish dancing. I'd love to get back to tap. I haven't done any since I was about 11 but it suited me as a dance style. I rarely see tap dancers where I have lessons, but we had a couple in recently and they seemed to be having terrific fun, although they were somewhat noisy (I was doing my teaching exam prep and every time I got asked a question my mind completely blanked out ).

I also keep meaning to go to a Charleston workshop as a taster, but have problems fitting it in my diary. . I suspect I might struggle although I'd like to find out.

I think you'd be surprised, even a short period of studying any dance can imprint on the muscle memory - especially if you studied it when young. It's a bit like learning to speak more than one language in that respect.
I would never have been a ballerina, I'm not the right shape, I never took it seriously, and I haven't danced it in 25plus years. But I still lapse into 3rd position-hands-behind-the-bum as if I'm waiting for ballet class to begin whenever I stand still, whether that's a supermarket checkout or a bus stop! Ballet has also given me several decades of good posture (and I constantly have to work at being grounded and dancing into the floor, rather than light, when I dance Lindy Hop, despite having danced it longer and more consistently than ballet).

The celebs have only a few days a week to manage a passable imitation of each dance, getting rid of habits under pressure of time whilst learning choreo thoroughly enough for immediate performance is a tough ask. Admittedly, it's not as big a hurdle as some slebs have to jump, but the expectations are higher. I'm fine with Ainslie coming out and being all performance, no substance, but I want Helen and Jay to impress by showing some of the real defining characteristics of the dance!

Charleston is a Jazz Roots dance that shares a lot of its origins with Tap. Some moves are exactly the same, only the focus is on the shape of the body, rather than the rhythm made with the feet. You'd probably be fine, and will enjoy it!

Sorry to partially quote you, but I'm agreeing with your post anyway . Muscle memory has a lot to answer for. . So difficult to activate it, and then once activated, it won't turn off! And I agree about showing the defining characteristics of the dance.